Why melodic death?

[SADUDE]

OK this is a question that I have contemplated about melodic death lately: What and why is it called melodic? I know some fag will probably say why is it called death metal. So I will bring attention to that now, and preemptively ruin your fun. But seriously, nearly all most music is melodic by nature. Of course African Bongo music is an exception, but primates playing in the mud is hardly of interest to me. It is like saying melodic, melodic music. The melodic is implied. So, why is it being stated twice? It is not like death metal is not melodic. Death metal itself just tends to be more dissonant in it's choice of melody. A name is a name, which matters not. But, melodic death metal is a horrible description, and serves as nothing more than a name; although it could convince you otherwise. Thoughts on the subject?

 

[Tavaron]

Because it is more melodic than normal death metal.

Was it that hard?

 

[SADUDE]

Because it is more melodic than normal death metal.

Was it that hard?

It is never hard to give a shitty answer. You can not be more melodic. If so I would like a better explanation. It is more consonant than normal death. I anticipated this response and forgot to deal with it ahead of time.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

i guess it all depends on how you view "melodic". you seem to have a more analytical view on melody and musical concepts, while most people determine the degree of melody (or lack thereof) by the amount of dissonance or the "ugliness" of the music.

 

[SculptedCold]

What do you mean why? Who cares? It's simply an obvious aesthetic tag that no-one bothered being semantically picky about when coining it. Your threads are pointless SADUDE, the fact that you're obnoxious on top of it hardly makes them hotspots for wonderfully interesting conversation.

 

[SADUDE]

What do you mean why? Who cares? It's simply an obvious aesthetic tag that no-one bothered being semantically picky about when coining it. Your threads are pointless SADUDE, the fact that you're obnoxious on top of it hardly makes them hotspots for wonderfully interesting conversation.

No, not why. Why not? Surely it is just as unimportant as every other thread on here. I hate to throw around the word pretentious. I am just clarifying because I feel like I use the damn thing in every post. But the word definitly applies to you. You are such a pseudo-intellectual. Although I wouldn'y say that I am indeed intellectual. But you pretend to be. You talk about things and try to examine things until it reaches a certain point, and then you cop out. You have used semantics as one of these aforementioned cop outs now at least more than once. How about you actually learn a thing or two about it. I recommend Science and Sanity by Korzybski. Language in Thought and Action by Hayakawa is decent as well. When you are done being ignorant and if you still have an interest in my threads(which your reading and replying to implies) come back, and I would be glad to have a decent conversation. Thats where reading mudvayne's lyrics gets you. They have few songs with any lyrical decency. Know Forever being one of them. Most of them are nothing more than a profanity contest in which they have lost to ICP(whom I hate). I remember hearing somewhere that they(ICP) have a song that says fuck ninety-something times. That of course is a lot more than the ten times in the average Vayne song. So quote them all you like.
​

I am an obnoxious asshole. You got me there, and I won't deny it. Most of the time I do it in humor, because that seems to be the most you can get from the forums besides some band recommendations. Others who do the same, and usually to a more annoying degree, do it for the same reason. Because people like you are retarded enough to take some person posting under an internet alias seriously. I actually want to have a decent discussion. If I can't get that, why not fuck around and get a laugh?​

 

[Destroyer Of Orden]

Hmmm, well in answer to the question... in my mind, death metal is not innately meloic... I will use a recent band, Hate Eternal as a prime example... Talented band, very technical, very skilled... but not melodic... They are straightforward and brutal... Much of the melodic death metal of today and the early ninetees was much th same, with a signifigant difference: the introduction of melody. The lead riffs were much more prominant, often times many solos and prominant lead riffs that went along side the dissonant riffs of rythm death... Many of these melodic eath bands evolved over their careers in many ways, most of them becoming more and more inclined to use MANY melodies and less and less of the death metal influences, and inevitably it evolved into a genre of it's own that has distinct eath metal roots but a completely new style of it's own... this style has been exploited in recent years and overone, making the genre 80% clones, but this happens with EVERY genre of music. Now, I believe that things can be more or less melodic. It depends on the degree and how frequent it is used... I don't know if everyone can agree ith that, but as in all music there is varying degrees of distortion, chaos and order and melody... It all depends on how it is written. I hope this helped in some way

 

[SADUDE]

Hmmm, well in answer to the question... in my mind, death metal is not innately meloic... I will use a recent band, Hate Eternal as a prime example... Talented band, very technical, very skilled... but not melodic... They are straightforward and brutal... Much of the melodic death metal of today and the early ninetees was much th same, with a signifigant difference: the introduction of melody. The lead riffs were much more prominant, often times many solos and prominant lead riffs that went along side the dissonant riffs of rythm death... Many of these melodic eath bands evolved over their careers in many ways, most of them becoming more and more inclined to use MANY melodies and less and less of the death metal influences, and inevitably it evolved into a genre of it's own that has distinct eath metal roots but a completely new style of it's own... this style has been exploited in recent years and overone, making the genre 80% clones, but this happens with EVERY genre of music. Now, I believe that things can be more or less melodic. It depends on the degree and how frequent it is used... I don't know if everyone can agree ith that, but as in all music there is varying degrees of distortion, chaos and order and melody... It all depends on how it is written. I hope this helped in some way

I will not criticize your example although I detest that band because you are the first to contribute. Even Hate Eternal's riffs are melodic. I wanted to say I can't even hear the riff changes or song changes. To me it sounds like one long song until the cd stops. Sorry, I really am. But they are melodic. Just a different type. A melody in itself is a theme or motive that is repeated. Once you have a sequence of changing pitches played in whatever rhythm, it is for the most part a melody. If what Stravinsky, and Schoenberg did is melodic than metal even the most dissonant distorted death metal must be as well.​

Now If someone were to argue that opeth were harmonic death metal; that may be a worthy argument with justification. Opeth make use of harmony that is more than two parts quite often. Most death metal does not. THat would make them more harmonic I guess. Therefore, I will henceforth join the bandwagon of creating sub-genres. I introduce to you the New Wave Of Harmonic Death Metal. NWOHDM for short. ​

 

[Destroyer Of Orden]

Of course you have a worthy point, I do not disagree with you at all... However, I think that, as with all things people need to have boundaries... in ever aspect of our lives... In order to distiinguish one taste from another, there has to be sub-genres of everything... Metal is metal in my mind. Death metal is black metal is gothic metal is havy metal is thrash metal... But people need to break things down to better customize their ways of living and their personal tstes... I must say, a fan of Suffocation will probably not be a great fan of In Flames - Reroute to Remain... That is considered Melodic Death... Suffocation is death... I suppose melodic death is just another sub-genre of death metal as eath metal is a sub-genre of metal as a whole, or an evolved (de) form of thrash.... In my mind it does not matter whether or not there is more or less melody or the same, but due to the difference in sound and style, melodic death has becomne a genre that is called meloic because it's melodies are a bit more accessible than a band such as Origin... it's another form of commercialization to help more people distinguish the fact that not all kinds of death metal is the same... Make any form of sense

 

[SADUDE]

I do understand the use of genres. Melodic Death works as good as any other name in that. Melodic is an adjective in this case though. Like a short term for saying a melodic type of death metal. The label means nothing. But when people confuse the label with a description of it's contents thats when we have problems. This happens all day long here on UM. I just wanted to point this out to people. I am not trying to play Jesusor anything. Melody is divided into consonance and dissoance. People who don't like consonance probably should say that instead of not liking melody.

 

[Destroyer Of Orden]

Well I understand where your coming from, buta lot of time it all boils down to spelling things out for people, and a lot of time without labels some people are just unable to understand anything in any media

 

[Destroyer Of Orden]

Personally, I do not understand it myself, but in the end, people are going to say what they say, and many times you jsut gotta nod and take it in stride... I oftentimes must use the genres in orer to describe certain abnds to certain people... it's all about adapting, how you take things, and when you use them... though i'm sure the points you have made in the thread will make sense to a lot of people, and none to others

 

[SADUDE]

I wasn't trying to win an arguement with you. Winning an argument is pointless. I appreciate your willingness to discuss this with an open mind.

 

[Destroyer Of Orden]

OF course, I know there was no argument.. I was just elaborating on the point.. but I am on the same page as you in this respect.. We'll just have to see what others think!

 

[Naggamanteh]

Sadude, call me fag all you want, but "Why is it called death metal?" is in many cases a very legitimate question. Many of the bands under the label "melodic death" sound like heavy metal with harsh vocals. A more appropriate question would have been "Why isn't Melodic Death called Heavy Metal with Harsh vocals?"

 

[Life Sucks]

The riffs are more pleasing to the ear or easier on the ears than real death metal.

 

[lord667]

OK this is a question that I have contemplated about melodic death lately: What and why is it called melodic? I know some fag will probably say why is it called death metal. So I will bring attention to that now, and preemptively ruin your fun. But seriously, nearly all most music is melodic by nature. Of course African Bongo music is an exception, but primates playing in the mud is hardly of interest to me. It is like saying melodic, melodic music. The melodic is implied. So, why is it being stated twice? It is not like death metal is not melodic. Death metal itself just tends to be more dissonant in it's choice of melody. A name is a name, which matters not. But, melodic death metal is a horrible description, and serves as nothing more than a name; although it could convince you otherwise. Thoughts on the subject?

You aren't using the same meaning of "melodic" as everyone else. When someone says "melodic death", they are using "melody" in the sense of "a sweet or agreeable succession or arrangement of sounds" [Webster's, "melody" 1] where you're trying to apply the sense of "a rhythmic succession of single tones organized as an aesthetic whole" [Webster's, "melody" 2a]. In the first sense, melo-death is certainly more melodic than normal death.

Before you whip out your Pedant-O-Matic again, let me further explain that I am using "more melodic" in - again - its commoner sense. You are right at a strict logical level that one tune cannot be "more melodic" than another, since "melodic" strictly implies "fully melodic". However, the common meaning is "closer to fully melodic", that is to say, containing more of the elements that one would expect in a fully "melodic" tune. This is a fairly widespread type of construction - consider apparently illogical phrases like "bluer" (closer to RGB<0,0,255>) or "more unique" (bearing fewer similarities to anything else within the universe of discourse).

 

[SculptedCold]

No, not why. Why not? Surely it is just as unimportant as every other thread on here. I hate to throw around the word pretentious. I am just clarifying because I feel like I use the damn thing in every post. But the word definitly applies to you. You are such a pseudo-intellectual. Although I wouldn'y say that I am indeed intellectual. But you pretend to be. You talk about things and try to examine things until it reaches a certain point, and then you cop out. You have used semantics as one of these aforementioned cop outs now at least more than once. How about you actually learn a thing or two about it. I recommend Science and Sanity by Korzybski. Language in Thought and Action by Hayakawa is decent as well. When you are done being ignorant and if you still have an interest in my threads(which your reading and replying to implies) come back, and I would be glad to have a decent conversation. Thats where reading mudvayne's lyrics gets you. They have few songs with any lyrical decency. Know Forever being one of them. Most of them are nothing more than a profanity contest in which they have lost to ICP(whom I hate). I remember hearing somewhere that they(ICP) have a song that says fuck ninety-something times. That of course is a lot more than the ten times in the average Vayne song. So quote them all you like.


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I am an obnoxious asshole. You got me there, and I won't deny it. Most of the time I do it in humor, because that seems to be the most you can get from the forums besides some band recommendations. Others who do the same, and usually to a more annoying degree, do it for the same reason. Because people like you are retarded enough to take some person posting under an internet alias seriously. I actually want to have a decent discussion. If I can't get that, why not fuck around and get a laugh?​

You're damn right i'm an ignorant pseduo-intellectual (and very ignorant I might add), but i'm interested in hearing what is inherently wrong with that when most of the time I really only offer my opinions anyway, and state them as such. My cop-outs from the few intensive discussions I have participated in result both from my being not bothered about following the conversation anymore and from realising that the limitations of my ignorance prohibit me from offering any more relevant conversation anyway. Your apparent modesty concerning your own intellectual capacities and your insult of pretentiousness towards me is vainly hypocritical when you're clearly attacking me from such an obviously lofty position, which is both justified and not. To clarify some of your silly pokes though, be assured that I read a lot more than just Mudvayne's lyrics, and they appeal to me primarily as an emotional aesthetic as opposed to anything offering intellectual quality. I decline your reading recommendations also, because i'm not interested in the technical or philosophical issues of semantics or their technological implications, and because my own studies fill my time adequately.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

OK this is a question that I have contemplated about melodic death lately: What and why is it called melodic? I know some fag will probably say why is it called death metal. So I will bring attention to that now, and preemptively ruin your fun. But seriously, nearly all most music is melodic by nature.

While most death metal IS at least technically melodic (though some of the more brutal contemporary bands often use something near to a truly atonal compositional style, and, as such, are not even technically "melodic"), the more traditional ("American") death metal style often approaches ambient music at high bpm and decibel levels. The result is that their melodies are not articulated in a fashion where they are comprehensible as such, and listeners apprehend the music almost as pure rhythm.

 

[forest of october]

Why do we call Death Metal "Death Metal"? No one died, no one is going to die, nor is it in any way, shape or form "metal", yet, we call it Death Metal nonetheless. Why is Black Metal "Black Metal"? I see no negros, or metal anywhere within Black Metal (okay ya there are a couple black guys in certain BM bands but fuck off), what I'm getting at here is, although your question is technically a good one, its annoying and you already know the answer to it. Now that we all know you know the true definition of what melody is, and that you're no doubt the son of god, please, don't be annoying for annoying's sake.