Dark_Silence
Member
maybe they should make a test you can do to show you already know a foreign language, and if you pass the test, then you wouldnt have to take those language classes
chat, feelings, and random discussion thread
- Thread starter La Rocque
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Vizjaqtaar said:
Agreed completely. While I like some techno tunes, all the turbofolk songs I've heard so far were disgusting.
hyena said:
I'm not sure about that but i'm sure that i have 6 exams to prepare, one for each level. The stupid thing is that they will probably allow use to take 2 levels per semester which will result with me learning the basics of Italian in the morning and then go and learn about the past/uncomplete/futre/present/ simple tense two hours latter. This is highly illogical and i don't know why anyone would impose such a rule for any other reason then making us give them more money
Dark_Silence said:
well, i don't know another foreign language and even if i did i wouldn't have been allowed to take just one exam to prove it. For example in my 3 university years i had 4 semesters of english which didn't teach me anything new and were a total waste of time. Not that my English is that good, my point is that we didn't learn anything advanced. The whole problem with my university is that it is trying to copy the Europian University model or whatever and fails to do so because they don't have enough quality professors, so what they do instead is putting up subjects that they already have professors for. For example we have to study Media in the fucking society which is the same as Media in the Balkans which we had a year ago just because they have that useless professor lying around.
Vizjaqtaar said:
I'm not Serbian and i don't like Serbians much in general but i fail to see how listening to turbofolk is like worshipping Serbia, turbofolk is a mix of folk music and techno or whatever. Yes it sounds awful but lots of other things suck too. And what do YOU remember from Yugoslavia? You can't even spell it right. Are you trying to say that you don't listen to turbofolk because you remember what was going on 15-20 years ago?
Don't get me wrong i'm not nostalgic or something but i really don't like people who throw away 50 years of their history and pretend that it never happened, like someone of the Slovenians and Croats do.
marduk1507
Member
Cuthalion said:
Does retroactivity mean anything to these people? Any new rules such as this one should apply only to the newbies, the new students, and all the rest should finish the whole thing the old way. Its like you were sentenced for 5 years, but then they tell you, well, but now its 8 years for a crime you did, so shut up, 3 more years for you. Stupid.
marduk1507 said:
My point exactly. But according to them this rule is not new, it had been posted in some cellar in the maintenance department of the university (The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy comes into mind
) that communication sciences studens must finish 4 levels of second foreign language in order to get a diploma. What they did now is extend the 4 levels to 6 levels and no matter how many petitions we sign they don't give a fuck. I cosidered writing a bitching letter to some europian high education organisation but first of all i don't believe that they giva a fuck either and second because even if they cared i can't prove that this rule hasn't been published in some cellar in the maintenance department of the university if you catch my point
I don't have problem with taking 6 levels of Italian, as a matter of fact i would love that, the problem is that i was busy with other subjects and no one told me that i have to.
Cuthalion said:
as far as i know, in my very recent and limited knowledge of the phenomenon, turbofolk was used as a propaganda device during the war. i fail to see how it could be effective, given the absolute awfulness, but apparently it was presented and accepted as an appealing alternative to 'foreign' music, satisfying the masses' hunger for insipid disco beats while maintaining a reference to traditional music from Serbia (that's why i was surprised to know it existed in Croatia too). so if i'm not mistaken it might well be connected to Serbian nationalism, although I doubt that this is reflected in the lyrics, considering the tidbits you kindly translated for me.
the case of ceca of course should be special in this light since she was married to arkan and also had kids with him. then he was shot and from what i gather she was wondering what to do, until she came back with a gangster image and the "ideally bad" concept. plus, she says he was the love of her life and she'll never marry again and so on and so forth. in a way it's a publicity stunt, but on the other hand no matter how kitsch the taste one can't help thinking that there's a guy dead from a bullet in the eye in the background. and that's only if you want to stop at the next-to-last step.
people go to her show sending the rolling stones tits-up: you inform me that most of them are teens, but teens normally get told what they can and can't do by their parents, and if they were not forbidden to attend the show then probably it's not perceived as disgusting (and this time i'm not talking about the music) by the generation of the parents. i might be completely wrong here, but i know that i tried to carefully hide from my parents - who knew all the same, but at least they had to find their own sources - anything that smacked of militance they wouldn't condone, i.e. anarchist punk bands playing in squats. maybe today's teenagers enjoy more freedom, but maybe there's a generally positive view of the whole crowd surrounding her? to me in italy they're portrayed as gangsters, but i also know that i don't know nothing (heh) because i'm just reading what media feed me. i don't understand your language so i can't go to the original sources, and while this might be a blessing for the 39.2 concept it definitely isn't when it comes to not being able to read newspapers.
Vizjaqtaar
Blue!... No, yellooou..
I had to look for 2 minutes to find what I spelt wrong; when I wrote it the first time I was thinking in English and the second time I was thinking in German and somehow combined both.Cuthalion said:
Well, the thing about ''worshipping'' Serbia: there are some slovenian pages like myspace and there are quite a lot of kids there that write something in Serbian or have Srbija written as the place they're from, Serbian flags, three fingers in the air on every picture possible, etc. - and I guess most of them never even were in Serbia. I mostly don't care but I, as a not really patriotic Slovenian, am getting a bit offended. I do remember the mess with dinars, the bombing when I was in the kindergarten, I was in Bosnia right after the war stopped there... I'm not trying to forget those 50 years; in fact I think Tito and Jugoslavia were one of the best socialist dictatorship despite their considerable flaws, but I don't understand what's so cool about acting like a Serb, favouring it over your home country. They with Milošević were the ones who didn't allow us to become indepent peacefully.
If there are spelling errorz or wrongly used comas.. I don't care because it's 2 am.
edit:
I don't listen to turbofolk because it's much like mtv pop where image is what matters most, not beacuse it's from Serbia.
hyena said:
It was a inflation of the worst kind. The Yugoslavian currency the Dinar was dropping constantly and you needed like 50.000.000.000.000 denars to buy a loaf of bread. The country solution to the inflation was printing new money constantly and people went to the store with two bags of money just to buy bread and milk. Aside from that the banks collapsed because of the inflation and people that had foreign currency in the banks (Deutch Marks for exapmle) had them frozen by the banks.
I'm not really informed about this subjects but i think that additionaly there were some fuck ups with the banks from the other Yugoslavian republics. For example the Ljubjana Bank branch in Macedonia just collected all the money it had and bailed to Slovenia leaving all the people who had money there fucked. ALso there were some interesting stories with credit payments. For example if someone had been granted a credit by a bank for 50.000 dinars which was at the time enough to buy a house could pay back the whole credit in the time of inflation with the change after buying a pack of cigarettes, some people got lucky like that.
As for Ceca, and i really hope that this will bring this topic to the end. Ceca is not underground, she is not listened to by teenagers only, she is massive even in Macedonia, and apparently in Croatia too although they will never admit it becouse of her history with Arkan. I believe that 2 years ago she was supposed to have a concert in Zagreb, Croatia and it was more or less sold out but she was denied entrance in Croatia in the last minute because of her history. She had a concert in Skopje a year ago and the stadium was packed full. Only a couple of people are able to gather such an audience in Skopje and i believe that even if the U2 or some similar world class band had come the response wouldn't have been that great. Ceca is able to reach to the minds of middle/low class people here like no other and since there are lots of them here she is reaching a lot of people. The interesting thing is that most of them deny listening to her when in the company of other people (there is a big rock and techno/trance audience here too). It is considered a redneck music and alas many people here are rednex of the worst kind
vizjaqtaar said:
Well, i don't know, maybe some of that people have serbian origins or something, many people here have serbian origins including me for example. Once more i don't like Serbs or Serbia in general just because their arrogant nationalism wich actualy brought them in the mess they are in the last 15 years. Fuck it, I don't care, if someone here is stupid enough to tattoo some nationalist symbol like the four S symbol let him fucking do that, i just can't be bothered with such idiots.
Cuthalion said:
Thanks for the explanation. This is the same thing that happened in Germany during the Weimar period, people had to spend millions of marks on the simplest goods. Apparently, it was an important factor in Hitler's rise to power: he profited from the people's malcontent caused by economic disarray. In Italy there was a smallish version of this phenomenon in the late 70s and 80s, double-digit inflation reigned for years on end. It was not so bad by any means, and anyway the salaries were continually changed to retain purchasing power (obviously, this added to the inflationary pressures). Still, people who had a long-term, fixed-rate mortgage, which means more or less 50 per cent of my parents' generation, were lucky in the way you describe: they started off in the seventies spending about 20% of their salaries on mortgage payments and by 1990 they were paying their houses with less than 1% of their income. Right now, with the rate hikes in Europe and especially the US, something similar is bound to happen, although the proportions will be infinitely smaller.
Cuthalion said:
Right, I'll stop mentioning her.
But if you want to get started on your Italian classes by translating some cheesy pop songs, I am willing to help anytime At the moment I'm not really up to date on the scene, and at first blush I can't recall anything that matches the sublime "You ripped out a brick from the foundation of our love", but I'll try to interrogate people who are more in the know. All I can say is that every time I go to the gym I'm subjected to about three hundred reruns of an idiotic video called "Applausi per Fibra", a teen anthem sung by an awful wannabe hip-hop star named Fabri Fibra. Not a good place to start your studies tho, since it practically has no lyrics.Oh, and as a final note, some years ago i went to visit someone in Greece, and she had the gall to take me in a ghastly place where traditional music, much in the vein of turbofolk, was played. She kept on referring to the genre as "Ax!" music, because apparently most songs start with this word, which is more or less a big sigh, e.g. "Ah, my heart!". Any Greek willing to confirm this information?
vizjaqtaar said:
I am getting some of my facts mixed here. From what I read in "official" history, Tito tried to balance the influence of all nationalities.. Or am I mistaken? I remmeber learning that in order to contain the influence of the Serbs he did give partial autonomy to the Southern province of Kosovo and to the Northern province of Vojvodina (sp?), although of course the kosovar Albanians would have preferred to have their own Republic like the other (six) major nationalities. From what you write, though, it sounds like there was an identity between the Titoist regime and the Serbian interests.
Cuthalion said:
What does the symbol mean?
I need to get back to work instead of discussing history and bad music.
Vizjaqtaar
Blue!... No, yellooou..
Ekhm hehe, I didn't want to say Tito was Slovenian and he was acting like a Serb, I meant the kids.
Well, Serbs are the biggest nation from the ex-Jugoslavija so they always thought that they were the ones who took care of the other smaller countries like Slovenia after WW1 (which actually is partially true). The problem was that because of that they thought everyone else has to obey them and act like they say.
Tito held Yugoslavia together until his death in 1980, but aferwards it was going straight down. The country was in depth and there were again problems Slo, Cro -> Serbia (I don't really know much about other countries). Serbia wasn't happy with Slovenia and Croatia hindering it, Slovenia and Croatia felt threatened by the Serbs, the Serbian nationalist Miloević came to power, our neighbouring countries were also trying to break up Yugoslavia to profit... then it just exploded.
Small countries like Slovenia and Croatia probably wouldn't be able to resist the Soviet union but Yugoslavia together could - but times had changed and I think Jugoslavia's time was over.
peace
Well, Serbs are the biggest nation from the ex-Jugoslavija so they always thought that they were the ones who took care of the other smaller countries like Slovenia after WW1 (which actually is partially true). The problem was that because of that they thought everyone else has to obey them and act like they say.
Tito held Yugoslavia together until his death in 1980, but aferwards it was going straight down. The country was in depth and there were again problems Slo, Cro -> Serbia (I don't really know much about other countries). Serbia wasn't happy with Slovenia and Croatia hindering it, Slovenia and Croatia felt threatened by the Serbs, the Serbian nationalist Miloević came to power, our neighbouring countries were also trying to break up Yugoslavia to profit... then it just exploded.
Small countries like Slovenia and Croatia probably wouldn't be able to resist the Soviet union but Yugoslavia together could - but times had changed and I think Jugoslavia's time was over.
peace
Vizjaqtaar said:
Care to elaborate? I find it kind of hard to believe that the Italian government in the 1980s could think up such an action, for several reasons - mainly, at the time the general foreign policy strategy entailed a mediator/broker role rather than setting a beat. So you must be talking about other neighbors and honestly I don't know anything about attitudes to the Balkans of countries North or South.
This is another point that deserves attention - how Titoist Yugoslavia was communist but never signed the Warsaw Pact. I had a bit of a diplomatic incident over that some years ago and now I will never forget, but I do have a leftover question: was that for real (the separation, not the lack of signature to the Pact) or was that a facade? In other words, what was the level of strategic co-operation? Economic integration? What was the balance of power?
I should catch a train, come to visit you all and bring presents for all the information you're giving me.
There are some conspiracy theories about the breaking up of Yugoslavia, some mention the americans and some say that since the cold war was over they didn't really need Yugoslavia as a balance point. I don't know, maybe you should seek out some more dependable sources on the internet.
They say that one of the biggest qualities Tito had was his power to be in good relations with both sides. After WWII Yugoslavia was very close to Stalin's SSSR, but somewhere around 1947 there was a breakdown in Tito-Stalin relations and since Yugoslavia was in real danger of becoming invaded by the USSSR Tito turned to the USA who were more than happy to gain some influence here. He never entered any pacts instead he later started the group of Untied or Unconnected countries (i'm not sure bout the name) along with India, Egypt, Etiopia etc. But that was later
For example, Yugoslavia needed credits and loans, so if the Russians didn't want to give Tito the asked amount of money he would immidiately invite the americans to participate in a war excercise (drill) on the Adriatic sea. And since both SSSR and USA wanted Yugoslavia on their side or at least neutral (this was during the worst of the Cold War) they did anything they did to keep Yugoslavia happy
As for the Four S sybol it stands for Only Concordia (Concord) Saves the Serbs (Samo Sloga Srbe Spasava).
They say that one of the biggest qualities Tito had was his power to be in good relations with both sides. After WWII Yugoslavia was very close to Stalin's SSSR, but somewhere around 1947 there was a breakdown in Tito-Stalin relations and since Yugoslavia was in real danger of becoming invaded by the USSSR Tito turned to the USA who were more than happy to gain some influence here. He never entered any pacts instead he later started the group of Untied or Unconnected countries (i'm not sure bout the name) along with India, Egypt, Etiopia etc. But that was later
For example, Yugoslavia needed credits and loans, so if the Russians didn't want to give Tito the asked amount of money he would immidiately invite the americans to participate in a war excercise (drill) on the Adriatic sea. And since both SSSR and USA wanted Yugoslavia on their side or at least neutral (this was during the worst of the Cold War) they did anything they did to keep Yugoslavia happy
As for the Four S sybol it stands for Only Concordia (Concord) Saves the Serbs (Samo Sloga Srbe Spasava).
marduk1507
Member
Serbia should be more than thankful for the mere fact that the US gave a fuck. Both in 1947 and 1996. Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1938 and 1968 werent so lucky - on the other hand, we both did it peacefully in 1989, and I thank God for that.
Vizjaqtaar
Blue!... No, yellooou..
Well, there are actually a lot of conspiracy theories about the breakup of Yugoslavia, from the deal between Serbia and Slovenia to other countries trying to break up Yugoslavia. I was too young to be bothered by politics back then so what I know is mostly from the internet and in school we never made it past the second WW. The ones who were interested were mostly Austria and Hungary because Yugoslavia was more of a closed market where everything was owned by the state and it wasn't that open to western capitalism and investments.Cuthalion said:
He was indeed a great diplomat with a lot of charisma and brains. As far as I know he also refused Stalin's help during the second WW so Stalin couldn't occupy Yugoslavia after the war like he did it with the east European countries.Cuthalion said:
Sometimes you might also see people with 3 fingers up (thumb, index and middle) and as far as I know that means Srbija do Tokija - Serbia to Tokio. Quite optimistic eh?Cuthalion said:
At least they have spirit I guess.edit:
Cuthalion where are you from anyway? Bulgaria?
and Marduk you're from Slovakia right?As far as I know Marduk is from Slovakia and Cuthalion is from FYROM/Macedonia but please don't blame me for another discussion on the country's name, I am just a neutral observer with a passion for history and a weakness for tigers.
by the way, thanks again for the plethora of information. i'll come back with more questions.
by the way, thanks again for the plethora of information. i'll come back with more questions.
Oh well, i wouldn't get into a fight about the name again. And that's mainly for 3 reasons: a) i like Cuthalion, b) if my own country's politicians have let it get to this (own interests or lack of care?) why should i bother, c) i'm too weary to fight for such things.
Political devices, that divide perfectly nice people who could greatly benefit from interaction in many ways, only to serve the dubious purposes of politicians, have my utmost contempt.
As for the "Ax!" music, i have to admit i have never heard of it. I would probably recognise the genre of this music had i listened to it, but this description leaves me somewhat confused. Maybe it's something the northeners use as a term? I wouldn't know. What i do have to contribute to this high-level-music discussion is the profound lyrics of one of our currently most popular greek songs:
i will swallow you
just like an espresso.
And with this i will make my exit, leaving you to ponder on that.
hint 1: swallow. who the fuck swallows an espresso?
hint 2: the singer is a male. the image projected is that of the words being told to a woman. so this makes even less sense.
Political devices, that divide perfectly nice people who could greatly benefit from interaction in many ways, only to serve the dubious purposes of politicians, have my utmost contempt.
As for the "Ax!" music, i have to admit i have never heard of it. I would probably recognise the genre of this music had i listened to it, but this description leaves me somewhat confused. Maybe it's something the northeners use as a term? I wouldn't know. What i do have to contribute to this high-level-music discussion is the profound lyrics of one of our currently most popular greek songs:
i will swallow you
just like an espresso.
And with this i will make my exit, leaving you to ponder on that.
hint 1: swallow. who the fuck swallows an espresso?
hint 2: the singer is a male. the image projected is that of the words being told to a woman. so this makes even less sense.
rahvin
keeper of the flame
Siren said:
that's right. you quaff it, trying to completely miss your mouth if possible.
*loses his monocle*
wasn't that one naughty joke.
marduk1507
Member
Vizjaqtaar said:Sometimes you might also see people with 3 fingers up (thumb, index and middle) and as far as I know that means Srbija do Tokija - Serbia to Tokio. Quite optimistic eh?
I don't believe that this is the case. The Serbian and the other Orthodox people in genereal use three fingers while doing the thing with your hand in the shape of a cross (don't know the english word, crucifix?). The three fingers represent the holy trinity of the father the son and the holy spirit or whatever. I beleieve that Croatians and Slovenians do the crucifix thing with two fingers so there you have it
@Siren I like you too
And how about that greek song from a few years ago, something about a girl called Maria and she had a yellow dress and people used to break lots of plates during that song. A friend of mine in greece translated the song for me but i have forgotten it by now- Status
