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Siren said:
Well, from what i know, the country with capital Skopje currently goes under the name of FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). There was talk of turning that into something very close to what you mentioned, but i think there was no agreement reached.
The province in Greece is certainly not referred to as "the republic of macedonia" though. :p
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so there's a republic kind of macedonia and a macedonia province located pretty much at the same place, or can you (greeks - macedonians) just not agree on what it is?
 
Delirious said:
so there's a republic kind of macedonia and a macedonia province located pretty much at the same place, or can you (greeks - macedonians) just not agree on what it is?
Click to expand...
There's a big province in north Greece called Macedonia, it's been called so forever. It includes the place where Alexander the Great was born and reigned, and our second biggest city Thessaloniki.
In ancient times Macedonia was the kingdom of Alexander the Great and his father Philip II. So naturally the name of that area remained throughout greek history.

When FYROM (or as you call it "the republic kind of macedonia") was formed in recent years, they decided they wanted the name Macedonia for themselves (the kingdom of Alexander extended to their area. but then it also extended in the depths of Asia..). So they started calling themselves that and took a symbol of the kingdom for their flag. And we've been trying to find a diplomatic compromise since then.

As i see it, the real problem (apart from violation of the history) is that FYROM shares borders with Macedonia the province. If they have the same name, it would be "easy" then for the country to claim that the greek province should belong to it. And that would be a most convenient thing for them, since they now have no sea, and that would give them access to the Aegean sea. Thessaloniki with its port has always been a much wanted city by our neighbours for it's commercial and strategic position.

So you see, it's a much more complicated issue than it appears to be.
I'm sure many people (including them) think "big deal, it's just a name".
But of course the violator never thinks it's a big deal, the violated does.
 
Wow, thanks for the clarification! Well, of course, these kinds of "anschlusses by the way" are still quite common and its never a peaceful business. I guess Ill never understand that balkan area, especially the serbs (Im sorry if there are any here, but its my opinion). The Srebrenica issue is so horrid and they still cant admit it. But we had had also some cases like this in our history (especially the years 1939-1944 and 1948-1953), which some people are still unable to acknowledge.
 
:headbang: Oh well.

First of all The Republic of Macedonia has existed for more than 100 years now.
At first it has been under Turkish rule and then with the comming of the Balkan wars with the help of Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece it was liberated from the Turkish rule but only to be split between them. The place you refer as the greek province of macedonia was populated by many ethnic macedonians even then. After the ending of the II world war The Republic of Macedonia came into the union known as Yugoslavia.
The only difference then in our name was the Socialist before Republic of Macedonia. In the period around 1947-48 there was a civil war in Greece. The ethnic macedonias living there took part in the civil war fighting on the communist side hoping that when the war will be finished that they will have better rights ( But NEVER claim the Northern part of Greece as their OWN) Unfortunately the communist lost and most of the macedonias livin there were oppresed and at the end forced to leave. The ones that chose to stay were forced to claim that they are in fact greek.
With the breaking of Yugoslavia in 1991 a new indipendent Republic of macedonia was formed. And then the problems with Greece starded. The "diplomatic" means Greece used included a 5 year embargo (when we were banned from entering Greece, trade routes were stopped and so on)

The main misconception the greeks have (in my opinion) is that they truely believe that we are after their northern province. This is stupid becouse at this point The Republic of Macednonia is so fragile after the kind of civil war that occured here 4 years ago and the relations with the ethnic albanians living here are far from fixed.
We have trouble keeping our borders as they are, the idea of us invading another country which is a member of NATO and the Europian Union is just ridicilus.

Bottom line is that i DON'T care what Greece thinks about our name. More and more countries in the world recognise us by our constitutional name Republic of Macedonia including the United States of America (since 01.01.2005) wich is something that Greece cannot quite accept yet.

I grow tired of this, as i said such things are so boring to me that i had no itention of discussing them but somehow i felt inclined to make a reply which i believe will be my last on this topic.
 
@cuthalion: its the same here with hungarians and us. The nationalists here are afraid that hungary wants our southern part. The nationalists in hungary say they have every right for it. :D We were once a part of Austrian-Hungarian monarchy and these things (we call it hungarian card) are still vital, because the hungarian minority in slovakia is very large. And yeah - its ridiculous.
 
well i think that it is more or less the same everywhere or it has been at some point in history. But i think that we should be above all of that. It is just politics and i refuse to be part of the masses becouse they are always prone to believe the lies that the politicans feed them with. There are countless examples where nationalism led to war such was the case with the War in Yugoslavia. The curious thing is that most of the people who were sucked into those wars didn't even know who they were fighting against and why were they doing it.
 
still, 'unfortunately the communists lost' sounds weird. keep in mind that the other option would have been 'the soviet republic of macedonia'. :)
 
Brian: Are you the Judean People's Front?
Reg: Fuck off!
Brian: What?
Reg: Judean People's Front?! We're The People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front, God!
Rogers: Blighters...
Brian: Can I...join your group?
Reg: No, piss off!
Brian: I didn't want to sell this stufff, it's only a job! I hate the Romans as much as anybody!
All in PFJ except Brian: Ssch! Ssch! Ssch! Ssch! Ssch!
Brian: Oh.
Judith: Are you sure?
Brian: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.
Reg: Listen! If you wanted to join the PFJ, you'd have to have really hate the Romans.
Brian: I do!
Reg: Oh, yeah, how much?
Brian: A lot!
Reg: Right, you're in. Listen, the only people we hate more than the Romans, are the fucking Judean People's Front.
All in PFJ except Brian: Yeah!
Judith: Splitters!
Rogers: And the Judean Popular People's Front!
All in PFJ except Brian: Yeah! Splitters!
Loretta: And the People's Front of Judea!
All in PFJ except Brian: Yeah! Splitters!
Reg: What?
Loretta: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters!
Reg: We are the People's Front of Judea!
Loretta: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
Reg: People's Front! God...
Rogers: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
Reg: He's over there.
All in PFJ except Brian: Splitter!


:loco:
 
@cuthalion: i'm not much for political fights either, i just had to mention that.
as i've already said, you're much welcome on this board despite any political disagreements we might have. especially now that i know you like VNV Nation. :D

the main problem in my opinion is politicians and how they manage to influence the masses and perpetuate the hatred towards neighbouring countries, especially through education or lack thereof. (edit: this happens on every side)
i read a very interesting article about your history and geography schoolbooks and the vision of the "Greater Macedonia" they created, but it was a bit old ('94) and i'm now curious if they have changed at all since then and to what direction..

rahvin said:
strong nationalism and a liking for vnv nation are, however, two things the citizens of macedonia and those of greece seem to often agree on.
Click to expand...
:lol: :D


@marduk; Delirious: always at your service. ;) and yeah, the Balkans are a mess like that...



/Siren (let there be peace)
 
Hello to all, I'm new. My name is Alberto and I'm from Italy. It isn't too much time that I've start to listen to DT music, but when I discovered it, I immediately start to love it.

I've a question, who are the most importants band in the melodic death metal scene? I know DT, and In Flames, are there other bands?

Thank you to all. And excuse me for my english.
 
Bella Alberto!

Sono uno dei pochi italiani che frequentano questa sezione del forum di ultimate-metal.. allora, prima di tutto ti invito a visitare il mio sito sui DT, se nn lo conosci già.. url: www.darkillity.net

per rispondere alla tua domanda altre bands di questo genere sono

- arch enemy
- at the gates
- mors principium est
- soilwork
- enter my silence
- children of bodom

un saluto..

for the non-italian-speaking guys.. well u should understand more or less everything :D
 
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