Who seriously can believe in bible?

[NeverIsForever]

Apologies if this should have been a new thread, but I figured there's at least 2 on religion already so I'll ask this here. Are you guys familiar with the Gospel of Judas? I'm curious to people's thoughts on this--its authenticity, ramifications for the Christian church, etc.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/_pdf/GospelofJudas.pdf?fs=www7.nationalgeographic.com&fs=magma.nationalgeographic.com

 

[WNxScythe]

First off I know the distinction between relationship and religion that Christians make. I was a Pentecostal for years before converting to Eastern Orthodoxy. Both groups (though the latter is far more traditional and structured) emphasize a personal relationship with Christ. Secondly I never became an atheist. I'm undecided, I just don't know. My beliefs are closest to deism right now. Lastly I'm well aware of the belief common amongst Christians that "well you were never really a true Christian to begin with because once you've experienced God you could never possbily leave him". This is bollocks. I know what I believed and I know others who were just as devout if not more so who are no longer believers. I think Christians resort to this argument because it makes them feel more secure in their beliefs (afterall if someone else was a true Christian and lost their faith what about me?).

Actually Christians resort to this argument because it is one of the fundamental beliefs in biblical theology. The bible is absolutely littered with verses that indicate that God chooses us, not vice versa. Therefore, if you were 'chosen' by God, who declares himself to be infinitely faithful, you cannot turn away and 'lose' your faith, it's not yours to give up in the first place.

That's not to say , however, that we're all mindless robots dumbly following pre-programmed orders. I believe God intermingles pre-destination and personal choice in a way we can't comprehend to bring glory to himself (his chief goal).

So in my mind you're either

a) Still a Christian, even if don't consider yourself one (because you now question the validity of the scriptures)

OR

b) Never were 'chosen' and saved, but went through a period of "religiosity" much like the seeds that were strangled by weeds in the parable of the sower (not trying to offend you here btw, please don't take it personally!)

There are however, plenty of Christians who would disagree with me and say you can lose your faith. I have plenty of verses though to back up my -Calvinist- point of view if you're interested.

 

[Silver Incubus]

No, just don't judge Christianity by the looking at the bible.

I'm sorry, and certainly no offense is meant, but that is the stupidest statement I have ever heard a christian say about christianity.

NO BIBLE, NO CHRISTIANITY.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Actually Christians resort to this argument because it is one of the fundamental beliefs in biblical theology. The bible is absolutely littered with verses that indicate that God chooses us, not vice versa. Therefore, if you were 'chosen' by God, who declares himself to be infinitely faithful, you cannot turn away and 'lose' your faith, it's not yours to give up in the first place.

That's not to say , however, that we're all mindless robots dumbly following pre-programmed orders. I believe God intermingles pre-destination and personal choice in a way we can't comprehend to bring glory to himself (his chief goal).

So in my mind you're either

a) Still a Christian, even if don't consider yourself one (because you now question the validity of the scriptures)

OR

b) Never were 'chosen' and saved, but went through a period of "religiosity" much like the seeds that were strangled by weeds in the parable of the sower (not trying to offend you here btw, please don't take it personally!)

There are however, plenty of Christians who would disagree with me and say you can lose your faith. I have plenty of verses though to back up my -Calvinist- point of view if you're interested.

So IF I feel like God(in one form or another) has chosen me, but I am not Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Bhuddist, Hindu, New Age, Mormon, then what exactly would that mean?

 

[Horus]

So IF I feel like God(in one form or another) has chosen me, but I am not Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Bhuddist, Hindu, New Age, Mormon, then what exactly would that mean?

I can't agree with that more.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Actually Christians resort to this argument because it is one of the fundamental beliefs in biblical theology. The bible is absolutely littered with verses that indicate that God chooses us, not vice versa. Therefore, if you were 'chosen' by God, who declares himself to be infinitely faithful, you cannot turn away and 'lose' your faith, it's not yours to give up in the first place.

That's not to say , however, that we're all mindless robots dumbly following pre-programmed orders. I believe God intermingles pre-destination and personal choice in a way we can't comprehend to bring glory to himself (his chief goal).

So in my mind you're either

a) Still a Christian, even if don't consider yourself one (because you now question the validity of the scriptures)

OR

b) Never were 'chosen' and saved, but went through a period of "religiosity" much like the seeds that were strangled by weeds in the parable of the sower (not trying to offend you here btw, please don't take it personally!)

There are however, plenty of Christians who would disagree with me and say you can lose your faith. I have plenty of verses though to back up my -Calvinist- point of view if you're interested.

I was a Calvinsit briefly and am well aware of the arsenal of verses used by them to justify their beliefs. In fact there are verses which do indicate some of the beliefs of TULIP. However there are loads which clearly contradict it, which of course is only further proof that the bible contradicts itself on important theological issues and hence is not the divinely inspired word of God.

 

[Horus]

And which also comes back to the subject of the Bible being a collection of stories which are appealing to readers, and thats the only reason they were chosen to be put in the Bible. (And my example of the Apocalypses of John and Peter)

 

[Tongue_Ring]

OK but to the outsider looking into Christianity, someone saying "I know Christianity is true because I'm guided by God" is not at all convincing when you have millions of people in the same religion claiming the same thing and yet are contradicting each other not to mention millions of other non-Christians claiming the same thing and not believing in Christianity at all. Which only makes outsiders think "well none of them are guided by God, they are all just mistaking their feelings for divine guidance". So in answer to my original question "why the Judeo-Christian God" your answer falls woefully short.

so your argument seems to be basically that if someone says that they "feel" their "God" being "inside" them, then what they are actually experiencing is a form of "multiple personality disorder" and that religion=psychosis

and i totally agree with you

 

[Thoth-Amon]

so your argument seems to be basically that if someone says that they "feel" their "God" being "inside" them, then what they are actually experiencing is a form of "multiple personality disorder" and that religion=psychosis

and i totally agree with you

Not multiple personality disorder, merely a mild form of self-delusion.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I had been thinking more about some of the biggest hypocracy in the bible being that God gives Moses the Ten Commandments one of which says thou shall not kill, but yet we have this same God Killing masses of people, smiting the wicked and so on. I would say that should be there biggest Red flag of them all. Or is God suppose to be one of these do as i say not as I do kind of thing?

 

[proglodite]

There are however, plenty of Christians who would disagree with me and say you can lose your faith. I have plenty of verses though to back up my -Calvinist- point of view if you're interested.

Yep, strongly disagree. Verses would be good - from Thoth-Amon too if you don't mind.

NO BIBLE, NO CHRISTIANITY.

If the bible was the focus, it'd be called biblianity.

 

[Silver Incubus]

Then tell me where the stories and teachings of CHRIST whom CHRISTIANITY is based is found. Oh I think I know, the bible. Is it really that hard to see?

 

[Horus]

Yep, strongly disagree. Verses would be good - from Thoth-Amon too if you don't mind.

If you're gonna quote one verse from the bible, quote more to justify that you're not taking your quote out of context, just so you can win your argument. Nowhere in the bible does it say that you can take the quotes from the bible and take them out of context, just to get your own completely different point across.

 

[Thoth-Amon]

Then tell me where the stories and teachings of CHRIST whom CHRISTIANITY is based is found. Oh I think I know, the bible. Is it really that hard to see?

Thank you.

 

[proglodite]

Alternatively, interact with Christ himself, rather than relying on the bible...

 

[Tongue_Ring]

I had been thinking more about some of the biggest hypocracy in the bible being that God gives Moses the Ten Commandments one of which says thou shall not kill, but yet we have this same God Killing masses of people, smiting the wicked and so on. I would say that should be there biggest Red flag of them all. Or is God suppose to be one of these do as i say not as I do kind of thing?

actually, i think you actually just described the creation of the cliche'd phrase "do as i say, not as i do"

If you're gonna quote one verse from the bible, quote more to justify that you're not taking your quote out of context, just so you can win your argument. Nowhere in the bible does it say that you can take the quotes from the bible and take them out of context, just to get your own completely different point across.

there are a lot of preachers do this "taking a quote out of context" thing every single time they do a sermon

Alternatively, interact with Christ himself, rather than relying on the bible...

if a person claims to be interacting with "Jesus Christ" himself [as opposed to reading the bible] i would say he's suffering from multiple personality disorder

 

[hadesdaman]

I personally don't believe, but I have read some very interesting scientific evidence about porroving god exists. I'll have to dig out the link and post it.

But a thought: We don't believe in God, but we all believe are on a rock spinning in the middle of a vacuum, and we're kept in place by an invisible force we can't touch or see. And we also believe that somehow the universie is a repeating cycle, even when all the hydrogen (the fuel of the universe) is being burnt out.

And also, we believe that we got here HOW? That the universe popped into being by some magical effect? Or by what? The answer for many people is God, much the same as the answer for many to people to is science.

Peace.

 

[Horus]

Or the answer to the question could very well be that the question isn't meant to be answered.

 

[Tongue_Ring]

Or the answer to the question could very well be that the question isn't meant to be answered.

that would make sense if you assumed there were multiple deities instead of just one, but monotheism always has some sort of "creation story" attached to it

 

[Thoth-Amon]

that would make sense if you assumed there were multiple deities instead of just one, but monotheism always has some sort of "creation story" attached to it

so do polytheistic mythologies