When the oceans rise - General Chat Thread

[Defiance]

Americans aren't so keen on overt racism.

Damn I hate when I see this . i don't want to offend anyone here, but I hate that people in the US call themselves Americans. America is a continent, not a country!!!

I would be American too you know?

I prefer to call you "people from the US" or "Usonians" (sounds funny I know but it's at least acceptable for me).

Now, back on topic, I guess that a lot of discrimination has diverted to Latinos and Arabs (obviously) instead of Blacks you know?

 

[Qu Appelle]

Damn I hate when I see this . i don't want to offend anyone here, but I hate that people in the US call themselves Americans. America is a continent, not a country!!!

Puople have tried to use 'USAers', but it never caught on. *shrug*

 

[Defiance]

^ Haha no wonder why . I believe it's phonetically more difficult to pronounce than Usonian, so that may have been why it didn't catch on.

 

[SiMuLaCrUm]

Now, back on topic, I guess that a lot of discrimination has diverted to Latinos and Arabs (obviously) instead of Blacks you know?

Yes and no. It isn't as bad as it could be. Really it's just the general slightly racist attitude of some people. Since a lot of the Arabs and Indians (from Indian, not the Native Americans) work in gas stations, you get the occasional "Get out of mah country you terrorist! You aren't patriotic!!! My *insert relative here* is fighting what you people are doing back where you come from!!!" etc. but it does not get much worse than that. It's really just a bunch of name-calling...

 

[Defiance]

^ Hmmm ok, but I guess it changes from state to state right?

 

[Naglfar]

Damn I hate when I see this . i don't want to offend anyone here, but I hate that people in the US call themselves Americans. America is a continent, not a country!!!

I would be American too you know?

Americans aren't the only ones who refer to themselves as Americans. EVERYONE calls them Americans. It's not some vanity on their part, that's what they're called. It's like complaining that Germans call themselves Germans. South Americans DO call themselves South Americans, too, you know. And you're certainly American, in the strictist geographical sense, but your nationality refers to your nationality, not geography. Americans are Americans. From the United States of America.

 

[Allfader]

Americans aren't the only ones who refer to themselves as Americans. EVERYONE calls them Americans. It's not some vanity on their part, that's what they're called. It's like complaining that Germans call themselves Germans. South Americans DO call themselves South Americans, too, you know. And you're certainly American, in the strictist geographical sense, but your nationality refers to your nationality, not geography. Americans are Americans. From the United States of America.

They're not 'the americans'. Not everyone calls them Americans also. They're just gringos. I think it's totally wrong call them like that, even "north-americans" is wrong (Mexico and Canada are too). Here usually it's called 'estadounidenses' (I dunno how it is on english, like united statians or something like that) and I think it's the best way to say it.

 

[Rivfadír]

I think it's just fine the way they are. Would you people like to be called Americans instead? Don't you prefer being called whatever nationality you belong to? Get some pride.

 

[Allfader]

I think it's just fine the way they are. Would you people like to be called Americans instead? Don't you prefer being called whatever nationality you belong to? Get some pride.

That's the reason cause some people hate the 'american' title to USA. I don't care being called american but I'm chilean and american too. USA it's not representative for the whole continent on the eyes of the another countries, that's why calling 'american' to USA people is wrong for anyone else.


pd: I'm extremely proud for being Chilean specially for my ancestors.

 

[~Derek~]

At Naglfar: Here in the rural South you are correct, people don't use the word my pals in public at all unless they're black, then it's "Nigga". Yes, the old Generation in the South is definitely racist, both my grandmothers think it's fine for people to be friend with people of other races but not at all to date them, and they believe they're not being racist. So there's things I like about this place and things I dislike, I like the generally friendly attitude but don't like the old Racist, overly religious, and Conservative ways here, I can't really imagine my life without those things being surrounded by it, I'm so used to everyone imposing religion on others and this "If you're not socially coservative you're not in the mainstream" attitude.

 

[SiMuLaCrUm]

^ Hmmm ok, but I guess it changes from state to state right?

To an extent it does.

 

[lordcthulhu]

At Naglfar: Here in the rural South you are correct, people don't use the word my pals in public at all unless they're black, then it's "Nigga". Yes, the old Generation in the South is definitely racist, both my grandmothers think it's fine for people to be friend with people of other races but not at all to date them, and they believe they're not being racist. So there's things I like about this place and things I dislike, I like the generally friendly attitude but don't like the old Racist, overly religious, and Conservative ways here, I can't really imagine my life without those things being surrounded by it, I'm so used to everyone imposing religion on others and this "If you're not socially conservative you're not in the mainstream" attitude.

Though, I'm not a conservative per se (I'm closest to "classical liberal"), I'd prefer the "Western" American conservative brand to the moralistic Christian Southern brand any day. Difference? The Western brand is rooted in economic and personal freedom, while the Southern brand hypocritically uses the word freedom, yet wants to shove their religious beliefs on EVERY social issue...and they will diss anyone who wants to separate religion from the state as Communists.

 

[Naglfar]

They're not 'the americans'. Not everyone calls them Americans also. They're just gringos. I think it's totally wrong call them like that, even "north-americans" is wrong (Mexico and Canada are too). Here usually it's called 'estadounidenses' (I dunno how it is on english, like united statians or something like that) and I think it's the best way to say it.

Don't mean to nitpick... but gringo is a slur. In Spanish both americano and estadounidense is correct, but the more common shorthand is americano. None of my Chilean friends use estadounidense (one of my best friends is Chilean, in fact), in part because it's just cumbersome to say. The use of gringo is far more derogatory, and while it has widespread colloquial usage, probably more so than the other two, it's mostly because of pervasive (and often justified) anti-Americanism in Latin America.

At any rate, my point is that it's kind of nonsensical to object to people from the United States of America calling themselves Americans. Nationality just indicates the nation-state of origin. That there's a broader geographical unit isn't relevant in what you call that nationality (which is troublesome and arbitrary in the case of the American continent, there actually being two continents, just in the same way separating Europe from Asia is arbitrary). People from all sorts of states call themselves North Africans, while there's a state called South Africa that only contains a limited cross section of people that actually do compose the south of Africa.

Nation-states are just full of contradictions like that. There's no reason to be annoyed, that's what happens when you have hundreds of states built around contrived narratives of shared history, language, and culture.

 

[Allfader]

I'm not 'annoyed' by that, in fact I don't care about that. I understand completely the point.

note: Here nobody calls them 'americans'... that's totally wrong. Gringo was derogatory but a couple decades ago, now it's totally common to say gringo with no offensive sense (at least here, I dunno how is it for USA people in general terms, but the gringos that I know don't look offended for that).

 

[Defiance]

Interesting discussion .

I agree with everything Allfader said; however, I am annoyed when people from the US (I guess that'd be one way to say "estadounidenses") call themselves Americans. Everyone in my family is like that (even the conservative part), and it really gets on our nerves.

The problem also is that many Usonians think that the US (for them America) is the whole world. This map pretty much explains it (pretty funny ):

I don't want to offend anyone here, but I've met so many people from the US that I've come to the conclusion that a lot of them think the world is like that. And really, I've seen cases of Usonians that are so ignorant, that for example they come here to CR (a lot of people from the US come here, if you ever plan to send me a PM and we could meet) and they think that they've not left their country! And this is a true story .


It's funny because this "anti-yankee" stuff didn't start growing on me at the Uni (as many people think), but I think it has always been there. Mind you, what I hate is US policies/politics, but not (most of) the people. I've actually been to the US like... let me see... 2 or 3 times. I've gone to Disney and everything , and New York City is certainly one of the most amazing places I've ever been to (Kinokuniya bookstores! That was heaven on Earth for me).

I remember I had just watched a play in Broadway (the one in which the guys strip for money -forgot the name-), and then walking to the flat we had rented, and this huge black guy (with leather jacket and all), comes to me and says: "Hey man do yu want a Ruulex"? It was really funny because my mom was pretty scared . The watch was a fake anyhow.

Anyway, "gringos" is not really derogatory nowadays, unless you say something like (in my country) "jueputas gringos" ("fucking yankees" or something like that) or if you speak in a demeaning way, but the word "gringo" has become so common (at least here) that it's not really disrespectful anymore.

Cheers!

 

[~Derek~]

^That map was funny, did you make it yourself?
When I go to a Mexican restaraunt I expect to be called a gringo behind my back. Also I could order in Spanish there but I don't want to be disrespectful to the workers there, if I did I really would expect to hear the word gringo there.

 

[Rivfadír]

How would ordering in Spanish be disrespectful?

Also, I can see what you people mean, but I can't understand why you care in the least bit that people from the US are called Americans. They are, after all, Americans. I know you are too, but I, at least, would prefer being called a Dane rather than a European. Don't you people like being called Costa Ricans or Chileans or Argentines or whatver rather than (South) Americans? Or Hispanics or whatever people might call you?

You live in a country, a nation. Not a continent. Continents are just arbitrary landmasses. Your nationality is something to be remebered, to be honoured, to be proud of.

 

[Doomtroll]

True, I never understood why people get insulted over those things.
I hate being called British because I'm not British, I'm English.

 

[lordcthulhu]

Yeah, but you're average dunderheaded American wouldn't even be able to tell a Cockney accent from a Welsh, Irish, Cornish, or Scottish accent, so they'll play safe and just call it the British accent.

 

[Defiance]

^That map was funny, did you make it yourself?
When I go to a Mexican restaraunt I expect to be called a gringo behind my back. Also I could order in Spanish there but I don't want to be disrespectful to the workers there, if I did I really would expect to hear the word gringo there.

hehe no I saw it a few years ago and thought it was appropriate to put it here (just google "US World map").

How would ordering in Spanish be disrespectful?

Also, I can see what you people mean, but I can't understand why you care in the least bit that people from the US are called Americans. They are, after all, Americans. I know you are too, but I, at least, would prefer being called a Dane rather than a European. Don't you people like being called Costa Ricans or Chileans or Argentines or whatver rather than (South) Americans? Or Hispanics or whatever people might call you?

You live in a country, a nation. Not a continent. Continents are just arbitrary landmasses. Your nationality is something to be remebered, to be honoured, to be proud of.

Again, the thing is that people from the US think they are the entire continent, not to say the entire world. You go and tell me what you said before when "gringos" come here to CR and think they are in Mexico or Puerto Rico. Or even worse, when they think they haven't left the US. You go and tell me that again when you live in a US-dependent economy like CR. Also add that CR, unlike the rest of Central-America, has been very lucky concerning development (we're still 3rd world, but doing much better than the other Central-American countries). Go ask a Nicaraguan what they think about the "gringos," and then you'll see what bashing yankees is all about .