Heavy? Yes it is. Good? Maybe.

[SymphonyXFan]

I think we need to be a bit kinder to Requiem now,
we didn't come here to make enemies did we?

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Originally posted by SymphonyXFan
I think we need to be a bit kinder to Requiem now,
we didn't come here to make enemies did we?

Ha! he just gained an enemy here

 

[RequiemX]

Now, now.....

Can you really tell me, with a straight face, that death metal is more sophisticated than the awesomeness Symphony X outputs?

And nowhere did I use the word talent. I mean, my mailman is talented at delivering mail; our janitor at work does his job well; my dog is very talented at persuading me.

Symphony X is so very precious....do we really want to waste such goodness in a style that doesn't stand out in the same ways that Symphony X does?

You see, it's more than talent that makes a band: It's things like chemistry, friendship, and life. Why mess with that?

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Yeah... it's kindof.... sparse... isn't it. Not much happening, but still, its bettr than anything else out there... so... *shrug*

 

[Yngvai X]

I think this new song has really shown how SyX fans are in one of three camps

1. The ones listening because they like the progressive side

2. The ones listening because they like the metal side

3. The ones who like both, and doesnt matter how metal or how prog it is

I fall into the 3rd one, though I think these days Im much more of a powermetal fan than any other kind of metal. Plus, since a good 80% or so of all their songs sound basically like powermetal with odd time sigs I do tend to think of them as more of a power/symphonic metal band than a progressive band. I mean, you can't really say having big choirs or orchestral arrangements is a prog aspect only, if that were the case, then Rhapsody and Blind Guardian would be progressive metal. And its not really the odd time signatures cause then Meshuggah would be the KINGS of prog lol.

To me, when I think of progressive stuff, I think of longer multi-movement songs with themes that are elaborated on, an eclectic mix of styles (which is why I hate the term progressive metal...because thats doing something that goes against what I believe to be an aspect of being progressive in the first place; by calling it metal you're kind of eliminating the possibility of doing non heavy stuff), doing stuff that sounds like 70s prog bands, and of course, the trait Dream Theater seems to have taken a liking to on recent efforts, trying to sound as "technical" as possible with riffs that just seem to be a jumble of notes played in the oddest time signatures you can find.

To my ears, SyX only has the first and 3rd traits I listed above (if you haven't I STRONGLY suggest checking out Kansas. Symphony X sounds *A LOT* like them). SyX doesn't really stray from the "neoclassical" metal side of the musical spectrum (whereas in a band like Dream Theater on one album you can hear everything from jazz to blues to pop influences), and (thankfully) they don't really do the "look at me Im being TECHNICAL!! WOO!!" thing (coughdanceofeternitycough).

If I must use the term "prog metal" I think the best band right now that would fit that description (in my book at least) is Pain of Salvation. I think they use all the aspects of what makes one "progressive" in a really thoughtful and well constructed way.

Again all this is just my opinion. The bottom line is, after all, if it sounds good to you, then listen. If it doesnt, then dont. Though I do think its kind of silly for people to be judging the band's direction for this album on ONE song. I have heard a promo copy of the album and I can assure you, there are plenty of more symphonic moments on the CD. And if you're wondering where all the keyboards went...they're on Awakenings .

 

[crimsun]

Originally posted by Yngvai X
I think this new song has really shown how SyX fans are in one of three camps

1. The ones listening because they like the progressive side

2. The ones listening because they like the metal side

3. The ones who like both, and doesnt matter how metal or how prog it is

You know, the more I think about this, the more "sense" it makes. Sort of. I'm definitely under your third category--probably because I like "music" in general, and any style appeals. It's not really the artistry that counts; it's the yearning to be creative. Sure, there are some offensive lyrics that I might not see eye-to-eye with, but the style of creation in spirit is still the same.

For this reason I'll always like anything SX releases because their level of creative musicianship is phenomenal. It's very rare for an American band to create music of this ... integrity, passion, and excitement. I have the distinct feeling the guys in SX /enjoy/ doing it, and that's great.

I fall into the 3rd one, though I think these days Im much more of a powermetal fan than any other kind of metal. Plus, since a good 80% or so of all their songs sound basically like powermetal with odd time sigs I do tend to think of them as more of a power/symphonic metal band than a progressive band. I mean, you can't really say having big choirs or orchestral arrangements is a prog aspect only, if that were the case, then Rhapsody and Blind Guardian would be progressive metal. And its not really the odd time signatures cause then Meshuggah would be the KINGS of prog lol.

Sure, you're certainly entitled to think that. Genres and styles created and perpetuated by labels and fans, not to mention mass media, have all contributed to the confusion. I prefer to think of it all as "music." Now I enjoy all the bands you've mentioned, and certainly there is an aspect or two that Rhapsody brings to mind more so than Meshuggah. Does that make any one of them "better?" IMO, hardly. For instance, one of my favorite bands is Opeth, due to their incredible musicianship. They're also very cool guys. They have your typical death metal cookie monster growling, but they also have your acoustic, and perhaps more jazzy, sections with clean vocals in an amazing delivery. Even Cannibal Corpse, who I'm not a big fan of, can even be considered "good" musicians (although I hesitate to choose them readily over Opeth--in fact, I wouldn't). Or take a band like Cynic [or Portal]...technical metal, death vocals, jazzy improvisation (well, nothing like Jaco, but still darned good!) [or clean vocals and more ambience]...all of it blended superbly.

To me, when I think of progressive stuff, I think of longer multi-movement songs with themes that are elaborated on, an eclectic mix of styles (which is why I hate the term progressive metal...because thats doing something that goes against what I believe to be an aspect of being progressive in the first place; by calling it metal you're kind of eliminating the possibility of doing non heavy stuff), doing stuff that sounds like 70s prog bands, and of course, the trait Dream Theater seems to have taken a liking to on recent efforts, trying to sound as "technical" as possible with riffs that just seem to be a jumble of notes played in the oddest time signatures you can find.

IMO there's no real definition for "progressive" music...almost anything's progressive since it /all/ borrows at will. Referring to "progressive rock," however, the hallmarks are easily King Crimson, ELP, Saga, Gentle Giant, Genesis, Camel, Tull, Yes, etc., etc. Some of them were plenty "heavy." Certainly using the categorization "metal" tends to imply a certain amount of heaviness or distorted whatever, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.

To my ears, SyX only has the first and 3rd traits I listed above (if you haven't I STRONGLY suggest checking out Kansas. Symphony X sounds *A LOT* like them). SyX doesn't really stray from the "neoclassical" metal side of the musical spectrum (whereas in a band like Dream Theater on one album you can hear everything from jazz to blues to pop influences), and (thankfully) they don't really do the "look at me Im being TECHNICAL!! WOO!!" thing (coughdanceofeternitycough).

I rather enjoy the technical aspect as well. Sure, it's great to have incredible songsmithing--ala Sarah Slean, Tim & Jeff Buckley, Tori Amos, Radiohead, Coldplay, Tool, Cog--but mastery of one's instrument surely doesn't detract. I suppose it all comes down to preference...I just like hearing what and how people create the music they love.

If I must use the term "prog metal" I think the best band right now that would fit that description (in my book at least) is Pain of Salvation. I think they use all the aspects of what makes one "progressive" in a really thoughtful and well constructed way.

Or Vanden Plas or Katatonia. Or any of a few hundred other bands that are incredible.

Again all this is just my opinion. The bottom line is, after all, if it sounds good to you, then listen. If it doesnt, then dont. Though I do think its kind of silly for people to be judging the band's direction for this album on ONE song. I have heard a promo copy of the album and I can assure you, there are plenty of more symphonic moments on the CD. And if you're wondering where all the keyboards went...they're on Awakenings .

Funny that you say that...I just finished it.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Originally posted by RequiemX
Now, now.....

Can you really tell me, with a straight face, that death metal is more sophisticated than the awesomeness Symphony X outputs?

Yes! You may not like the style but there are bands that put music out that is just as good and in some cases better then anything Symphony X has done !

Maybe in the future some of you people could atleast wait until you listen to the WHOLE disc before you IMAGINE what direction a band is going in and throw out these "opinions". Who knows you may even like the changes but atleast give them a listen before you form some kind of opinion.

 

[Dado-x]

Another sleepless night...

 

[The King Of Terrors]

I'm not getting into the death metal discussion, but I do want to post what I think about the original subject of this thread; I think I must've listened to KoT at least fifty times now (it's on right now) and while I really like the song (must be one of the heaviest songs I've ever heard!), I do hope the rest of the album will be more complex overall because King Of Terrors is a bit simple for my tastes. Looking at SX's past 'heavy hitters', like The Eyes Of Medusa, for instance, they've generally had some interludes and/or bridges in the middle, or at least some extra parts that gave them something special and kept them from becoming a stanza/refrain kinda song. Personally I think King Of Terrors could have done with such an atmospheric interlude in the middle (they could've expanded a bit on the little piano-twiddle for example), or with some extra detail, like making the prechorus a little longer the second time around or something like that. Again, I do like the song (a lot!), but I hope the record itself will have more variation in the songwriting. From what I've read about it here on this forum however I'm confident that this will be the case

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Originally posted by RequiemX
Now, now.....

Can you really tell me, with a straight face, that death metal is more sophisticated than the awesomeness Symphony X outputs?

And nowhere did I use the word talent. I mean, my mailman is talented at delivering mail; our janitor at work does his job well; my dog is very talented at persuading me.

Symphony X is so very precious....do we really want to waste such goodness in a style that doesn't stand out in the same ways that Symphony X does?

You see, it's more than talent that makes a band: It's things like chemistry, friendship, and life. Why mess with that?

did i said that you used the word talent? no i was asking you a question, all you needed to do is answer it. I didn't say nowhere in my post that a band requiers talent to be good read it again judgin by your other post i thought that you were saying that death metal bands don't have talent get it?, again i'm gonna say it if you don't like a style it doesn't give you the right to state your opinions as facts. Have you ever heard death?Darkane(death/thrash metal with classical influences) i bet you haven't even heard lots of death metal so your judgment is plain biased, listen more death metal then come here and make a judgment.

Ps.keep whining all the time you want but you don't have an argument or whatsoever, all you state is opinions, if you want to start an argument here back yourself with facts and not useless comparisons.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

and i don't waste my time listening death metal, i listen to what i like, i love symphony x and i also listen and love the music of lots of other bands from different genres be a little more open minded and listen more music to make a judgment

 

[RequiemX]

Originally posted by Ultimate_Symphony
did i said that you used the word talent? no i was asking you a question, all you needed to do is answer it. I didn't say nowhere in my post that a band requiers talent to be good read it again judgin by your other post i thought that you were saying that death metal bands don't have talent get it?, again i'm gonna say it if you don't like a style it doesn't give you the right to state your opinions as facts. Have you ever heard death?Darkane(death/thrash metal with classical influences) i bet you haven't even heard lots of death metal so your judgment is plain biased, listen more death metal then come here and make a judgment.

Ps.keep whining all the time you want but you don't have an argument or whatsoever, all you state is opinions, if you want to start an argument here back yourself with facts and not useless comparisons.

I have one statement at this time:

Death Metal does not equate to Symphonic/Progressive Metal, ergo some aspects that make Symphony X good, would not translate well to the Death genre.

Whether or not I like Death Metal (It's okay) doesn't change the fact that Symphony X just isn't a Death Metal band. If you mold Symphony X, into something it's not---it's not.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Originally posted by RequiemX
I have one statement at this time:

Death Metal does not equate to Symphonic/Progressive Metal, ergo some aspects that make Symphony X good, would not translate well to the Death genre.

Whether or not I like Death Metal (It's okay) doesn't change the fact that Symphony X just isn't a Death Metal band. If you mold Symphony X, into something it's not---it's not.

i wonder who said that symphony x is a death metal band

Death Metal does not equate to Symphonic/Progressive Metal, ergo some aspects that make Symphony X good, would not translate well to the Death genre.

i wonder why you say this

your opinion, not a fact

 

[RequiemX]

It started out with that reply from TrevJ with a Symphony X death metal band proposal.

Then everything went to hell.

So I won't respond to anything here anymore unless it's related to my original post. This has gone off-topic for long enough.

If you want to start a thread dedicated to the whole death metal idea, go for it. I would post to that.

But my resonses to death metal in THIS thread are over.

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

cool

 

[RequiemX]

Now....

I just pre-ordered both versions from amazon.com. Based on what I saw on other threads, the sample track is not a great example of how the rest of the album goes, but only shows a portion of the band's new sound.

I'm very excited.

And I found two new bands yesterday that are kinda cool: After Forever (Floor Jansen!) and Nightwish. Check them out.

 

[SymphonyXFan]

Can I just say [even though I own a Cannibal Corpse album as well as a Six Feet Under album] that Symphony X would really go downhill and be crap if they turned into Death Metal. I want good singing for a start, as well as nicely thought out heavyness and melody, not just grinding noise.

[Awaits reply from Ultimate_Symphony ]

 

[SymphonyXFan]

And I only said that because I don't want Michael Romeo coming here and then saying to the band "Hey guys we have loadsa Death Metal fans here, let's be a Death Metal band!"

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Originally posted by SymphonyXFan
Can I just say [even though I own a Cannibal Corpse album as well as a Six Feet Under album] that Symphony X would really go downhill and be crap if they turned into Death Metal. I want good singing for a start, as well as nicely thought out heavyness and melody, not just grinding noise.

[Awaits reply from Ultimate_Symphony ]

you bet that i was going to respond oh and btw i wonder why you putted those rolleyes it's not like i'm being an asshole discussing my points over a subject and I still don't get it i'm probably the last one that would like to see symphony x turning into death metal (not that that's gonna happen ) and pleeease i can't even stand cannibal corpse to me that's just music for the sake of being brutal. Oh and another thing this whole death metal thing was a joke i don't get why people would take this so seriously, i can't beleive that someone would beleive that syx would turn into death metal, they are not even close.

Ps. cool off people it looks like i'm gaining some enemies here oh well i still got some friends around

 

[Ultimate_Symphony]

Originally posted by SymphonyXFan
And I only said that because I don't want Michael Romeo coming here and then saying to the band "Hey guys we have loadsa Death Metal fans here, let's be a Death Metal band!"

i would love to see the people's face around here

and just to let ya know (if you actually beleive that i'm a close minded retard fan of death metal ) here are some of the bands that i listen to (if you actually care hehe )

Symphony X
Dream Theater
Nile
Darkane
Soilwork
Cephalic Carnage
Candiria
Liquid Tension Experiment
Ayreon
Metalium
Cacophony
Death
holochaust
Nightwish
Terror 2000
Joe Satriani
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Metallica
Twilight Symphony
Atrocity
Jason Becker
some Opeth
and classical composers

so there ya go