2008 Political debate thread

[fullnelson]

From an objective viewpoint, I would say McCain won last night's debate.

 

[Iced Dog]

Religion, family and background are practically insignificant when choosing a good Prime Minister.

Sounds good to me I'm not even sure MOST Americans truly care about that stuff over what really matters, but it's certainly played up in the media quite a bit.

 

[Beelzebub]

Only a tool after others have been...seems to work here...at least you think it works for you

What?

Don't give a shit huh.:Smug: Fuckin' hypocritic tool.

Well while everyone was on the topic I guessed it was open for discussion? I always thought that was how conversations worked; it's possible to talk about something you don't particularly care about.

RE: Mark, I just think that it's an example of frivolous materialism to the extreme. Cindy McCain's wardrobe could buy out all the meth in Wasilla.

Which one applies?

The Jones Act (Philippines) was a 1916 statute sponsored by U.S. Representative William Atkinson Jones that provided the Philippine Islands a more autonomous government to prepare the territory for independence.
The Jones-Shafroth Act or Jones Act (Puerto Rico) was a 1917 statute sponsored by Representative William Atkinson Jones, which concerned the government of Puerto Rico and conferred U.S. citizenship on Puerto Ricans.

If you're talking about the Merchant Marine Act of 1920. It's in relation to lost jobs & increased costs in shipping. We probably build only 1% or less of the world's commercial ships...which at one time was a big industry for us...other countries don't have the restraints on them that the Act puts on our maritime industry. Plus the lack of U.S. ships in international shipping adds costs to moving products. Those costs are added to the products we buy. There apparently is a stranglehold on this industry...which if loosened & allowed to grow...would be good for the economy.

If you read my post on the previous page it would be the second one that I was talking about, and rebuts what you just said.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Is this the one you're talking about, Yas?

Jones Act
Merchant Seaman Protection and Relief 46 USCS Appx § 688 (2002) Title 46. Appendix. Shipping Chapter 18.
(a) Application of railway employee statutes; jurisdiction. Any seaman who shall suffer personal injury in the course of his employment may, at his election, maintain an action for damages at law, with the right of trial by jury, and in such action all statutes of the United States modifying or extending the common-law right or remedy in cases of personal injury to railway employees shall apply; and in case of the death of any seaman as a result of any such personal injury the personal representative of such seaman may maintain an action for damages at law with the right of trial by jury, and in such action all statutes of the United States conferring or regulating the right of action for death in the case of railway employees shall be applicable. Jurisdiction in such actions shall be under the court of the district in which the defendant employer resides or in which his principal office is located.

(b) Limitation for certain aliens; applicability in lieu of other remedy.

(1) No action may be maintained under subsection (a) or under any other maritime law of the United States for maintenance and cure or for damages for the injury or death of a person who was not a citizen or permanent resident alien of the United States at the time of the incident giving rise to the action, if the incident occurred—

(A) while that person was in the employ of an enterprise engaged in the exploration, development, or production of offshore mineral or energy resources--including but not limited to drilling, mapping, surveying, diving, pipelaying, maintaining, repairing, constructing, or transporting supplies, equipment or personnel, but not including transporting those resources by a vessel constructed or adapted primarily to carry oil in bulk in the cargo spaces; and

(B) in the territorial waters or waters overlaying the continental shelf of a nation other than the United States, its territories, or possessions. As used in this paragraph, the term "continental shelf" has the meaning stated in Article I of the 1958 Convention on the Continental Shelf.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection shall not be applicable if the person bringing the action establishes that no remedy was available to that person—

(A) under the laws of the nation asserting jurisdiction over the area in which the incident occurred; or

(B) under the laws of the nation in which, at the time of the incident, the person for whose injury or death a remedy is sought maintained citizenship or residency.

Is there something in there that says dock workers (porters, for Swabs ) can only be Americans? I see it as only applying injury/death protection to Americans on the docks. Am I wrong? I need to go back and read your post...

 

[_Wes]

Yeah, I think it's long overdue, though I'm curious about the specifics. I look at it as a safety net if your employer doesn't offer benefits...better than going bankrupt over medical bills, or being refused coverage because, shock, you're actually sick and need treatment. Obama said nobody would be turned down due to pre-existing conditions, and that it would basically be the same healthcare that members of Congress get...whatever that is, I'm sure it decent.

I'm not sure what the federal health care is - but Obama's plan is not as all-encompasing as some would have you believe. FWIU - it will only cover kids under 18 who's parents don't have insurance. Here in Illinois - you are already covered under the state - there are no kids in Ill who are turned down for Medicaid (the state health plan) if their parents can't afford health care.

BTW - no one in the US is turned down at the ER if they don't have coverage - if they were - their surviving family members would own the hospital after the lawsuit was won - that is illegal in the US. You cannot turn down someone for care based on ability to pay. period.

BTW - Again - sorry, this health care stuff gets me going. . . I have a full time job - and I have decent benefits. I have never had a full time job and not had health care. This country's health-care is the best in the world. My 2 1/2 year old daughter has had 3 open heart surgeries, and wears a pace maker - all done within 20 minutes of my home. OSF Children's Hopsital - where we receive all of her care - is the best. And when we were there in the hospital - we were treated no different (with health care) than the other kids there on the unit (The KICU - kids Intensive Care) that had medicaid. All treated very well.

Personally I think that the way that a candidates religion, background and family are more important to American voters, than intelligence, policies and ideaology. Is a serious problem.

One the differences I've noticed between UK and US politics (not saying UK politics is great at all though ) is that the candidates actual ideas (ie: What they are actually going to do in a position of power), intelligence and political ability is the basis for most voters decisions. Religion, family and background are practically insignificant when choosing a good Prime Minister.

Well - I don't know about the media in the UK - but if you think that what you read in the media in the US is a fair representation of what the public thinks -you are way off base. To say we have a media elite - is almost laughable. They have about as much insight into what "everyday Americans" think - as the politicians do.
No one I know personally cares at all about politicians - other than what policies they are going to inact, what their political beliefs are - and personally, only if they have sound judgement or are total wankers - - > which is where most politicians fall, IMO.

Sounds good to me I'm not even sure MOST Americans truly care about that stuff over what really matters, but it's certainly played up in the media quite a bit.

Bingo. We don't care.

The media is completely out of touch.

BTW - this is a great thread to read! Glad to see so many different viewpoints.

 

[Kenneth R.]

so, going by my list, we're still on target by my predictions. I keep calling them, people keep saying "you're bonkers" and it just keeps happening. durr.

 

[Iced Dog]

So this terrorist/fear/hate mongering angle the McCain campaign has been going for the last week is really starting to backfire...to the point where McCain twice today in the same rally was booed for calling Obama a decent guy, and had to correct an ignorant woman that Barack is, actually, NOT an arab

 

[Phanto]

I think McCain is starting to realize what racist idiots he has under his flag.

 

[Beelzebub]

His most fervent supporters just might lose the election for him. I saw stuff on TV where his supporters would scream stuff like "terrorist!" and "kill him!" etc.

 

[Ascension]

that Barack is, actually, NOT an arab

Maybe not, but...

I'm just sayin...

 

[noble savage]

So, because he dressed like that (Perhaps only once), he is a Muslim? I put on my old girlfriend's brother's gangster wear once, I bet people will now think I'm secretly black if a photo where to surface.

I don't really like the guy that much, but holy jumping shit balls you have an irrational fear of B. Hussein Obama!

 

[Ascension]

I put on my old girlfriend's brother's gangster wear once, I bet people will now think I'm secretly black if a photo where to surface.

Post like that is useless without pics.

I don't really like the guy that much, but holy jumping shit balls you have an irrational fear of B. Hussein Obama!

I don't fear anyone that I'm pretty sure I can kick their ass. That's been circulating in emails for awhile...so l just put it out there...what you make of it is your business.

But it does put things in perspective.

 

[Meedleyx10]

Well, you just reached a new plateau in your ridiculously ignorant logic. The "oh yeah, well I can kick his ass" argument is the surest way to fail in any attempt at sounnding reasonable.

 

[Beelzebub]

OBAMA IS ONE LETTER AWAY FROM OSAMA SO HE'S A TERRORIST!

BIDEN IS ONE LETTER AWAY FROM BIDET SO YOU CAN WASH YOUR ASS WITH HIM!

 

[Kenneth R.]

Maybe not, but...

I'm just sayin...

Come back with a high school education and we'll talk.

 

[Ascension]

The "oh yeah, well I can kick his ass" argument is the surest way to fail in any attempt at sounnding reasonable.

Come back with a high school education and we'll talk.

You can attack me all you want...but it's easy to see the veiled attempts to defend the "magic negro". I'm just putting stuff up that exists...not making a thing up...and it gets under your skin...hmmm LOL. Grow up & get off the koolaid.

 

[Meedleyx10]

So now you have to play the race card? Seriously dude... (sorry mods), grow a fucking brain. Oddly enough, I'm fairly certain I wont be voting for Obama. The thing is, I'm not a fan of ignorant bullshit on either side of the political fence...or just ignorant bullshit in general. The only point you're proving with your endless stream of bullshit is ours: that you're an ignorant tool. People like you make me wish there was some sort of test people had to take before they could vote, because as you have shown us all, wisdom and the ability to use logic and reason do not come with age.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

So... when are people going to stop worrying about background (omg Osama wasn't raised as a christian and doesn't have a proud military photo! How can we have him in the white house?) and start worrying about if we agree with their politics or not? Jesus, next time i hear someone go "BUT BARACK'S MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!!" i will lose complete faith in this country and side with the terrorists. I'm not fucking kidding. If you are really that stupid to go "oh shit he's wearing muslim garb and has a name similar to a known terrorist", you deserve to be living in a police state run by the taliban because your ignorance is so great that you are a waste to the free world.

Let me clarify and say that I'm not at all saying that you have to support Obama or you're stupid. That's not it. Plenty of intelligent people support McCain, as well as support third party candidates. this isn't a question of who you support... it's a matter of "are you really that stupid to use that as your reason for NOT voting for someone"? McCain whistles his "s"s. I hate that, he's probably whistling in code to his terrorist buddies! No. Just come up with legitimate reasons to dislike Obama (how about "I don't think his Iraq exit plan will be effective and will only cause greater problems in the middle east" for one?) rather than some stupid bullshit about his name. Otherwise, I (nor anyone else with even a random thought in their head) will have no respect and you deserve to live in the world you create for yourself. Just don't create that world for me to live in. I want to choose a world that isn't so fucking shitty.

 

[Swabs]

So... when are people going to stop worrying about background (omg Osama wasn't raised as a christian and doesn't have a proud military photo! How can we have him in the white house?) and start worrying about if we agree with their politics or not? Jesus, next time i hear someone go "BUT BARACK'S MIDDLE NAME IS HUSSEIN!!!" i will lose complete faith in this country and side with the terrorists. I'm not fucking kidding. If you are really that stupid to go "oh shit he's wearing muslim garb and has a name similar to a known terrorist", you deserve to be living in a police state run by the taliban because your ignorance is so great that you are a waste to the free world.

Let me clarify and say that I'm not at all saying that you have to support Obama or you're stupid. That's not it. Plenty of intelligent people support McCain, as well as support third party candidates. this isn't a question of who you support... it's a matter of "are you really that stupid to use that as your reason for NOT voting for someone"? McCain whistles his "s"s. I hate that, he's probably whistling in code to his terrorist buddies! No. Just come up with legitimate reasons to dislike Obama (how about "I don't think his Iraq exit plan will be effective and will only cause greater problems in the middle east" for one?) rather than some stupid bullshit about his name. Otherwise, I (nor anyone else with even a random thought in their head) will have no respect and you deserve to live in the world you create for yourself. Just don't create that world for me to live in. I want to choose a world that isn't so fucking shitty.

This.

 

[Kenneth R.]

You can attack me all you want...but it's easy to see the veiled attempts to defend the "magic negro". I'm just putting stuff up that exists...not making a thing up...and it gets under your skin...hmmm LOL. Grow up & get off the koolaid.

Quick recap:

1. Spelling errors.
2. Racism.
3. Begging the question.
4. Nonsequitor.
5. A->B therefore C fallacy.
6. Continued denial.
7. Failure to address criticism with evidential argument.