2008 Political debate thread

[Proghead3]

Sarah "the gaffe machine" Palin is back on the attack.

The first clip is near and dear to my heart, as I got my undergraduate degree in Biology. Someone forgot to tell Sarah that much genetic research is done on fruit flies, possibly even a plurality.



Here it is apparent she hasn't read the Constitution and/or passed a high school Civics course. Maybe she was absent that day.



What was John McCain thinking?!

 

[noble savage]

Proghead, I just saw that video on Palin dismissing that very important aspect of genetic research this morning and I almost puked up my coffee. That ignorant excuse for a women does not belong in office. This has nothing to do with the party she belongs to, this is simply based on the fact that someone oozing with such ignorance does not have a right to run this nation. Here I was under the impression that women would do a whole lot better of a job running this country than men are capable of!

Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A.
Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude

Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)


John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism

Give me a fucking break.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Give me a fucking break.

Yeah, give *ME* a fucking break. What irritates you about those numbers/degrees? Could YOU pass through the US Naval Academy?
Is it Palin's choice of study, or # of semesters? Is a physics or a law degree more important than a journalism degree? What really irritates me about your observations is that you are connecting class rank + type of degree to a person's ability to lead a country. A piece of "paper" with fancy calligraphy does not make a good leader, or a decent person. The lack of that piece of paper does not not disqualify a person from being a good person, or a good leader. Please correct me if I'm wrong about my assumptions here....

 

[Proghead3]

Yeah, give *ME* a fucking break. What irritates you about those numbers/degrees? Could YOU pass through the US Naval Academy?
Is it Palin's choice of study, or # of semesters? Is a physics or a law degree more important than a journalism degree? What really irritates me about your observations is that you are connecting class rank + type of degree to a person's ability to lead a country. A piece of "paper" with fancy calligraphy does not make a good leader, or a decent person. The lack of that piece of paper does not not disqualify a person from being a good person, or a good leader. Please correct me if I'm wrong about my assumptions here....

Your assumptions are wrong. We live in an incredibly complex world, and we need our leaders to be scholarly and supremely curious.

Take the classic example of John McCain saying "we will be welcomed as liberators [in Iraq]." He was dead wrong about that and many thousands of people, including both Iraqi civilians and US troops, died because of the lack of knowledge/scholarship espoused by that shared mindset. Someone with a modest amount of information about Middle Eastern politics could identify that destabilizing a tense region would ignite a faction war. If we had leaders who were curious about the way reality works, that disaster could have been avoided.

But hey, vote however you want. You can vote for the candidate you'd rather have a beer with, and I'll vote for the Harvard Law graduate. If your candidate wins and things go awry you can rest assured as your choice is a "good person."

I'm sick of anti-intellectualism in America. A degree from Harvard Law is more than just a "piece of paper."

 

[SilentRealm]

re" sarah palin - omg what a bimbo!!! i think pamela anderson would do a better job as a presidential running mate

and LOL @ those hicks

 

[noble savage]

Yeah, give *ME* a fucking break. What irritates you about those numbers/degrees? Could YOU pass through the US Naval Academy?
Is it Palin's choice of study, or # of semesters? Is a physics or a law degree more important than a journalism degree? What really irritates me about your observations is that you are connecting class rank + type of degree to a person's ability to lead a country. A piece of "paper" with fancy calligraphy does not make a good leader, or a decent person. The lack of that piece of paper does not not disqualify a person from being a good person, or a good leader. Please correct me if I'm wrong about my assumptions here....

Actually, I don't think I could pass the US Naval Academy. I would probably get taken out back and shot or at least kicked out because I can't take orders from people. But that's besides the point.

Here in America our entire way of life is built upon science, the economy etc. Everything! From medicine, to computers to automobiles. I completely agree that it doesn't automatically make them a decent leader or person. But, how can you lead a country with a journalism degree? How can you be a good leader to the people of a country when you don't even know roughly how it works? What part about making important economic, scientific or military decisions is a logical outcome of journalism? These drive America. A person that has knowledge of law, economics, military strategy and basic science should be a requisite for this office!

You wouldn't want me to run the country because I will only have a degree in Physics. I don't have a good grasp on many of the other factors at play, like economics etc. Why is the same not true about Sarah Palin? Why do people want "An average woman" in the white house? What part about running America could the average person handle?

 

[Kenneth R.]

Our entire way of life is built upon the degredation of science.*

Elect Palin and McCain and all your kids will learn in school is the 10 commandments and arabs = kill.

 

[noble savage]

Our entire way of life is built upon the degredation of science.*

Elect Palin and McCain and all your kids will learn in school is the 10 commandments and arabs = kill.

Considering McCain has sung little songs about bombing Iran, I don't think this is too far from the truth..

 

[Kenneth R.]

Lets not forget that fruit fly research is a waste of time, space exploration is a waste of time, medical research is a waste of time (hell, McCain's 70 something, it ain't gonna do him any good), and education is a waste of time. What we need is religion, hockey, and national defense.

 

[noble savage]

I agree with you (And always have on this issue), but I think there is more to it than just saying "We need to fund space exploration and fruit fly research" as I have come to realize recently.

What is the point of funding these things if Americans don't care about them? You can pump all of the money you want into the education system, but is a new computer going to spark a kids interest in science or anything else important for that matter? Fuck no! It starts from the bottom up. Proghead3 mentioned anti-intellectualism in America and I think that is key here.

People place such a high value on how well you interact socially and how much of what you are interested in lines up with what is 'mainstream'. If you are the kid who sits in a class and always raises your hand because you know the answer, you are a 'nerd' and considered strange. Same with your taste in music and television. It's very taxing emotionally when you are someone who really enjoys laughing and making others laugh, but kept at arms length because you listen to fusion and read 2-3 books a week. Trust me, I know this first hand and it can really explain why people don't have any drive to explore the interesting, offbeat things in life. Only the mean things Simon said to one of the American Idol singers!

Edit: Sorry, I re-read this and it ventures into ranting territory. I took a Midol and am all better now!

 

[Ascension]

Give me a fucking break.

You couldn't get a job at McDonalds and become district manager after 143 days of experience.

You couldn't become chief of surgery after 143 days of experience of being a surgeon.

You couldn't get a job as a teacher and be the superintendent after 143 days of experience.

You couldn't join the military and become a colonel after a 143 days of experience.

You couldn't get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor after 143 days of experience.
BUT....

'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That's how many days the Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World .... 143 days.

We all have to start somewhere. The senate is a good start, but after 143 days, that's all it is - a start.

AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this and campaigning for him. We wouldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet some are okay with this for the President of the United States of America ?
Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!

Yeah...give me a fuckin' break!

 

[Proghead3]

Our entire way of life is built upon the degredation of science.*

This is a great point. A well developed intellect is arguably a disadvantage to an American politician right now. It all feeds into the "elitism" argument; small town people are "pro-America" while Barack Obama is an ivy-league elitist who thinks America is "imperfect."

Those small towns better be pro-America after all the tax dollars they siphon away from those nasty big cities!

 

[Kenneth R.]

Yeah...give me a fuckin' break!

Right, we went over this before man. The constitution allows that as a born-citizen 35 years of age or older, you require 0 (yes, ZERO! not 143) days of experience in order to be eligible for president. Guys like our friend Mr. Bush have proven that regardless of how big your numbers are on paper, you can still be utterly unprepared for a given situation. This argument is null.

 

[Ascension]

Simply being qualified under the constitution does not make one ready for the job...it's a little more complex than that. The argument stands.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Did you read my second sentence (This is the 3rd time I've brought it up.)

 

[Iced Dog]

What we need is religion, hockey, and national defense.

Hey, hockey is important, but it will be just fine without Palin in the Whitehouse

Obviously Obama has a very impressive educational resume, but that can be overrated. Arguing qualifications between Obama and Palin goes deeper than that. Obama has clearly shown himself to be a very thoughtful, intelligent, even-keeled statesman...someone who looks, you know, presidential. Palin on the other hand has been...for lack of a less harsh word, a joke. And this is regardless of viewing her through a particular media lens, it's just plain to see. She does have talent though...she can rally ultra-conversatives like nobody's business

 

[Kenneth R.]

I'm just going to underscore once again how moot the 'experience' argument is when we have a jackass like Bush Jr, and have had similar Jackasses in the past, all with decorated experience and supposed education.

 

[Ascension]

Did you read my second sentence (This is the 3rd time I've brought it up.)

You're trying to over simplify the issue...probably because your man BHO lacks experience to hold the job...so your argument holds no water.

If experience did not matter...any Tom, Dick, or Harry off the street could hold the position. We all know that's not the case nor will it ever be.

I shouldn't have to bring this up again. :Smug:

Obviously Obama has a very impressive educational resume, but that can be overrated. Arguing qualifications between Obama and Palin goes deeper than that.

I guess it's good then that Palin isn't running for the top position like the equally under-qualified BHO is.

 

[Kenneth R.]

According to the constitution, any Tom Dick or Harry is legally entitled to hold the position. "Experience" has proven to be an unreliable measure of capability. There have been presidents of experience who have been excellent leaders. There have been inexperienced, similarly excellent leaders. There have also been dipshits both experienced and not. Therefore, the argument is not for inexperience but against the validity of experience as a guage of capability. Understand this the 4th time?

Another bottle of wine! PS I actually really like your signature. No sarcasm.

 

[Proghead3]

]
I guess it's good then that Palin isn't running for the top position like the equally under-qualified BHO is.

You make it sound like his only experience is his 3+ years in the Senate. He was also a law professor, attorney, state legislator for 3 terms, and community organizer.

All that aside, in my opinion, either you have the judgment and intellect to be President or you don't. Obama does. Conservative columnist Chris Buckley recently wrote, Obama has a "first-class temperament and a first-class intellect" which I completely agree with.

McCain on the other hand, for all his "experience" gets it wrong far too frequently. He looks downright mentally deficient trying to defend his horrific pick of Sarah Palin, who is indefensible. In recent news, his ill-advised campaign jumped all over the Ashley Todd story only to have it, not-surprisingly, blow up in their face. He failed to take up a leadership role during the fiscal crisis and ended up looking like a jackass by fake-suspending his campaign.

McCain had a golden opportunity to give voters a reason to support him, he could have voted against the bailout. But alas, he didn't. There is really nothing he can do now.