Necroraven
Member
- Nov 21, 2007
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That's how it's supposed to be, raw primal rage exprssessed in form of vocals. That's metal.
Power or no, they sound weak and shit.
Hatecrew Death Roll vs Are You Dead Yet, Blooddrunk and Relentless Reckless Forever
- Thread starter violentrl
- Start date
That's how it's supposed to be, raw primal rage exprssessed in form of vocals. That's metal.
Power or no, they sound weak and shit.
predator2353
Member
- Mar 1, 2010
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Tr00 dat, but then again I can only duplicate his old ones and it's impossible for me to get close to his new vocals. Probably because they are worn out and shit.
nettitaikatalvi
up goes the monkey...
I agree that the lyrics are messy and the vocals sux and of course the older albums are better but like they said in the interview I translated- they don't care if we'll change our mind because they have it forever so fortunately or unfortunately, we can't change anything 
But RRF is not that bad- Roundtrip To Hell And Back is kinda cool song and Shovel Knockout is nice..... Cry Of The Nihilist sounds cool but the lyrics are... weird? Idk, my opinion, but we all know that the first stuff are legendary so let's just try to like the new ones (just try...) and like a friend told me, try to listen to RRF like it's their first album and don't compare it to anything they did I know it sounds crazy but just sitting here and saying how sad/angry/disappointed we are won't help. In fact, they'll do whatever they wanna do.
But RRF is not that bad- Roundtrip To Hell And Back is kinda cool song and Shovel Knockout is nice..... Cry Of The Nihilist sounds cool but the lyrics are... weird? Idk, my opinion, but we all know that the first stuff are legendary so let's just try to like the new ones (just try...) and like a friend told me, try to listen to RRF like it's their first album and don't compare it to anything they did I know it sounds crazy but just sitting here and saying how sad/angry/disappointed we are won't help. In fact, they'll do whatever they wanna do.^I listened to the first minute of the first video and it's pretty good. When will COB understand/remember their special skill is in creating genious melodic sequences backed by clever riffs, catchy beats and moody synths. They're not rock'n'roll and they're not the heaviest shit out there. At least they could do the thrashing riffing faster and more catchy and effective. With a negative perspective: it's like they try to make dark rock and it ends up being happy thrash.
eveningninja
Skull Kid
I can't tell if you're joking or not by saying "that's metal." Metal musicians aren't cavemen. Technique is used.My feelings about his old vocals.
Necroraven
Member
- Nov 21, 2007
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Of course techique is used, but only to a certain extent. Techique is a tool, not the goal. I have a huge dislike for everything labeled as "prog" or "tech", and usually such bands usually tend to be as gay and un-metal as possible. But I guess we have a very different view on what's raw or what's metal. People are different, but for me (and most people) metal has always been about being extreme. Listen to early Morbid Angel, Blasphemy, Von, Manowar, Sodom, Darkthrone, Nihilist, Bathory etc., that's metal. Listen to music like Necrophagist. That's fucking gay. Being a caveman is a lot more metal, than being a maths professor.
I can understand you like the newer ones instead of the old, but seriously, the new vocals. Raw? Powerful? To me, they sound like pathetic croaking.
THIS. You put into simple words what I've been trying to explain viciously. Of course it's natural for bands like COB to incorporate impressive displays of techniques into their music, but when they lose the goal - which is good-sounding melodic death metal - all I see is wheels without a car.
The different perceptions of music are crazy but true. My bro thinks FTR is utterly dark while I see it as atmospheric and energetic, while he thinks of Disturbed as positive and energetic while I depressing and apathic.
vivebodom
New Metal Member
- Sep 20, 2011
- 149
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- 0
yes. technique is an essential component of getting what you want- if you can't technically do it then you can't do it.
of course, i wish technique were something that could just be tossed aside because that would make shit a hell of a lot fucking easier. but shit is hard. fact.
but i do understand the point of the argument here: some people rely so heavily on technique that although their playing is brilliant it is also boring.
etudes. snore.
there are some common misconceptions about technique such as people think technique is all about playing fast while tone is reserved for slow music. this is not true- technique is just as important for slow music and tone is equally important for fast music.
you know the fastest way to judge a musician's performance ability and overall musicality? ask them to play slow. (no pun intended) if it's not just as clean slow then their technique is bad. if it isn't musical and interesting slow then their musicality is in question (of course the music could also be in question there- playing Sousa slow generally sucks no matter the musicality of the performer)
instructor's note to performers found to have bad technique: play it slow with a metronome and lots of concentration (so you don't repeat and thereby learn bad technique just from not paying attention to yourself- muscle memory is great but it can be a real bitch when you've really learned to do it wrong) ten times before you gradually raise the tempo. start out real fucking slow. like a dirge slow (that's 40-50 bpm). move up in 10 bpm increments. ten times perfect every time before you move up again. if you fuck up you go down 5 bpm. again ten times perfect before you move on. the next day you do it ten times at the slowest tempo and five times at each faster tempo until you reach the tempo where your technique becomes metrically uneven (even just ever so slightly). do it at that tempo twenty times in a row perfectly. don't go past your maximum clean tempo on any given day. on subsequent days you can do three times in the middle range of tempos and five times at the lowest tempo. when you get past 110 bpm start going up in 5 bpm increments (this is also a great way to really memorize different tempos). when you fuck up go down three do it right ten times then back up three. do that right twenty times then PUT IT DOWN. ALWAYS PLAY IT REALLY FUCKING sLOW FIRST WHEN PRACTICING. that's the key. i know this is really goddamn motherfucking boring, but i promise you will be amazed at how quickly you improve. after a week you can skip from 50 to 100 provided of course that you have been doing it consistently perfect in the middle range. always do the 50 (even if it's just a couple of times- i know i said do more, but i also know that after a few days you will get especially irritated and skip ahead anyways). don't skip ahead- that is how technique gets sloppy and uneven. if you have learned something wrong (and i do mean really fucking wrong) PUT IT DOWN for a month before you pick it back up.
Also, break things down. don't practice the whole goddamn song. this is done with two to four measure increments. don't even fucking bother trying to play the whole song until you get close to the proper tempo. then break things down into larger portions- like a whole verse- to put it back together.
a final note: this is for your personal practice time which you should have every day for at least a half hour (a half hour is not much to ask- this process can take up the whole half hour). don't get together in groups practicing little snippets of songs together. that is fucking retarded. and please don't fucking go rehearsing with your band if you don't even practice in your personal time. that is beyond fucking retarded.
and yes, i am guilty of having done all the things i just told you not to do.
of course, i wish technique were something that could just be tossed aside because that would make shit a hell of a lot fucking easier. but shit is hard. fact.
but i do understand the point of the argument here: some people rely so heavily on technique that although their playing is brilliant it is also boring.
etudes. snore.
there are some common misconceptions about technique such as people think technique is all about playing fast while tone is reserved for slow music. this is not true- technique is just as important for slow music and tone is equally important for fast music.
you know the fastest way to judge a musician's performance ability and overall musicality? ask them to play slow. (no pun intended) if it's not just as clean slow then their technique is bad. if it isn't musical and interesting slow then their musicality is in question (of course the music could also be in question there- playing Sousa slow generally sucks no matter the musicality of the performer)
instructor's note to performers found to have bad technique: play it slow with a metronome and lots of concentration (so you don't repeat and thereby learn bad technique just from not paying attention to yourself- muscle memory is great but it can be a real bitch when you've really learned to do it wrong) ten times before you gradually raise the tempo. start out real fucking slow. like a dirge slow (that's 40-50 bpm). move up in 10 bpm increments. ten times perfect every time before you move up again. if you fuck up you go down 5 bpm. again ten times perfect before you move on. the next day you do it ten times at the slowest tempo and five times at each faster tempo until you reach the tempo where your technique becomes metrically uneven (even just ever so slightly). do it at that tempo twenty times in a row perfectly. don't go past your maximum clean tempo on any given day. on subsequent days you can do three times in the middle range of tempos and five times at the lowest tempo. when you get past 110 bpm start going up in 5 bpm increments (this is also a great way to really memorize different tempos). when you fuck up go down three do it right ten times then back up three. do that right twenty times then PUT IT DOWN. ALWAYS PLAY IT REALLY FUCKING sLOW FIRST WHEN PRACTICING. that's the key. i know this is really goddamn motherfucking boring, but i promise you will be amazed at how quickly you improve. after a week you can skip from 50 to 100 provided of course that you have been doing it consistently perfect in the middle range. always do the 50 (even if it's just a couple of times- i know i said do more, but i also know that after a few days you will get especially irritated and skip ahead anyways). don't skip ahead- that is how technique gets sloppy and uneven. if you have learned something wrong (and i do mean really fucking wrong) PUT IT DOWN for a month before you pick it back up.
Also, break things down. don't practice the whole goddamn song. this is done with two to four measure increments. don't even fucking bother trying to play the whole song until you get close to the proper tempo. then break things down into larger portions- like a whole verse- to put it back together.
a final note: this is for your personal practice time which you should have every day for at least a half hour (a half hour is not much to ask- this process can take up the whole half hour). don't get together in groups practicing little snippets of songs together. that is fucking retarded. and please don't fucking go rehearsing with your band if you don't even practice in your personal time. that is beyond fucking retarded.
and yes, i am guilty of having done all the things i just told you not to do.
I get your points, even tho it was off topic. Where can I find a metronome to download or use? Altough I currently focus on other hobbies than guitar.
vivebodom
New Metal Member
- Sep 20, 2011
- 149
- 0
- 0
This is the best metronome on the market. http://www.metronomes.net/db90.htm
It has various settings (beep, wood block, a voice i 'affectionately' call Helga for ppl who have issues listening to the metronome she is really hard to tune out, tuning notes, all the subdivisions a person could ever need)
Unless of course you prefer something more old fashioned. you can find that on that site too. they also have tuners. and metronome tuner combos.
It has various settings (beep, wood block, a voice i 'affectionately' call Helga for ppl who have issues listening to the metronome she is really hard to tune out, tuning notes, all the subdivisions a person could ever need)
Unless of course you prefer something more old fashioned. you can find that on that site too. they also have tuners. and metronome tuner combos.
predator2353
Member
- Mar 1, 2010
- 899
- 14
- 28
eveningninja
Skull Kid
Understandable, but you're inflating my argument and arguing against an extreme statement that I've never said anything about. Just because I've used the word "technique" to describe my feelings? Bodom is not anything like the "technical" bands you're talking about and you know that. I never said technique was the goal.
I could just as easily say that deliberately excluding technique is lulz and stupid, like tr00 black metal. Recording technique = shit. But maybe you like that... who knows, we all have our own criteria by which we judge what "good music" is.
Did I say the new vocals sound raw? Raw is different from powerful. I feel more power from his new vocals, but more rawness from old vocals. It's a different style, but to me the new style sounds much more refined and pleasing. This is obviously an endless debate because I feel that his old vocals are more akin to pathetic croaking.
However, my main point of saying his new vocals sounds like he's using more technique had nothing to do with this debate about technique as a goal anyway. I was mainly replying to j0000nas who is saying that Alexi's vocal cords sound tired and worn out or some shit. Based on my experience as a vocalist, his style now resembles more closely trained technique than his old style did. Like I (and someone else in this thread even did too), it's easier to replicate Alexi's old vocals than his new ones. I am not saying that makes it "better," but it does mean that Alexi isn't a lazy/tired vocalist. If you don't like the sound of it, who cares... but I believe he has put more effort into creating his new vocals.
vivebodom
New Metal Member
- Sep 20, 2011
- 149
- 0
- 0
you call them technical, you say they are real metal, then you say they are like cavemen? and math is somehow divergent from technique? do you really like these bands? do you think they would like you comparing them to cavemen lacking mathematical ability?
Atm my order of preference for the albums is:
Follow the Reaper
Hatebreeder
-------
Hatecrew Deathroll
Something Wild
-------
Are You Dead Yet?
Blooddrunk
-------
Relentless Reckless Forever
The thing with RRF is it's got like ten good ideas (like one per song, this is Bodom and the songs are supposed to be full of good ideas), but otherwise it's bullshit because of the American sound and thrash riffing. I get much better kicks from listening to In Flames. I still listen to RRF sometimes but just for the good parts, and skip the rest.
Follow the Reaper
Hatebreeder
-------
Hatecrew Deathroll
Something Wild
-------
Are You Dead Yet?
Blooddrunk
-------
Relentless Reckless Forever
The thing with RRF is it's got like ten good ideas (like one per song, this is Bodom and the songs are supposed to be full of good ideas), but otherwise it's bullshit because of the American sound and thrash riffing. I get much better kicks from listening to In Flames. I still listen to RRF sometimes but just for the good parts, and skip the rest.
Dude in another world we could have been best friends...
yeah I was listening to RRF this morning and I was only listening to the melodic parts that I liked! and that's was about it!
nettitaikatalvi
up goes the monkey...
Roundtrip To Hell And Back and Shovel Knockout are the best on this record. Ugly is not bad, too. But CoB are still CoB, like, when you hear their song, you can tell that it's theirs. It's not like Morbid Angel with Illud Divinum Insanious, right? Cuz those dudes have only 1 good song on the record- Nevermore. The other suxxxxxx (Radicult for example)
What's interesting is if today was day zero and COB had to pick a band name and style, I'm sure it would be something completely different than the original Children Of Bodom. What they had was something mythical, dark and very interesting with the Lake and the Reaper. Since Hatecrew Deathroll that theme has barely been tangling along with their new style and it seems they've incorporated Hate Crew as their new unofficial name. Of course the music and style should go hand in hand as they do with COB (album artworks represent the music very well) so if they necessarily had to change their music to the amtosphereless thrash style, they just couldn't have the lake and the mythology in there anymore. Maybe they don't even care. RRF is their first truly artistic coverart since FTR, but there's still something wrong, it's like the alder tree and the Reaper don't even belong in there anymore. The problem is the music: I'm sure it's easier to find or design a good mysterious cover art if it was desired. Why sacrifice such a great theme that was going on with the first albums? It's the music. They can't keep doing a theme of lakes and forests and northern lights if they want to make thrashy music about booze and idiotism. Of course music is the most important thing, but style and theme creates depth.
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