Future Thoughts / Suggestions

You two are seriously pissing me off right now.

BOTH of you (IE - Bob and Neil) have also stated MANY times that a fest is about the package as a whole and not one or two individual bands. Sure, I do agree that Virgin Steele and Wizard may not be the truest of the true, but they aren't exactly Edguy or Sonata Arctica. Personally, I thought Wizard kicked serious arse! I wasn't there for Virgin Steele. I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing ,as both those bands, albeit not as "true" metal as others, fit well and helped bring in different people. I don't think you can worry about "what band at what spot on the lineup drew the most people" That's not what its about. Its about trying to attract attention for the fest to as many different fans without straying TOO far off course.
 
J. Golden said:
The town did not strike me as being that bad at all; I have seen a lot worse. Plus the club layout can't be beaten.
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I really love the layout of the place I'll admit. I just think they need to wise up on the alcohol thing on the lower floor. If what I heard is true, it was due to problems on NYE but for crying out loud, that's NYE of course there would be problems. That and having a better audio guy of course would be grand, though I don't know if that was their's or someone just for the fest.
 
Stop complaining about Wizard not fitting the festival. I think they fit just find. Yes they are a power metal band but they arent what everyone calls a power metal band. They arent this crazy over-synthesized madness that is beyond over the top. In fact they dont even have a synth! It is just 5 guys playing 5 instruments (yes voice is an instrument) and what they make is pure unadultered heavy metal. Isnt that what true metal is all about? That what i believe true metal to be. So stop bitching about Wizard not fitting the bill. And if it wasnt for Odin and Thor, none of us would ever see this band. And they kicked major asss, definitely get the award for best showmanship from me. Ive never seen a band get a crowd so involved in every song since Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickinson.
 
Oh, I think all the bands fit the bill. Just the ones headlining were not the ones bringing in the people. Neil seems to think because they are headlining they will be the ones drawing in the crowds. As Jason said...it is the full line up that brings in most. Mark my words...if Virgin Steele switched with Voltax the same people would have been there watching Voltax and the same people who left for Virgin Steele would have been drinking or outside. Honestly...this was pretty much a solid line up from start to finish.
 
Diabolik said:
Actually all the hispanic guys and gals there were there to see Voltax.
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Yeah, I can believe that, except the numbers of the Mexican Posse were so small it was barely noticeable. I actually expected it to be much more of a force, but it seemed to me like half the (obvious) Hispanics there were members of Voltax! Are you sure it wasn't just the dudes from Voltax you were talking to telling you they were there to see Voltax? :loco:

Diabolik said:
I could have told you days before that people were going to leave before Virgin Steele and Wizard...
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Me too, because that's what happens at every show, especially festivals. Some people leave when it gets late. I was at a show last night (Dark Dark Dark at the Hideout, total glasses-core, you would have loved it!), and the place was completely packed for the direct support, but then half-empty by the end of Dark Dark Dark's set. You would say it's because everyone was actually there to see the direct support, but everyone else in the world would say it was because it was 1am on a Tuesday night.

Diabolik said:
Neil seems to think because they are headlining they will be the ones drawing in the crowds.
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Not exactly, you have cause and effect reversed; I think the bands with the biggest fanbases draw the biggest crowds, and any concert promoter who isn't a moron selects the bands with the biggest fanbases to be his headliners. Even if someone isn't a particular fan of the headliners and are more fans of the "whole package", they're less likely to consider going to the show at all if it's just some bands that they've barely heard of even if it's a genre they like. Heck, I bet a bunch of the lower-tier BANDS would be less interested in coming without the headliners, because they know no one would show up to watch them if not for the bigger bands on the bill.

So you talked to some people who were there to see Voltax. I already told you about three people who weren't there to see Voltax. For some reason the people you talked to form a complete and unbiased sample space from which you can draw rock-solid conclusions, while the people I talked to don't count. Maybe you think I'm lying. Where can we find more data? Let's check, I dunno, The Ragnarokkr UM forum. Here are the bands mentioned in your what is everyone looking forward to this year thread:

Pharaoh: 3
Brocas Helm: 3
Wizard: 2
Virgin Steele: 2
Slauter Xstroyes: 2
Damien Thorne: 2
Blacksmith: 1
Stone Magnum: 1
Borrowed Time: 1

And,

Voltax: wait for it......


wait for it.....


ZERO!

Yet somehow if they would have gotten rid of the headliners, leaving Voltax and a similar band to top the bill, and had it in a smaller place, they would have drawn twice as many people as they did. Okaaay.... :loco:
 
I am going to cut to the chase here and get to the heart of the matter.
I believe what Bob is trying to convey is that the headliners were probably not worth their cost.
While that would be true if this was just a one of random show,as I said, it's about the whole package.

I too agree that if the direct support and headliner flip flopped on any day of the Fest the same damn thing would have happened. It is a fact city or suburbs that once the midnight hour approaches people head for their cars. It happened last year and we predicted it to happen this year and it did.
 
Jasonic said:
the headliners were probably not worth their cost.
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Agreed! Or, more generally, "the bands in total weren't worth their cost" since it sounds like the promoters didn't break even, though we don't know what was spent on the headliners. From the FB page, it sounds like maybe *only* the headliners (I dunno, top 4) were paid?

Also from that FB comment thread, if there *is* another one of these, I think I can tell you 4 potential bands who definitely will NOT be appearing next year! :lol:
 
Justin Gaines said:
Anyone else think the ticket prices were too low for the size of the event?
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This is an excellent point.

Let's face it. This is "underground" metal.
Unless there is a really high profile reunion or booking of someone who would attract attention of older fans not so in tune with today's underground (IE - bands like Armored Saint, etc), it may not ever draw more than a couple hundred.

I don't think that's a bad thing though. It can continue this way as long as expenses are low. So, this is where ticket sales come in. Maybe not for 2013, but with one more successful year (and by successful, I mean from the fans perspective which this one was indeed!), they will have even more dedicated true "FANS" of the fest who will attend each year.

At that point, the fest can charge maybe $40 a day, as opposed to $25.
 
Ha, that is true. I mean, I like High Spirits too, but if Chris Black refuses to have any of his other bands play a future fest, I hardly doubt that would be a red flag day for the fest. Its a couple bands out of hundreds of potential bands in the States.
 
skyrefuge said:
What's funny is that, maybe unbeknownst to the promoters, the guy they instituted (threatened?) the lifetime ban on is not only in Pharaoh, but 3 other (Chicago) bands in the "heavy metal" sphere that could have been future options for this fest. Whoops! :lol:
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yeah...I just saw that as well. Not a bright move. Plus has lots of connections and freinds in the area. Looks like ole Bobby will have to mend those fences.
 
Justin Gaines said:
Anyone else think the ticket prices were too low for the size of the event?
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Of course that's impossible to know without knowing how price-sensitive the attendees and potential-attendees are, though in terms of "size of the event", it was already near the high end for Mojoe's. A lot of their shows are $10, with your Rhapsodys or Symphony Xs being $25.

Personally, given the demand/quality for this show, I already thought $25 was pretty high, and likely wouldn't have gone if it was more than that. But I'm not a very good True Metal Warrior willing to give his blood and money for Metal, so I might not be representative.
 
Yes, but it seems that the crowd was small and mighty.
I didn't really see a lot of people who came just to check it out.
(IE - not really many fence sitters for this one).
 
Jasonic said:
Yes, but it seems that the crowd was small and mighty.
I didn't really see a lot of people who came just to check it out.
(IE - not really many fence sitters for this one).
Click to expand...

yeah...it seemed like no fence sitters at all or just curious people. It seemed like most came for 1 or 2 bands and the rest of the time they were outside or upstairs.
 
$25-30 is a little on the high end, I would only pay that much provided that there were multiple bands I would want to see, or one band that it'd be my only chance to see that I'm a really big fan of. I would have probably paid $25 to see Wizard if I wasn't on their guest list, but for the following they have here in the states, I think that would be too much for most people considering amongst the younger generation, all the openers were no-names. To garner those prices, I think it would have to be a very recognized act and if that can't be done, it's better off going with $15-20 a day and cheaper bands from around the states. If we are trying to pull fans from states around the US, it would need to be a hell of a band for them to pay gas, hotel and ticket price to attend. I know I had a friend fly completely across the country when Manowar had their little mini tour. I know a band of that caliber would be expensive, but we would still need a big drawer to attract a large audience.
 
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