Black Metal.

[Omni]

I fucking hate Alcest and Amesoeurs.

Perfectly cool by me, even though I like both of them.

I would because they're fucking terrible.

There's nothing terrible about them, even if you don't like their music. They're one of the most original bands around today that don't resort to being experimental and weird, and they can actually play their instruments, unlike a lot of bands that receive stupid amounts of praise.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I agree, I don't understand how you could think they're absolutely abhorrent unless you hate someone in the band, which makes it illogical to dislike the band as a whole.

In any case, a new Wedard song is up on last.fm for some reason (it's DEFINITELY him, listen to it)

http://www.last.fm/music/Wedard/2008

 

[Omni]

I agree, I don't understand how you could think they're absolutely abhorrent unless you hate someone in the band, which makes it illogical to dislike the band as a whole.

Anyone who likes Peste Noire is a poser because Neige is in the band and he made shoegaze instead of black metal. They're not tr00 blak metulz anymore.

 

[Noktorn]

People saying that Alcest is okay because it's JUST shoegaze are omitting the fact that it's some of the gayest shoegaze ever made. My Bloody Valentine is like Suffocation compared to Alcest.

 

[Vilden]

Yeah Alcest is pretty lame and I like a fair bit of other shoegaze (alot of the genre is really gay though).

 

[Omni]

There's nothing gay about it. The only people who think it's gay are, in fact, gay themselves and can't come up with any objective reason as to why it's bad, since it's played and arranged extremely well compared to just about any shoegaze, or even black metal, album. My favorite thing is when people try to say all of the songs sound alike, considering how different they all are from each other.

 

[S<issors]

Alcest is fine fucking shoegaze. MBV is better, of course, but MBV is better than just about all shoegaze and SDAM kinda does its own shit... so whatever. And just 'cause Neige made some BM doesn't change that it IS shoegaze. I never understood that argument.

 

[Noktorn]

There's nothing gay about it. The only people who think it's gay are, in fact, gay themselves and can't come up with any objective reason as to why it's bad, since it's played and arranged extremely well compared to just about any shoegaze, or even black metal, album. My favorite thing is when people try to say all of the songs sound alike, considering how different they all are from each other.

All the melodies are openly pop and alt-rock based and there's essentially nothing on the album that couldn't be heard on mainstream radio; see the beginning of the title track, sounds like something that Chevelle would do. Droning vocals that try to hide his lack of singing skill by restricting volume range as much as possible to avoid breaking regularly. Overall uninspired compositions that are seen as 'progressive' but really just bring pop sensibilities to the metal scene in a form that's tolerable because the guy behind it also does black metal. The same idea has been done before but many times better from bands like Vehemence.

I actually like Alcest but it's stupid to say there are no objective criticisms that can be levied against it.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

lol Vehemence?

 

[The Ozzman]

When I think of pop sensibilities in metal, I don't think of Vehemence

 

[Noktorn]

Vehemence being one of the best bands that metal has ever turned out is one of the few 'facts' of metal that there is no argument over. You're just right or wrong, there's not even an illusion of opinion involved.

When I think of pop sensibilities in metal, I don't think of Vehemence

'God Was Created' has MASSIVE amounts of pop and alt-rock influenced melodies.

 

[The Ozzman]

I haven't heard GWC

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Don't, because it's horribly cheesy. Also Vehemence is pretty bad. And extremely overrated. And we can't talk about them here cuz BM thread.

 

[Omni]

All the melodies are openly pop and alt-rock based and there's essentially nothing on the album that couldn't be heard on mainstream radio

I hate to inform you, but the melodies on the album are based almost entirely off folk music, as evidenced by the use of larger interval dyads and classical guitar influences. Not to mention the overt black metal-influenced tremolo melodies that clearly weren't from "pop" music. Sorry, but major scales aren't pop- and alt-rock-based. Considering that it's not black metal and the artist himself makes absolutely no claim that it is, people are just butthurt and acting like he's making pop music.

Actually know what you're talking about next time.

 

[Noktorn]

Of course, there's no possible way that folky melodies could be used in pop music right? How silly of me to suggest the the clean guitar passages found in popular alternative rock songs resemble Alcest's newer material. And of course the very idea that such overtly gentle and melodic music could be found on the radio is equally silly, as is the related idea that both folk and alternative rock and pop could *possibly* carry some of the same melodic ideas.

I'll just get back in my shed now massa, your scale-checking is just too much for me.

 

[Mort Divine]

The album IS undeniably pop influenced but that is in NO WAY a bad thing, really the album reminds me a lot of 1960s French pop music which (the little I've heard) is great. I think the album shines through amongst the other shoegaze bands in that it makes heavier use of the acoustic sections as opposed to the tendency to err towards noise rock sections. It isn't better than Loveless, Souvlaki, Mezcal Head, Spooky, etc. but it IS good.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Good post imo.

 

[Omni]

Of course, there's no possible way that folky melodies could be used in pop music right? How silly of me to suggest the the clean guitar passages found in popular alternative rock songs resemble Alcest's newer material. And of course the very idea that such overtly gentle and melodic music could be found on the radio is equally silly, as is the related idea that both folk and alternative rock and pop could *possibly* carry some of the same melodic ideas.

I'll just get back in my shed now massa, your scale-checking is just too much for me.

You just told me that the melodies on it were based off of pop music, when it's clearly very folk-based in melody and playing style, while also referencing black metal and the sound of Joy Division. While it could be compared to pop music, IT'S NOT MAJORLY INFLUENCED BY OR BASED OFF OF POP MUSIC, so yes, YOU ARE QUITE OBJECTIVELY WRONG.

Find an argument or don't try to have one.

It isn't better than Loveless, Souvlaki, Mezcal Head, Spooky, etc. but it IS good.

These albums have all had more of an impact on music than Alcest probably ever will, but it's also worth noting that Alcest doesn't even sound similar to any of them. I think Loveless is one of the top albums ever in any genre.

 

[Noktorn]

The 'folk influences' that Alcest employs have been co-opted so severely by just about every popular style of music that it's ridiculous to state that Alcest is influenced by folk music and nothing else. If you really want to split hairs, fine, substitute 'influenced by pop' to 'sounds hugely like pop'. What the hell is the folk-based playing style? Are you going to honestly say that those rolling strum patterns on their own reference folk? Jesus, based off that I could say that Alcest is blues-based. The fact is that the origins of Alcest's sound are unimportant to the people criticizing the band FOR the sound. People think it sounds poppy and alt-rocky, and whether or not you think that it was a major influence on Alcest's music, it's sure as hell a legitimate sonic comparison to make. One black box can have rabid badgers inside it and another one can be filled like candy but they're both black boxes regardless of what they have inside.

 

[Omni]

One black box can have rabid badgers inside it and another one can be filled like candy but they're both black boxes regardless of what they have inside.

The question is this: Because both black boxes are somewhat comparable, was one black box influenced by and based off of the other just because they're both black boxes?

According to your previous statement, it would be.

Oh, and pop rock isn't very comparable to folk music in terms of playing style.