Finland

wow must have been hard on you, i cant see myself trying to negotiate a job in such a place with "E-T-K-Ö S-I-N-Ä Y-M-M-Ä-R-R-Ä ?" lol id run for my life. Metal sure is strong driving force YEAAAAAA "missä vitussa minun housut on?" <<does that mean my balls are freezed to the pavement ,I need a blanket?
 
Hey fenrir, how did you go about moving to Finland? I have no clue how I would manage something like that, seeing as I dont have any family over there or anything... I'm planning on learning the language before I get there, but If I move right when I get out of high schoool, would there be available jobs at record stores or whatnot? I'm hoping to eventually get in a band, but to pay the rent before that all happens...


Speaking of rent, is Helsinki cheap to live in?
 
RideForVengance said:
Speaking of rent, is Helsinki cheap to live in?

I don't think so... I guess it would be cheaper to live in the suburbs or in a smaller town north from Helsinki. I live in Tampere and the rents here are somewhat reasonable 'though this is one of the biggest cities in Finland.
 
Fenrir13 said:
Your first winter here will be hell. Mark my words. It's not the cold, it's the dark. I work at night, sleep in day, so i didn't see the sun(it was only up a few hours) for about 1.5 months.

YES Just how i like it. i hate the sun so much that all the curtains are extra thick and dont let light thru and i only leave the house to go to school (among other things)
 
Hey RideForVengeance, thanks for starting this topic. I've been casually considering moving to somewhere in the UK eventually. I think I'm like you, I just don't like the way this country is headed. Also I feel like change is coming, and I'm not so sure I'm going to want to be here when it happens.

i have questions, too.

Dear Europeans,
I'm a dumbass American who only speaks English and a little bit of Mexican-Spanish. Are there public schools in the uk where i could go (maybe at night) to, say, learn German? I am under the impression that German is a pretty widespread language in northwestern europe. If i knew english and german (and perhaps my scraps of spanish), could i travel pretty easily?

I've heard that taxes are very tolerable in Ireland and it's been experiencing a lot of growth in the past ~10 years.
 
I don't know about european schools, but German is a fairly common language, and you could learn it pretty easily in the US. Not only are there lots of books on it, but you should be able to take private lessons, especially if you live in large cities like LA or Philly. Now Finnish, thats a different storry. I reasearched this and found that only 5 or 6 colledges in the US offer degrees in finnish.

German is nice and easy for us Americans, I know a bit myself... The fact that English is a Germanic language makes it relatively easy. German is also pretty phonetic, all though some of the grammar is weird. For instance, I think you would say: "The turnip, she is in the kitchen ,the girl, it is here."

Aus Deutschland, alles ist wundebar! .... In Germany, everything is wonderfull!

Bier ist gut! .... Beer is good!

Ich bin ein Amerikaner. .... I am an American.

Kinder von Bodom sind uber geschickt. .... Children of bodom are super skilled (not so sure about that one)


I never knew that much German, and I havent spoken it in a while, but I'm hoping to learn, along with Finnish.
 
"Ich und du, Müller's Kuh, Müller's Esel das bist du."

=

"Me and you, miller's cow, miller's jackass, that's you."

:lol:
 
nikon87 said:
Well I honestly think Finland has the best metal scene in Europe. Bruce Dickinson said that he thinks that ''Helsinki is the metal capital of ... '' was it scandinavia or europe ? Anyway it's pretty good. I mean a lot of good metal bands come from Finland.



Well all I've heard about Norway is that it can be quite expensive to live there, because it is a rich oil country. (And they eat a lot of cod . :D )

And Sweden, well, most finns think that Sweden is a gay country.
Dunno why .... (And I'd rather not comment that issue.) I don't really know about Sweden's taxes or anything about stuff like that. But I have say to that some people in Finland talk swedish too. (And some talk ONLY swedish).
And we have to learn swedish in school. For a finn , swedish sounds very stupid. (As well as finnish sounds stupid for a swede.) And what about swedish words then ? å=river, ö=island. But for an american swedish would be a lot easier than finnish.

Anyways, as said before, Finland has a very beautiful nature. The winter is rather long and cold, but you'll get used to it. The summer can be hot, not always though, I mean it rained the last summer. (Somehow I like autumn best. Cannot really explain why.) I have noticed that during winters I miss summer and during this hot July I really miss winter.

Excuse me for being nosey, is there much difference between the Finish, Swedish or Norwegian languages? Like for example Ive been told that the Dutch and German languages are completely different and they dont understand each other, yet they appear to be very similar, perhaps to someone that speaks neither language (such as me).
 
Turbo said:
Excuse me for being nosey, is there much difference between the Finish, Swedish or Norwegian languages? Like for example Ive been told that the Dutch and German languages are completely different and they dont understand each other, yet they appear to be very similar, perhaps to someone that speaks neither language (such as me).

Swedish and Norwegian are quite similar, but Finnish is very different.

Probably the only language that is more or less similar to Finnish is Estonian.
 
Swedish and Norwegian (I think) are heavily influenced by danish, i think.
Finnish is a Finoeric language, which originated somewhere in around Russia or even deeper into asia.
 
SILENT(_)SCREAM said:
Fenrir13 said:
Your first winter here will be hell. Mark my words. It's not the cold, it's the dark. I work at night, sleep in day, so i didn't see the sun(it was only up a few hours) for about 1.5 months.

YES Just how i like it. i hate the sun so much that all the curtains are extra thick and dont let light thru and i only leave the house to go to school (among other things)
same here
 
RideForVengance said:
I've always wondered... whats it like in Finland?

Social scientists are working to solve the 'Finnish problem'

Finland has a problem: it is Europe’s most homogenous society, including a large ratio of fair-haired citizens. In short, it is a picture of the past. Like other European nations, Finland’s birthrate is declining. However, have no fear, as the world’s most prestigious social scientists have a solution to Finland’s problem: simply import radically different third-world immigrants, forever changing the genetic makeup of Finland, making it more ‘in tune’ with the new, modern Europe.

Surprisingly, the Finnish are resisting the replacement of the Finnish population with non-Europeans. In fact, they are “allergic to immigration,” according to Spanish-born social scientist Manuel Castells, currently living the consumer’s paradise: the United States.

Castells has complained that immigrants barely make up 2 percent of Finland’s population. Truly, the situation is desperate. How can Finland continue to exist without the precious influx of non-European immigration? Well, the social scientists are on top of things, and Finland is slated to be saved. Already, there are 4,700 Somalis in Finland, and with a massive influx of non-Europeans, the “Finnish problem” may soon be solved, and Finland will begin to look more like the “New Europe.”

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=5278


[size=+2]A Blond Nation, in a Bind on Immigrants[/size]
[size=-1]By Robert G. Kaiser
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, June 11, 2005; A12
[/size]



HELSINKI -- Finland is Europe's most homogenous society, a nation of mostly blond ethnic Finns whose declining birthrate creates the classic 21st-century European dilemma: a fast-growing population of senior citizens whose promised benefits under a generous welfare state will soon be unaffordable.

To compensate for fewer Finnish births, the country could encourage foreigners to immigrate, a subject much discussed here. But like most of Europe, "Finland is allergic to immigration," in the words of Manuel Castells, the renowned Spanish-born sociologist who lives in the United States.

Castells, a professor at the University of Southern California and a student of Finland since the mid-1990s, chided Finns at a seminar in Helsinki last week. "Either you make more babies," he told them, "or you make immigrants."

But that is easier said than done, as Castells quickly acknowledged. Finnish women, enjoying careers and other fruits of the relative gender equality here, "are on strike," he said, when it comes to bearing children in large numbers. As a result, Finland is "a small country with an endangered culture."

Altogether, immigrants constitute barely 2 percent of Finland's population of 5.2 million. There were 108,346 foreign-born residents at the end of 2004, according to government statistics. Of those, fewer than 25,000 were born in non-white countries whose residents would look conspicuous on the streets of Helsinki. Russians, Estonians and Swedes together represent more than 46,000 people.

The 4,700 Somali refugees in the country, by far the largest group of black people, get more attention in the local news media than all the other immigrants combined, according to Finns. The country continues to accept political asylum seekers -- it is now taking in a group of Montagnard hill people who fled Vietnam.

In principle, Finns often support the idea of immigration. In an interview, Eero Huovinen, the Lutheran bishop of Helsinki (Lutheranism is Finland's official religion), noted that the state had "been very careful, sometimes too much so," about immigration. But he added, "For human, moral and practical reasons, I think we have to take more people, people who are willing to work here."

Finland is the only major European country that has generated no far-right, anti-immigrant political party. Some Finns suggest that may be because their egalitarian Lutheran values simply won't tolerate an open appeal to racist sentiments, though they admit that such feelings exist.

Yet Finnish laws and regulations discourage immigration -- as do the difficulties of the Finnish language and the long, dark winters here. Nokia, often referred to as a "miracle" by Finns because it has become one of the world's high-tech success stories and a rich global company, has attracted an international workforce to fill some key positions, but in this and many other respects, it is a unique Finnish institution.

Finns don't really want to think about the fact that more immigration is going to be needed, said Jalsoon Ally, 28, an ethnic Pakistani who grew up in southern Africa and graduated from Smith College in Northampton, Mass. Ally is engaged to a Finn and is completing a graduate degree in international relations at Helsinki University. "I get the feeling that quite a lot of dallying is going on," she said. "And not much frank conversation. It's a kind of conscious blindness."

Ally has lived here for years, and speaks perfect Finnish, according to her Finnish friends. Because she has been living with her boyfriend for more than two years, she's "legally a spouse," she said. This has given her unusual access to Finnish life, and she is an attentive observer.

Finns will "most likely switch to English" when they meet her, Ally said, and are "always surprised" to learn she speaks Finnish well. Some of her Finnish friends were born here to immigrant parents, she said, and they share her frustration at that kind of response. "There's this very clear idea that if you look different, you can't be Finnish," she said, adding that these Finnish natives were often asked, "Where are you really from?"

Another immigrant with an interesting perspective on diversity in Finland is Ajay Meswani, a schoolteacher. The son of an American mother and an Indian father, he grew up in Philadelphia. He met his Finnish wife at a Danish teachers college where both were students, and they now have a son and a daughter born in Finland. Meswani has many kind things to say about the country, particularly its education system and social services. But he also makes clear that life can be hard here for someone who looks like him.

"There are so few immigrants in Finland, people aren't used to having foreigners around," he said in an interview. The consequences can be complicated. He regularly suffers what Americans would consider snubs, but he knows enough about the reticent, chilly Finnish personality to realize that at least some of these incidents can be entirely innocent.

When he started teaching art at a Helsinki primary school, he said, "I was completely put off by people's total lack of interest in me." On the first day, he walked into the teachers' room, where his new colleagues were carrying on a conversation. "No one stopped, my presence wasn't even acknowledged," he said. "It really made me angry. It was hard not to think it was deliberate -- but it really wasn't." This, he said, is the way Finns treat each other.

Whatever the motivation, the effect on Meswani is wearing. The only real friends he has here, he said, are friends of his wife, Riita. "The hardest thing for me is when I make an effort to greet someone and I get either a blank stare or a scowl. It has happened many times. It's very strange."

Finland is not monocultural. It was part of Sweden for centuries, and from 1809 to 1917, it was part of Russia. Both cultures left populations in Finland that have helped shaped the country's national identity. The Swedish minority, about 6 percent of the population, enjoys special protections, and Swedish remains the official second language. There is a long-standing Roma, or Gypsy, population, as well as an indigenous people in Lapland, in the far north, who call themselves Sami.

But in its 88-year history as an independent country, Finland has become remarkably homogenous. Many Finns believe this has helped the country repeatedly undertake substantial reforms that have altered life here in ways many other societies would have resisted. The Finns have done it, moreover, on the basis of a broad political consensus that still largely holds.

Guided by a widely accepted elite, Finland transformed itself from a backward rural nation into an industrial force in the 30 years after World War II, then remade itself again into a rich, high-tech powerhouse in the last 30 years. Finland is rated the least corrupt nation in the world by Transparency International, a Berlin-based international research group.

Castells, the sociologist, calls Finland's government "the most legitimate government in Europe," meaning it enjoys the highest degree of acceptance and deference from its people. That is one of the reasons, Finns say, that immigration is such a delicate issue. Opposition to it is widespread, by many accounts, but also muted.

"There are a lot of prejudices, unfortunately," against foreigners, said Risto Siilasmaa, 39, a software entrepreneur who runs an Internet security company. "We still live in a very isolated environment. That's going to take decades to change."

A Web site sponsored by the Finnish Ministry for Foreign Affairs ( http://www.virtual.finland.fi/ ) features an article on foreigners in Finland that includes the comment: "Negative attitudes and xenophobia among the main population towards foreigners are still present."

Ordinary people don't understand assertions by intellectuals and members of Finland's elite that immigration is necessary, "when we have 10 percent unemployment," said Miapetra Kumpula, a 33-year-old Social Democratic member of the Finnish Parliament. Officials say the unemployed tend to be aging workers who lack the skills for the new information-based jobs the country is creating.

Ten percent is the overall unemployment figure. But a government report this spring noted that unemployment among ethnic Finns was 9 percent, compared with 29 percent among immigrants. "A lot of highly trained immigrants have had to take menial jobs," if they could gets jobs at all.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/10/AR2005061001860_pf.html
 
Heavenscent said:
Swedish and Norwegian (I think) are heavily influenced by danish, i think.
Finnish is a Finoeric language, which originated somewhere in around Russia or even deeper into asia.
well.. thats somewhat true.. if you know danish you understand most of norwegian and swedish (most likely) same goes if your norwegian.. If you know swedish you dont know shit :loco: haha well.. they kinda understand norwegian but danish is a bit too hard for em..
 
Well Torgoth, that doesnt sound to good, but I dont really fit in too well over here either, being the pretty much the only person in my town of 10,000 that is serriously into metal or has long hair. I guess the main question is: If I move to finland, will people reject my efforts to fit in, or will it just be difficult? That article makes it sound like the fins will just be complete assholes to me simply cause I have dark hair or I wont be totally fluent at first. Which is strange, because other people said that fins were shy and quiet, but not in a bad way... that makes it seem like people would be cold and rejecting.


Personally, what do you guys think? Are you really against foreigners, or do you think it'd be really hard for an American to live in Finland, or make friends? Cause part of the reason I dislike the US is that I feel so completely detached from everyone... so there wouldnt be any point to moving to a country where you feel just as alienated, only its really cold.
 
RideForVengance said:
Well Torgoth, that doesnt sound to good, but I dont really fit in too well over here either, being the pretty much the only person in my town of 10,000 that is serriously into metal or has long hair. I guess the main question is: If I move to finland, will people reject my efforts to fit in, or will it just be difficult? That article makes it sound like the fins will just be complete assholes to me simply cause I have dark hair or I wont be totally fluent at first. Which is strange, because other people said that fins were shy and quiet, but not in a bad way... that makes it seem like people would be cold and rejecting.


Personally, what do you guys think? Are you really against foreigners, or do you think it'd be really hard for an American to live in Finland, or make friends? Cause part of the reason I dislike the US is that I feel so completely detached from everyone... so there wouldnt be any point to moving to a country where you feel just as alienated, only its really cold.

I guess Fenrir would probably be the best here to answer this, but I don't think that the article is completely accurate. There is some racism, yes, but it's in every country and I don't think it's really a big issue here compared to some other places. If you don't look like a somalian or a gypsy you won't probably even notice it.

About the language, Finns are _very_ restricted if they can't converse fluently. You speak English so it should be no problem either. And getting finns drunk is the easiest way in the world to make friends :loco:

Most finns are quite friendly and like having lots of friends no matter if they're foreigners or not.
 
Well, well. I'm a finn and i have traveled alot (i think i've been in 14 countries) and i think that all the western (or maybe rather Christian) countries are more or less the same. People, language and maybe some social structures are different, but in general it wont be that different. I do not suggest anyone to move to Finland becouse they like a finnish band or just metal, sure metal is quite big in Finland, but it's just a genre of music after all, it does not change your life much if you see few more long haired guys walking down the street than in your home does it? And what comes to the finnish mentality, or what ever one calls it, i dont sign the thing that finns - or a strereotypic finn - are shy, i think shy is a wrong word. Quiet or melancholic would be better. But this is usually just in general in every-day-lives, finns usually are themselves only when with their friends, mostly drinking lots of alcohol. So if one plans to move to Finland it might be good that one would have friends or somekind of a group to hang out with in there, becouse otherwise it may be a little lonely unless you find friends quickly. Also the language will be a huge problem simply becouse you cannot follow their discussions to learn it. You simply do not understand anything for finnish is not an indo-european (or what ever is the correct term) language. German, swedish or almoust all other european languages have alot similaritys with english, so if you hear the language daily you soon learn to understand it as you can guess the meaning of most words.