ShredHeadJHJ
oh noes itz a opinionn
I don't know why they go through all the trouble... & American Beauty was a great flick.
Elitist music?
- Thread starter Personified Hatred
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I don't know why they go through all the trouble... & American Beauty was a great flick.
BlackMetalWhiteGuy
Manly Man!
The emo and indie scenes seem to be the most prolific circle jerkers around in my experience. So much so in fact, that a lot of them won't even associate with people who listen to different music.
Also, anyone who has "classic" musical taste seems to be really elitist about it, but they try to legitimize their preference with ad populum arguments and appeals to tradition, rather than acknowledging any inherent musical qualities or characteristics. For example, about a month and a half ago when I worked in a deli, this one kid listened to the same crap every single day. One of my co-workers and I eventually got sick of hearing some hippie yell "one love" every few seconds and asked him to turn it off or let us listen to something else. In response he exclaimed "this is Bob Marley," which was pretty disrespectful considering that he completely disregarded our position, and managed to throw a bare assertion fallacy into the mix in the process. Ironically though, those who apply the appeal to tradition to artists like Bob Marley, Bob Dylan and the Beetles tend to be completely averse to any exposure to real classical music.
As for metal elitism, I think this is most rampant in bands who strive for "tr00ness." Personally, I don't view myself as an elitist though, because while I certainly have exclusive taste, I don't feel like I'm enlightened because of it; I just like different music. In fact, I'm probably a lot less elitist than most peeople, because I can't imagine ever using "this is Necrophagist!" as a defense against listening to something else, or as justification for why they can't not like it.
Also, anyone who has "classic" musical taste seems to be really elitist about it, but they try to legitimize their preference with ad populum arguments and appeals to tradition, rather than acknowledging any inherent musical qualities or characteristics. For example, about a month and a half ago when I worked in a deli, this one kid listened to the same crap every single day. One of my co-workers and I eventually got sick of hearing some hippie yell "one love" every few seconds and asked him to turn it off or let us listen to something else. In response he exclaimed "this is Bob Marley," which was pretty disrespectful considering that he completely disregarded our position, and managed to throw a bare assertion fallacy into the mix in the process. Ironically though, those who apply the appeal to tradition to artists like Bob Marley, Bob Dylan and the Beetles tend to be completely averse to any exposure to real classical music.
As for metal elitism, I think this is most rampant in bands who strive for "tr00ness." Personally, I don't view myself as an elitist though, because while I certainly have exclusive taste, I don't feel like I'm enlightened because of it; I just like different music. In fact, I'm probably a lot less elitist than most peeople, because I can't imagine ever using "this is Necrophagist!" as a defense against listening to something else, or as justification for why they can't not like it.
Dead Winter
STAHP
I can't stand Bob Marley...the funny thing is, there's nothing to be elitist about in any way, shape or form with Bob Marley.
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
I am incredibly elitist. I believe my taste to be far superior to that of those who aren't as open-minded as me.
DarkBliss
...And okra for all
I should have first checked the thread where that Burzum review was posted. Sorry, my bad.
Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
- 6,821
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most people agree that Venom are the originators of BM though personally I'd go with Bathory.
also i like Darkthrone and Burzum yet I also like most Dimmu and CoF's early stuff... so... yeah
Then explain the love for the new Averse Sefira, the last two Gorguts albums, the second Pessimist album, the second and third Morbid Angel albums, Suffo's "Pierced", Sinister's "Hate", later Graveland, etc.
I've never seen anyone claim that Leprosy through Human aren't death metal, but Scream Bloody Gore is questionable and nothing after Human is.
Please, find where someone said these.
Beyond Sanctorum is easily their best album, and their new stuff is just watered-down schmaltz masquerading as "metal".* "Therion's early stuff is much better than their shitty "Gothic Kabbalah" album"(OK, that's just one that pisses me off)
This one is true- Pestilence is always too cute for their own good, and while I don't think that "Final Holocaust" is the best death metal album ever, it IS an excellent piece of energetic Slayer-influenced death metal.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Why do people always say this? It's not fucking true. Tell me how the new albums aren't metal.
DarkBliss
...And okra for all
Regarding Metallica not being metal, I think it was Scourge of God who said in one of his reviews(Ride the Lightning): Metallica was always a pop band at heart." But he doesn't write for their site, as far as I'm aware.
ShredHeadJHJ
oh noes itz a opinionn
Trust me, I've heard all those. I wouldn't lie about that.
I'm sure that there are reviews of albums where bands cleaned things up a little bit that have positive reviews over there, but the general census over there is the least raw something is the shittier it is
(pwned) Those are guyswho think that Death is the most pussy metal ever conceived on the planet.I think all of Death's work is death metal, some of the earlier stuff is just more thrashy & the later stuff is sometimes more experimental.
How people can say Beyond Sanctorum is Therion's best album is beyond me. I think their early work is some of the most generic easy-listening death metal I've ever heard in my entire life. While their newest album is definitely not as metal, it'smuch more mature, the playing is much better, there are far more sound textures, & the songwriting is actually memorable & concise.
I just think Pestilence is far better than Massacra, but Massacra are pretty damn good. Pestilence are one of the very best thrash/death bands from that era IMO. Massacra are just more extreme. Better stuff for OMG br0000tal moshing, but not nearly as good songwriting IMO.
DarkBliss
...And okra for all
I tried so much to like Massacra, but the production on their albums is bad, and the music is so monotonous despite the never-ending cascade of riffs. All the songs after a while sound the same.
The general consensus over there is that Averse Sefira is the best band in metal right now and that later Gorguts is great. That fails to match your statement.
And, Death aside from Leprosy IS incredibly pussified, both lyrically and musically. It's like Dave Matthews Band attempting to be metal.
The riffs of the later albums have more in line with traditional metal than they do with death metal. Where's the chromatics?
You have heard Beyond Sanctorum, right? I'm not a big fan of "Of Darkness" or "Symphony Masses", but Beyond Sanctorum is anything BUT generic. There's absolutely nothing out there remotely like it. Their new material actually has less variety in texture (and, hell, less variety in general)- it uses more instrument voices, sure, but it fails at balancing and utilizing both harsh extremity and softer beauty like Beyond Sanctorum does.
ShredHeadJHJ
oh noes itz a opinionn
I don't like early Therion. I've heard it all many times. I might be getting Sanctorum confused with Of Darkness when I said what I said, but still I've heard Sanctorum many times. It's mostly all pretty boring shit to me, but so what. Maybe I'm just into more technical stuff with interesting riffs than most guys. I know a lot of people hate their new album. TBH I don't like much more stuff that they've done besides the new album, so maybe that gives you more of a direction of where my tastes are at. I like keyboards, guitar solos, & a progressive sound. Multiple vocalists are cool too if done right. Christopher Johansson has the cheesiest voice in all death metal.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I'm in complete agreement with ShredHead. The newer albums are far more mature. The songwriting is miles beyond what they did on their older albums. And personally, I find infinitely more texture and variety among the newer albums. And their songs are epic as hell.
Black Friday
Member
- Feb 18, 2008
- 1,186
- 0
- 36
I don't really mind it when people be close-minded, but I hate it when they give half-assed reasons. I can deal with "I just don't like it.", but I can't deal with "Fairy-Metal is for pussies" or "The only good metal is Br00tal". It fucking irks me to no end.
Any music that require a high levle of knowledge, skill and production will more than likely be considered elitist, just as certain types of writing are or certain types of movie making... especially if the artits is going out of his way to make the production much more difficult.
for example, it really isn't that hard now-a-days to buy a laptop, get a production program, a few sample cd's and a midi keyboard and pump out some dance muisc or ambient... but if said person goes and buys a sampler, and sample natural sound or obscure noise, or if they rewire their hardware synths etc. then it becoem elitist because they have changed the norm significantly.
As for heavy metal, I don't know many, but Blut Aus Nord is one I would consider somewhat elitist... whereas Mayhem try so hard to make themselves elitist they have become so famous for their fuckwittery and terrible production quality (on most releases) and pure try-hardness that they I know many metal bands Ihere locally just laugh at them (sorry if this insults any 'core fans of Mayhem, I do like their Chimera album, but their attitud and said fuckwittery just make me laugh)...
anyways rant ends here... but hopefully you get what I mean
for example, it really isn't that hard now-a-days to buy a laptop, get a production program, a few sample cd's and a midi keyboard and pump out some dance muisc or ambient... but if said person goes and buys a sampler, and sample natural sound or obscure noise, or if they rewire their hardware synths etc. then it becoem elitist because they have changed the norm significantly.
As for heavy metal, I don't know many, but Blut Aus Nord is one I would consider somewhat elitist... whereas Mayhem try so hard to make themselves elitist they have become so famous for their fuckwittery and terrible production quality (on most releases) and pure try-hardness that they I know many metal bands Ihere locally just laugh at them (sorry if this insults any 'core fans of Mayhem, I do like their Chimera album, but their attitud and said fuckwittery just make me laugh)...
anyways rant ends here... but hopefully you get what I mean
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
Zephyrus
Tyrants and Slaves
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