Atheism (Do you believe in God? If yes, then why?)

[Demilich]

1) If you think your "denomination" of Christianity is "better" than other denominations of Christianity, you are no true Christian. Denominations in a religion such as Christianity are utter bullshit, you are all Christian, all of the same religion. The denominations only create conflict within the religion. To think yours is right and others are wrong is just plain ignorant, not only of the fact that the bible can be interpreted in hundreds of different ways [with each interpretation being CORRECT], but also of the fact that every denomination has contradictions and falsities [the catholic church being #1 in that area].

Imo, this may be true, but it is no more true than saying that Christianity (and any other faith) creates squabbling and conflict within a more important body than any specific religious group: humanity. Religion is the root of a lot of absolutely senseless violence, discrimination, alienation, defensiveness, etc.

It makes no sense from a human perspective that people approach their daily lives with the conviction that their beliefs are justified by a higher authority that can't be verified in any way. This is a crutch, allowing people to appear moral, devout and pure while simply using a very old book or "intepretations" of "divine revelation" to walk all over others.

 

[Έρεβος]

Imo, this may be true, but it is no more true than saying that Christianity (and any other faith) creates squabbling and conflict within a more important body than any specific religious group: humanity. Religion is the root of a lot of absolutely senseless violence, discrimination, alienation, defensiveness, etc.

It makes no sense from a human perspective that people approach their daily lives with the conviction that their beliefs are justified by a higher authority that can't be verified in any way. This is a crutch, allowing people to appear moral, devout and pure while simply using a very old book or "intepretations" of "divine revelation" to walk all over others.

Yes of course, I was simply talking on a smaller scale of the hiprocrisy within the faith. Though this also depends on your definition of "religion", as there are many belief systems that are not the roots of such. Most ancient "religions" were of such quality, though they were sometimes corrupted by those in power. But, the judaic religions started this disgust on a large scale, and the religions that were corrupted by the judeo-christian values being incorporated into world society. They are literalistic and absolute, that is where the problems stem from, literal "supernatural" justification and linear absolutes. Though you did say this with the "people approach their daily lives with the conviction that their beliefs are justified by a higher authority that can't be verified in any way. This is a crutch, allowing people to appear moral, devout and pure while simply using a very old book or "intepretations" of "divine revelation" to walk all over others.", but not all belief systems are anything like such [therefore not all "religion" or "faiths", as you said].

 

[Έρεβος]

And the christians i personally know, prolly 1000+, havent even read the bible, they mostly just know they are monotheists and ask for forgiveness and believe in Christ.

Likewise, in fact, my atheist friends typically know more about christianity than my christian friends do . . .

But what was you point with this?

As for the Mother Teresa / Varg thing, what was the point there as well?

 

[MetalBooger]

just answer and i will tell you after.

 

[Έρεβος]

just answer and i will tell you after.

Mother Teresa. So, what?

 

[MetalBooger]

I wanted to know if i was wasting my time trying to prove my ideologies to you, and i guess i was. You clearly are unstable and a sociopath, im sure your parents would agree.

 

[Έρεβος]

I wanted to know if i was wasting my time trying to prove my ideologies to you, and i guess i was. You clearly are unstable and a sociopath, im sure your parents would agree.

Because I favor Varg to Mother Teresa? Because I would rather a absolute genius live than a nice old lady [that is a matron of the most disgusting organization on the planet]? Varg has more potential than nearly any human on this planet, and his ideas are brilliant, though a very few are slightly misguided. How exactly would you characterize me as an unstable sociopath? Because I reject societal norms? I'm sorry, but philosophical logic does not suggest a mental illness. Labeling someone as an unstable sociopath because they disagree with and oppose you, could suggest at one, though.

And no, my parents and everyone I know would very much disagree with you on me being "unstable and a sociopath."

 

[speed]

Because I favor Varg to Mother Teresa? Because I would rather a absolute genius live than a nice old lady [that is a matron of the most disgusting organization on the planet]? Varg has more potential than nearly any human on this planet, and his ideas are brilliant, though a very few are slightly misguided. How exactly would you characterize me as an unstable sociopath? Because I reject societal norms? I'm sorry, but philosophical logic does not suggest a mental illness. Labeling someone as an unstable sociopath because they disagree with and oppose you, could suggest at one, though.

And no, my parents and everyone I know would very much disagree with you on me being "unstable and a sociopath."

Maybe they could have like a cage match! Mother Theresa and the angels, against Varg with Thor and Odin.

 

[Seditious]

Because I favor Varg to Mother Teresa? Because I would rather a absolute genius live than a nice old lady [that is a matron of the most disgusting organization on the planet]? Varg has more potential than nearly any human on this planet, and his ideas are brilliant, though a very few are slightly misguided. How exactly would you characterize me as an unstable sociopath?

mother teresa was just a freelance slave, she had no life of her own so she just lived for other people, like some sort of parasite trying to be happy by pleasing others, like a girl who turns slutty trying to feel loved. choosing to be a slut rather than a hooker doesn't make you that great a fuckin moral human being, most of us can help others without having to sacrifice shit and be a slave to their wants.

and hell, I think it's clear she'd probably have said 'pick me, spare him' anyway since she was such a slave to others, so it seems like the rational choice.

 

[MetalBooger]

Well if you can prove Mother Teresa was a slave instead of a free, loving and caring individual who liked to help people, go ahead. If not, you should prove varg's ideologies are better than Mother Teresa's.

Simply saying Teresa was a slave, parasite, is not enough, if i recall actually a parasite is a organism that benefits off another organism while also harming it. You also have to prove she was property of the catholic church, instead of just an employee. You say her devotion to helping others was like a girl who wants to act slutty to gain love. Well is it just me or is there a differences between doing good out of the good of your heart or looking good to feel good? Sry for repetition.

Whats the differences between slavary and devotion? Im pretty sure one is more economic.

And of course you have to have some measurement device to prove Varg is more effective, like hmmm, have any of his ideologies worked in RL? How many people support his thinking? Prove to me the love Teresa spread is worse than Varg's hate.


Tell me how the catholic church is the most disgusting organization in the planet? You mean the sudanese government with their genocides are any better? Or the islamo facist organizations bent on killing more than just americans? Or the SS faction of the Nazi party? Please show me how the church is so evil, and how they have completly destroyed your life and the entire world you live in. Im sure there are a few million Jews, Africans, women, Chinese, Mexicans, and about a 2 billion other people who would disagree.

And im just saying you are prolly a rebellous young lad who is prolly just trying to piss ppl off, most people, who have more money, friends, and probably better education/life would most likely disagree. You probably just think you have figured out this rare and obscure mystery to life, and that the whole world is blind, but prolly you are wrong...

Sorry for jumping around, im writing an essay atm and i dont got lots of time for replies.

 

[Έρεβος]

So you are saying people that help others are slaves?

I didn't say that. Though I do agree with Seditious' to an extent, I think Mother Teresa was a 'good' person, but she accomplished little of lasting or real worth. Just helping people in bad situations does little for this world, and to some extent could further worsen it, as not all that seem to need help, should get help.

Not to mention she caused the conversion of many to the catholic faith, hardly a good thing there.

Another thing, why do you think a "woman of god", would help others? Because the bible commands it, saying it is good, and will therefore buy her a ticket to fairy-land, and that it will convert others to follow her God and be "saved"? Or because she selflessly wants to improve the world for future generations? The first is a whole lot more likely, following the "commands" of the supernatural + foolish and selfish longing for eternal bliss.

 

[derbeder]

Varg has more potential than nearly any human on this planet, and his ideas are brilliant, though a very few are slightly misguided.

please...

 

[MetalBooger]

Just helping people in bad situations does little for this world, and to some extent could further worsen it, as not all that seem to need help, should get help.

Sounds kind of elitist. I send money through world vision each month to two kids in Africa, and i dont care if im not helping the whole world, im helping two kids who i care about, and that i want to help get out of poverty. You dont understand but people love each other, and if their faith in God helps them to do that, then all the better. Maybe you have never helped another person like that, but it brings joy to sacrifice what you have to help those who are down.

I never said religions are perfect, but the fact that we have faith and have a meaning in our lives makes us happy. And all the better if our religion helps spread the joy that it should to others, and if you guys dont wanna accept that, i dont see anyone burning your house down and forcing you to convert.


And if i recall correctly, India is one of the safest and most peacful countries in that region of the world, christians, Hindu, Muslim, all live together.

 

[Έρεβος]

please...

Please what?

Sounds kind of elitist. I send money through world vision each month to two kids in Africa, and i dont care if im not helping the whole world, im helping two kids who i care about, and that i want to help get out of poverty. You dont understand but people love each other, and if their faith in God helps them to do that, then all the better. Maybe you have never helped another person like that, but it brings joy to sacrifice what you have to help those who are down.

"Helping" people does nothing to improve the planet, it is not the unfortunate that need helping, it is the whole of society. To aid an unfortunate individual does nothing to aid the whole, does nothing to prevent forests from being leveled, polution from being spread across the planet, the destruction of all value and meaning. We place too much importance on the individual, while neglecting and destroying the whole. Implanting an idea, a true value, into the minds of people, is a far greater action than giving a starving man a loaf of bread. Instead of just "helping" people, we should be helping them help themselves, and help the whole. I have nothing against charity or helping in such a way, but the vast majority of the time, it accomplishes nothing.

 

[MetalBooger]

Im out, you are miserable, depressing, and not even valid.

 

[judas69]

"Be the change that you want to see" .. famous quote.

 

[Nile577]

The notion of something existing is entirely consistent with the nonexistence of human consciousness.

'Existence' as a term was first defined by consciousness. If consciousness did not exist, existence would be impossible. Without consciousness, the entire lexicon of language and the spectrum of our cognitive function would be muted. Everything consciousness has ever thought or supposed or learnt or considered would have no bearing. All that would BE is the inexpressible, unthinkable, unknowable. One term for this is God. It is this God that humans give meaning to through their consciousness, by instilling ontological existence in the world. At first consciousness discloses the universe - 'I am NOT everything' - then, within this disclosure, through attention, it discloses the ontology of specific 'things.' Consciousness is the malleable nothingness through which meaning comes into the world. When I disclose a 'coke can,' the nothingess of consciousness is NOT that coke can. The nothingess of consciousness can change to be NOT that marker pen. In this way, its malleability discloses the nature of Being and existence.

Logic, math and science dishonestly attempt to apply specific ‘disposures’ of consciousness as categorical, certitudes. These are posited as objective, universal rules, existing outside of consciousness. Clearly they are in fact dependent on consciousness; they are initially disclosed by it. Removing consciousness would cause them to cease. They cannot truly be ‘universal,’ outside of consciousness because the tenets of that term are limited by the human cognitive paradigm. Indeed, what we mean by 'universal' is itself a disclosure of consciousness. One cannot think what is unthinkable, no matter how perspicacious the thinker.

 

[Seditious]

"Be the change that you want to see" .. famous quote.

"you must be the change you wish to see" I believe it is, to be exact (ghandi quote wasn't it?)
(those 3 words change it from something like 'dont be all talk' as if its an option and make it more a necessity 'if you want that then you must be it!')

 

[Seditious]

'Existence' as a term was first defined by consciousness. If consciousness did not exist, existence would be impossible. Without consciousness, the entire lexicon of language and the spectrum of our cognitive function would be muted.

I'm still not sure about the whole necessary being argument, but on this point...


existence had to exist before something could exist to define it, the definition, the term 'existence' doesn't create existence any more than naming your baby after it is born is its birth.

 

[Blue_Jay]

How did this happen?

I was convinced that God created the world. I think he created the world because how else did this world... get created. I mean mountains erode, water causes depths to go lower, and air helps cause clouds and of course plays a factor in temperature but what created the driving forces to this. Only something that can create. Even more, animals. How else can animals be made.

But this is what I think, I know y'all well have contradicting veiws but yes I believe in him.