That is one hell of an understatement. :Smug:
The rest of the stay was really nice though
chat, feelings, and random discussion thread
- Thread starter La Rocque
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The rest of the stay was really nice though
GONE Ridin' Hood
Professor.
- Jul 8, 2005
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Kriek, not Kriegin fact, it doesnt mean anything at all.
Hehehehe true true, it's not "Die Wundersame Krieg" by Rafael Angle Herra, you should read it it's really good.
Well almost new year here, am I too anti social if I spend the night in front of my computer? Well I really don't care cause I'll be spending it talking to my the love of my life, my fair lady, Mrs.Gigi
.Hamburg is a really cool city indeedBtw, I'm in Hamburg, greta city, even greater metal shops. Went to one today and spent like 200E
PWN
Bye vom Hamburg!
Ive been there a few times, it has a really relaxed, mondane feeling to it. I hope that after my studies, I can work at the Lufthansa repair bay near Hamburg, that'd be awesome A little double post here, I hope no one minds. It's something that's been on my mind for some time. In Germany, there have been 2 amok runs of disturbed students at their schools and every time, there is a huge debate about "Killergames" going on and how they bring out all the potential aggression in people and stuff. The vehemence and outright stupidity of the debate always puzzled me, be it that CounterStrike is mentioned as the number one target of brutalising games, or be it politicians, who I am sure could not in a hundred years check their emails on any computer, act like internet experts.
When I was in Belgium, there was a debate going on on tv on a french channel about computer games and guess what!? Since there have been no amok runs in France, they're playing the addiction card! So Ive been wondering where all that energy against computer games come from? My theory is that it comes from parents being notoriously being afraid of being bad parents and being all too glad to have some kind of scapegoat to blame for their mistakes as a parent.
Seriously, I'll be the first to admit that the violent side of computer games such as CS, have never made anyone a better person, still, reducing a system so complex as the life of a teenager to only one factor is beyond stupid. Anyway, like someone once said:"After every computer game is forbidden, every lan-party cancelled, every computer turned off, you'll realise you'll still have to bring up your kids"
When I was in Belgium, there was a debate going on on tv on a french channel about computer games and guess what!? Since there have been no amok runs in France, they're playing the addiction card! So Ive been wondering where all that energy against computer games come from? My theory is that it comes from parents being notoriously being afraid of being bad parents and being all too glad to have some kind of scapegoat to blame for their mistakes as a parent.
Seriously, I'll be the first to admit that the violent side of computer games such as CS, have never made anyone a better person, still, reducing a system so complex as the life of a teenager to only one factor is beyond stupid. Anyway, like someone once said:"After every computer game is forbidden, every lan-party cancelled, every computer turned off, you'll realise you'll still have to bring up your kids"
|ngenius
Little Grasshopper
marduk1507
Member
Kovenant84
T-369 days
LBRH: Yeah, it's official. 
Tale: I think that you got to the heart of the problem at the end. It's all on the parents. Either they let the games raise their kids for them, and then wonder at the outcome, or they simply use the video games as scapegoats to mask their own failings. True, there are games out there with little to no artistic merit (and I use that term very loosely, as I'm not sure 'artistic merit' is really the right term to use to describe video games), the sole purpose of which is generally to rip things limb from limb. Can there be such a thing a too violent a videogame? Sure. But it still remains in the hands of the parents to either restrict their children's access to such games, or at least take responsibility for exposing them.
~kov.
Tale: I think that you got to the heart of the problem at the end. It's all on the parents. Either they let the games raise their kids for them, and then wonder at the outcome, or they simply use the video games as scapegoats to mask their own failings. True, there are games out there with little to no artistic merit (and I use that term very loosely, as I'm not sure 'artistic merit' is really the right term to use to describe video games), the sole purpose of which is generally to rip things limb from limb. Can there be such a thing a too violent a videogame? Sure. But it still remains in the hands of the parents to either restrict their children's access to such games, or at least take responsibility for exposing them.
~kov.
Does anyone wonder why these shootings happen in schools and not just in random public places? My guess is that all that "education" fucks up young minds, and no computer game can achieve that in such a short while (how long has GTA been out?)
Here in Italy, there has been an outcry against computer games and the Internet more or less one month ago.
The reason? Some schoolkids bullied a disabled classmate, filmed the scene with a mobile phone, and posted the movie on Google video. The video was discovered by an association of parents with disabled children, and all hell broke loose. The schoolkids were punished in the stupidest way possible, ie by being banned from school for one year in favor of community service (as if they might resent not going to school). We had newspapers devoting entire pages to bullies and their victims for weeks on end, and of course politicians jumped in from left and right demanding that violent videogames be banned immediately.
Now, I don't know what happens in other countries, but here we have to cope with a strong moralistic streak which insinuates itself in almost every political party. The sanctimonious right-wing politicians launch moralistic campaigns in the name of Christian values, while the sanctimonious left-wing politicians launch moralistic campaigns in the name of human values, peace, and the need to be "good and civilized".
(note: I am by no means in favor of any of these campaigns, but I'd rather be good because I'm scared of divine wrath than be good because the government likes nice people)
Personally, I loathe censorship of any kind, and I disagree completely with everyone who thinks that banning videogames will bring an end to the age-old phenomenon of the strong overpowering the weak. It's also ridiculous how people try to explain over and over with idiotic arguments what has been known forever, i.e. man has a capacity for evil. But no, it's teh Internet!
Finally, if I couldn't blow things up on my computer I'd blow them up in real life. If I couldn't read about heavy drugs I'd shoot heavy drugs. If I couldn't read about sex I would hav... Ehm, no, that was not the point.
@plintus: I don't think it has to do with the educational system per se - more with the fact that these kids of course act to impress their peers, or to "go down in history" if eventually they shoot themselves along with all the others... and a kid's social context is first and foremost the school.
@kov: parenting enters the equation insofar as parents should be able to ascertain if their child, with his or her individual traits and inclinations, is more or less susceptible to televised violence, video games with blood and gore, and so on. i don't have any experience with parenting, but i guess that i would try to understand whether my kid has a frail personality or not and to what extent before deciding to ban something from his life. government policies have a blanket effect that treat everybody as if they were the same person - that's where the discerning role of a parent is substituted with a law, and that's also where the whole shindig of banning entertainment of any sort reeks of paternalism.
The reason? Some schoolkids bullied a disabled classmate, filmed the scene with a mobile phone, and posted the movie on Google video. The video was discovered by an association of parents with disabled children, and all hell broke loose. The schoolkids were punished in the stupidest way possible, ie by being banned from school for one year in favor of community service (as if they might resent not going to school). We had newspapers devoting entire pages to bullies and their victims for weeks on end, and of course politicians jumped in from left and right demanding that violent videogames be banned immediately.
Now, I don't know what happens in other countries, but here we have to cope with a strong moralistic streak which insinuates itself in almost every political party. The sanctimonious right-wing politicians launch moralistic campaigns in the name of Christian values, while the sanctimonious left-wing politicians launch moralistic campaigns in the name of human values, peace, and the need to be "good and civilized".
(note: I am by no means in favor of any of these campaigns, but I'd rather be good because I'm scared of divine wrath than be good because the government likes nice people)
Personally, I loathe censorship of any kind, and I disagree completely with everyone who thinks that banning videogames will bring an end to the age-old phenomenon of the strong overpowering the weak. It's also ridiculous how people try to explain over and over with idiotic arguments what has been known forever, i.e. man has a capacity for evil. But no, it's teh Internet!
Finally, if I couldn't blow things up on my computer I'd blow them up in real life. If I couldn't read about heavy drugs I'd shoot heavy drugs. If I couldn't read about sex I would hav... Ehm, no, that was not the point.
@plintus: I don't think it has to do with the educational system per se - more with the fact that these kids of course act to impress their peers, or to "go down in history" if eventually they shoot themselves along with all the others... and a kid's social context is first and foremost the school.
@kov: parenting enters the equation insofar as parents should be able to ascertain if their child, with his or her individual traits and inclinations, is more or less susceptible to televised violence, video games with blood and gore, and so on. i don't have any experience with parenting, but i guess that i would try to understand whether my kid has a frail personality or not and to what extent before deciding to ban something from his life. government policies have a blanket effect that treat everybody as if they were the same person - that's where the discerning role of a parent is substituted with a law, and that's also where the whole shindig of banning entertainment of any sort reeks of paternalism.
fireangel
Member
That a majority of elected politicians can´t check their e-mails is even worse in connection with them deciding on huge computer-/infrastructure projects, such as the computer-systems of the country´s government, autobahn-toll, internet (fibre optic-cables all over Eastern Germany, anyone? (FYI, the fibre optic cable was distributed as a better telecom-system after re-unification, but you can´t use it in connection with DSL)) or new communication systems for the police.
Concerning crime prevention, I, too, think that it depends on how parents raise and educate their children. Of course good intentions might sometimes fail aswell, but surely more seldomly than bad examples being transferred to the next generation.
Btw, this whole debate on "he (usually a guy) listened to metal, wore black clothes and was somehow solitary" is mightily funny if you would put it in a different surrounding. Just imagine other criminals´ background would be discussed like that: "He listened to Schlager and techno, was usually in groups of like-minded people (his beer buddies - a dangerous crowd), watched football and formula 1 racing, only finished the minimum school-years and had no sense of fashion whatsoever." So from that one would conclude that bars, bad clothing, football on TV and groups of more than 4 people should be forbidden
Or think of financial crime, highly educated people with expensive suits, excellent computer knowledge and collecting art; then wearing suits from Savile Row and having a permanent ticket for the Met is very suspicious
The biggest US advocate of banning videogames is a Christian lawyer far more computer savvy than that, so even if it's up to politicians to decide about the ban, people like him can clearly explain what's what (according to themselves, of course).
And that guy didn't actually sound like a freak, enthusiast, yeah, but you know what drives all lawyers... or might guess at least.
fireangel
Member
Plintus: I have to clarify, I was talking about German politicians only; as Taliesin spoke about the debate we recently had in the media.
I understand, my point is there are such people like that guy, and politicians must rely on specialists to make decisions (they have all these advisors). Too bad if they make wrong decisions, but humanity is a huge mistake by itself anyway.
And you don't need to know how to check e-mail if you are in the office - there are tons of people around for that - when everyone is doing his/her job it's much easier to move on.
fireangel
Member
yes, I know that politicians do have advisors for everything, and that they also rely on experts on all kinds of topics, so it´s not only the electronic sector. I´m aware that they can´t know just everything, but it´s still a bit silly to see this debate here going on with people making big statements on what should be forbidden.
And also, concerning the decisions on infrastructure which have a lasting impact, I guess most of the "expertise" comes from the promoting industry itself, and on the politics-side are only few people who really know about the subject. Sure, things they decide may be wrong, but with so many technology-issues going to nowhere, or not being upgrade-able/changeable, it´s really bad. Other countries did handle that way smarter, so it´s not just a "oh, sorry, it went wrong, it happens"-matter. German government could have handled a couple of things better.
An example that is not about computer-issues but about organization could be the winter service for roads. Each year for the past 15 years (before that, it was better) has seen headlines like: "Snow-chaos in.. [fill in your town/region]. Schools had to be closed, stores didn´t get new supplies, hundreds of motorists stuck". Simple solutions: invest a bunch of money into service again and also ask Scandinavian countries for advice, because even though also Finland sees headlines such as "Winter arrived suddenly and surprisingly" they still know how to handle it, and unless there are ten meters of snow, it´s really no big deal. In Germany, winter and all the problems that come with it seem to have become some kind of natural hazard.
And also, concerning the decisions on infrastructure which have a lasting impact, I guess most of the "expertise" comes from the promoting industry itself, and on the politics-side are only few people who really know about the subject. Sure, things they decide may be wrong, but with so many technology-issues going to nowhere, or not being upgrade-able/changeable, it´s really bad. Other countries did handle that way smarter, so it´s not just a "oh, sorry, it went wrong, it happens"-matter. German government could have handled a couple of things better.
An example that is not about computer-issues but about organization could be the winter service for roads. Each year for the past 15 years (before that, it was better) has seen headlines like: "Snow-chaos in.. [fill in your town/region]. Schools had to be closed, stores didn´t get new supplies, hundreds of motorists stuck". Simple solutions: invest a bunch of money into service again and also ask Scandinavian countries for advice, because even though also Finland sees headlines such as "Winter arrived suddenly and surprisingly"
they still know how to handle it, and unless there are ten meters of snow, it´s really no big deal. In Germany, winter and all the problems that come with it seem to have become some kind of natural hazard.being a politician and speaking of banning video games can be a maneuver as well: if you have no other strategies/have nothing to do/want to spread distraction for some reason - here you are, you can talk about banning video games a.k.a. Evil and the only reason those shootings happen. You won't get too many haters that way as it's not abortion or gay marriage or some other controversial topic.
And about investing money into heavy construction: money don't appear from nowhere, these expenses meant to be in a budget, and if it's an emergency - what can you do? And if it happens frequently as you say - what are local authorities up to?
fireangel
Member
naw, Germany has lots of money, they are only skimpy when it´s about using it for useful stuff
In this example for winter road service you need: good finetuning with the weather forecast service, enough equipment and enough workers. If you have that ready, you can deal with winter. The reason why winter here causes "problems" is that not enough service-cars for clearing the roads are there, and not enough people to do that, and also working on extra hours, like early in the morning or at sunday evening, in order to for example prevent a monday morning chaos. Once I was in the North, I woke up from orange flashing lights and weird sounds outside, it was 4 AM and obviously just some heavy snowing/storm had started, and you could guess that in a few hours there would be tons of snow on the roads and boardwalks. So the city department had sent out the service in order to make sure that there would not be meters of snow the next morning and everything inaccessible. That means, you have everything ready and employees on backup (who might possibly get extra pay).
Sure this costs money, but it causes more damage if the next morning people can´t go to work/school and there would happen lots of accidents. It is a wise investment.
Something else, I just read about Nightwish having done their orchestral recordings for the new CD. They already recorded pretty much else, too. They are planning their world-tour. But they still accept singer applications until Jan 15. Even though Tuomas posts regularly about the "astonishing applicants" and their soulful voices, obviously so far nothing is good enough or they would not still be looking for someone better.
Have to say that I can´t imagine who could fill this job anyways. Even if they finally decide on someone now, I still hope that in one or two years, Tarja and the guys would start anew, solving the problems they had with each other and be Nightwish again.
|ngenius
Little Grasshopper
I get the impression, by observing people of my age (this is, 26), that people resolve to have children compelled by biological or cultural pressure, not because they actually reach real maturity. So... no wonder about the results.
On one hand, I take the videogames dilema as a diverted source to explain reckless behavior. On the other hand, I understand that restriction is always a quicker way to prevent things from happening. You can trust people to drive carefully, but it's proven more effective to forbid and punish anything categorized as irresponsible conduct.
|ng.
So, I assume, German people are lazy... and no wonder looking at Taliesin - he doesn't even shave!!1!
Nightwish should put out an instrumental record with guest singers or something, we'll see. Problem also could lie in this: they are looking for operatic vocals and stage presence, so teh voice could be better than Tarja's, but if she isn't much of a frontwoman - too bad then.
World tour? Fine. I hope they skip Philly third time in a row, cuz I don't fucking care of seeing them live any longer.
Nightwish should put out an instrumental record with guest singers or something, we'll see. Problem also could lie in this: they are looking for operatic vocals and stage presence, so teh voice could be better than Tarja's, but if she isn't much of a frontwoman - too bad then.
World tour? Fine. I hope they skip Philly third time in a row, cuz I don't fucking care of seeing them live any longer.
So fucking true
And what maturity can we possible be talking about if one can't support himself and his otehr half, don't mind the kids? I can't imagine having a family without being financially secure (if I wanted to have one).
Fuck the kids, people, use rubber (I love kids, by the way).
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