chat, feelings, and random discussion thread

[Lina]

You mean the ones with a problem with taking girls to gigs?

Yes. I'm not saying they should like metal, but if they don't like metal they should stay home or go but understand that the night will not revolve around them. So if your girl expects 24-7 attention, she's selfish and needy, in which case why the fuck would you want to be in a relationship with her? And if your girl decides to dress up like a goth slut, then she wants to get humped, and if she claims she doesn't, she's irrational and simple-minded, neither of which are good qualities in a relationship either.

Yay.

 

[Taliesin]

...she's selfish and needy
[...]
she's irrational (and simple-minded)

Didnt you just describe 95% of all latin american girls?

 

[rahvin]

Didnt you just describe 95% of all latin american girls?

Oh boy. Now this is the kind of racism that it's hard to explain away as language-based. Rock on, you pure-breed viking: two or three generations still separate you from your world being razed to the ground by the invasion of those pesky southerners!

 

[KitKat]

Because you have to give them enough attention to make them feel loved, which is hard when a band you'll see once every five years is on stage rcoking out and you get to see your girlfriend every day anyway. plus it doesn't matter what you do, they'll still end up in a pissy mood with you for some reason or other. Probably because you laughed at a joke the bar maid made or something like that...

Girls who do that are stupid. All my attention is on the concert and not on my boyfriend... and he can laugh at other girls jokes.
The problem is the girlfriend herself, not bringing her at concert lol

 

[Kovenant84]

Yes. I'm not saying they should like metal, but if they don't like metal they should stay home or go but understand that the night will not revolve around them. So if your girl expects 24-7 attention, she's selfish and needy, in which case why the fuck would you want to be in a relationship with her?

Ok, this I'll agree on. When we first went to the concert, she had never heard of DT, and I hadn't had a whole hell of a lot of time to indoctrinate her. However, despite the fact that she did not care for the music that much, she loved the experience, and was pscyhed she got to shake hands with Stanne. Had she actively hated the music and not liked the experience at all, then I would never ask her to go to another. So in short, agreed.

And if your girl decides to dress up like a goth slut, then she wants to get humped, and if she claims she doesn't, she's irrational and simple-minded, neither of which are good qualities in a relationship either.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Be careful where you're swinging the "irrational and simple-minded" descriptor, there. Just as a pointer, that's nearly identical to the 'they dress at all provocatively, so they must like being raped' argument. It's, in short, retarded. For clarification to my story, I volunteer the following:

1. She was wearing something over the corset for much of the night. Does she enjoy looking attractive? Yes. Slutty? No. She had originally assumed they were going to look like some kind of goth-metal band (she didn't have that much experience with metal) and wound up wearing that top, with a sweatshirt, and possibly the baggiest cargo pants I have ever seen. So overall, no, not slutty. I only mentioned the corset to try and justify the guy's actions. For all I know, he could have been gay, and though she was some fat amorphous blob of a metal fan.
2. It was one guy, who by the looks of him, was 15, tops. She told me she thought he was trying to hump her, I turned, looked, saw him try, and scared him off. How he got in, I don't know, it's New Jersey. Who knows what they do there.
3. I offered the example solely for the purposes of illustrating an argument made by someone else. Namely, that one reason some guys don't like to bring their girls along is the feeling that they need to protect them from other guys, because hey, we as guys know how other guys can act.

My aplogies for over-use of italics. For reference, #3 is the important one. The other two are just angry. I'll understand if you were making assumptions based on the limited info I gave, but that doesn't justify bashing someone else's significant other.

~kov.

 

[plintus]

For the record: I come from Jersey We do many things there

I wouldn't take my gf to the show, cuz

a) it's my time, I'm about to have a BLAST and I don't want to be held back by anything and/or anybody;
b) I really don't want her to see me after the BLAST... or, God forbid, during it (you should have seen Mike's eyes last time - "Watta fuck is this?.." );

Well, this is for the band I really care about - dt and if. I would take her to, say, Incubus, and be quietly sipping drinks at the bar enjoying the show.

Whatever.

 

[Kovenant84]

Well, yeah, I know that's where you're from, that's why I mentioned it

And really, one of the main reasons she came along was because she had never heard that type of music before, the tix were $15 each, so no big deal there, and I wanted to show her why I liked seeing them live so much even if she didn't like the music all that much. It's not like she hates DT's sound, she just isn't into it as much as other stuff. And just seeing the pure energy of a DT gig was enough to show her why I liked it so much. In my experience, it helped bridge our musical tastes, as we don't always see eye to eye in that area. She knows I'd go see some softer rock band with her if it was something she really wanted to see, because I know she'd like it if I was there, and she knows I wouldn't hate it uncontrollably.

~kov.

 

[rahvin]

@Kov. I don't think Lina meant to apply a moral filter to the situation. It's not "she dresses provocatively so she deserves to be molested by horny guys", but "she dresses provocatively and she cannot ignore this means being a likelier object of unrequited attention".

I feel the same way as you about slutty clothes/behavior not justifying rape, but foreseeing the consequences - no matter how unjust - is a matter of intelligence, in the same way as parading your jewelry up and down the street at night certainly does not justify the perfectly predictable theft that ensues.

Clearly, I'm not referring to your significant other in particular: whether she dressed provocatively or not, it's her business alone. Generally speaking, someone who does without seeing what the outcome of her actions may be probably deserves the "simple-minded" label.

 

[Kovenant84]

Alright then, perhaps I overreacted a bit. The phrasing leant itself very much towards a personal attack, though.

I agree with you that recognizing the possible outcomes of ones actions is representative of possible simple mindedness, which is why I clarified that she had brought a sweatshirt and worn that in addition for most of the night. Perhaps I get a bit too defensive on this topic. Regardless of what she wears (and I truly mean regardless) she is often hit on by guys, and so I'm used to the outcome of me having to drive them off (if they don't leave her alone after she asks them to). I think she simply wasn't prepared for the dearth of females at the concert relative to the male population there, and so didn't realize how her dress could aggravate the situation. She did, however, adapt, and react accordingly.

In a purely hypothetical situation, had she not reacted by wearing the sweatshirt, and then done the same thing at another concert, then I would be inclined to agree with Lina.

Edit: It seems for all my attempts at level-headedness, I can't escape the fact that I'm an Aries, sometimes. My apologies if I've overreacted - I think it's well known that this is a sensitive subject for me. I may have misinterpreted Lina's intent with her post, and I apologize for the antagonistic tone in mine.

~kov.

 

[rahvin]

Regardless of what she wears (and I truly mean regardless) she is often hit on by guys.

So is my girlfriend, who always dresses rather modestly. I'm definitely more worried about her well-being at concerts - where it's easier for everybody to act less rational and more aggresively - so I see where you're coming from. Let's just say that I draw a line between wearing something nice for the night out, which is riskier than going there in sackcloth and ashes, and, for instance, showing enough cleavage to set the place on fire, which would be irresponsible, dangerous, and a choice I wouldn't be comfortable with.

Edit: No need to apologize, I think. I wasn't trying to calm you down, just clarify so the discussion could move on.

 

[Lina]

@Kov. I don't think Lina meant to apply a moral filter to the situation. It's not "she dresses provocatively so she deserves to be molested by horny guys", but "she dresses provocatively and she cannot ignore this means being a likelier object of unrequited attention".

I feel the same way as you about slutty clothes/behavior not justifying rape, but foreseeing the consequences - no matter how unjust - is a matter of intelligence, in the same way as parading your jewelry up and down the street at night certainly does not justify the perfectly predictable theft that ensues.

Clearly, I'm not referring to your significant other in particular: whether she dressed provocatively or not, it's her business alone. Generally speaking, someone who does without seeing what the outcome of her actions may be probably deserves the "simple-minded" label.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant.

 

[Kovenant84]

@Lina: Yeah, I see that now. Sorry about that before.

Let's just say that I draw a line between wearing something nice for the night out, which is riskier than going there in sackcloth and ashes, and, for instance, showing enough cleavage to set the place on fire, which would be irresponsible, dangerous, and ...

...Often times, thanks to genetics, avoidable only by her wearing a baggy sweater. Unfortunate for going out (anywhere except maybe a dance club), indeed. Especially at concerts. Which is why she wears nothing more provocative than large t-shirts to them anymore.

So is my girlfriend, who always dresses rather modestly. I'm definitely more worried about her well-being at concerts - where it's easier for everybody to act less rational and more aggresively - so I see where you're coming from.

This is the brunt of what I was trying to get at. She's can be very aggressive when she needs to, which basically means I dont' have to worry about her in 1 on 1 situations. But in a crowd like at a concert, I do feel very protective. Another example: We went to Ozzfest a couple of summers back, and some band started a circle pit right near us. Eventually it happened that we wound up on the inner edge of the circle, and she got jostled into the path of a couple of rabid fans, and there was a Hollywood-esque moment where I was trying to hold onto her while she was nearly being swept away by a flood of 20-somethings. I solved the problem by sacrificing the guy who jostled her to the flood and putting her where he had been standing, which didn't turn out well for the dude, but it illustrates why I keep her far away from pits.

~kov.

 

[Taliesin]

Oh boy. Now this is the kind of racism that it's hard to explain away as language-based.

Yes, I was ruthlessly generalising, being geographically most incorrect at that and on top of it, made a crude attempt at humour. I can clearly see where I went wrong here.
Still, what I wanted to say is that what LBRH described could have been taken out of any of the hundreds of fights I had with Hitori. This "picking something up during a debate and turn the whole thing into something completely different", eg the concert debate suddenly turns around the woman feeling ugly is something I can most vividly relate to and which is something I believe to be quite typical for women of that "region" (most geographically incorrect, remember?)
Im sure blonde and blue-eyed women (to feed your racist scenario some more) have their fair share of defects, I wouldnt know, Ive never been with one. Or maybe my perception is based on what psychologists call "sensibilisation", a mechanism that causes a certain "Aha, Ive known it all along!"-reaction, once you see the detail you expected, I dont know. But I feel Im not entirely alone with my perception.
Now call me a racist again, so I can point and laugh at you and everything goes back to normal

 

[rahvin]

Now call me a racist again, so I can point and laugh at you and everything goes back to normal

If you insist.
Actually, I was half joking. I understand that generalizations occur, both in our mind and our speech. It would be unthinkable to believe we separated each and every single case in our experience without ever drawing conclusions. This said, I had no idea where you came from with your comment about "latin american girls", since I thought you had nary met one in your lifetime (turns out you have!), and you have to admit putting down that particular ethnic group fits the aryan hooligan profile too perfectly for letting it go.

 

[fireangel]

Thanks Captain Obvious!

You´re welcome

 

[KitKat]

I really agree with Lina !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Siren]

Didnt you just describe 95% of all latin american girls?

Damn. I thought she was describing 95% of all girls.

 

[Taliesin]

Now you're being radical!

 

[KitKat]

Now you're being radical!

Hahaha but she's right !

 

[Kovenant84]

See, Talesin? Your whole problem all along was that you weren't being general enough!

~kov.