Let's make me a good bassist... tips?

[ESA1996]

Yeah, perhaps I should have said that I want to try an aluminium guitar.

Sounds ridiculously thin to me too.

You might want to try learning some songs from tabs that have really difficult parts in them to give you an idea of what you're not that good at yet (I learned Gentaro Satomura's Neoclassical Sweep for this exact reason (The video I posted earlier)). For bass that might be early Metallica as Cliff Burton who is always praised for having interesting bass lines or perhaps Burning Leaves by Ensiferum as it actually has a short bass solo in it.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I should get that tux guitar working then, somehow...Kinda afraid if I get a taste of tabs I will keep taking that detour again. I wanna learn to actually play and be a real bassist. Maybe I'll look for tabs on youtube.

Should I learn other scales as well, with the chords belonging in them? Or just stick with natural minor for a good while not to get too overwhelmed.

I suppose one very important thing is to practice ear. And try to figure song parts by ear. Technique in itself is easier on bass.

Just thinking. Root notes of chords on natural minor, with bass the only sensible way is to play roots from the lowest two strings, (and arguably from the first 12 frets) if the intention is to provide low end, right? So the only root notes useful would be B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A... E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D... overall 14 notes on the bass. Why play a root note higher than that? Maybe on some occasions, but mostly the root note stuff on bass and metal music is concerned on that region on the fretboard, I'd imagine...

So should I maybe start ear practicing those 7 lowest notes from the lowest two strings? And elsewhere too of course...

 

[ESA1996]

The bass often imitates the guitar so if the guitar is playing something like this...

--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
5-7-7-7-5-7-7-7-
--------------------

...then the bass will very likely be playing something like this...

---------------------
---------------------
5-7-7-7-5-7-7-7-
---------------------

...instead of this:

--------------------
--------------------
5--------5---------
--0-0-0---0-0-0-


You are mostly correct though. Something like this...

---------------------
---------------------
-----4---5---4---2--------2---------
2-2---2---2---2---5-4-5---5-4-0-

...will most definitely be played like that instead of this:

------------------------------------------------------
-----11----12---11----9--------------9------------
9-9-----9-----9-----9----12-11-12----12-11-7-
------------------------------------------------------

Basically play everything from as low as possible as long as the pattern makes sense. When playing riffs you usually play the same stuff as the guitar so you don't really need to think about whether or not it makes sense (If the guitar plays it, it makes sense, at least in the mind of the composer), but when playing the root notes of chords you usually want to stay as close as possible to the "root chord" of the scale you are playing in.

Example:

-------------------
-------------------
7---5---3---5---
-------------------

...instead of...

-----------------
-----------------
---5---3---5---
0---------------

...and...

--------------------
---------------------
7---12---10---5----
---------------------

...instead of...

-------------------
-------------------
--------------5---
0---5---3---------

etc.


As for scales? B minor is a good one to practice. E minor is probably the second most used scale in B tuning. All in all though, when you know one minor, you can transpose it relatively well all over the fret board without too much trouble so, if learning a song by ear, though you do need to recognize which minor the song goes in, you don't necessarily need to know said minor by heart to be able to play as you can just transpose B minor, which you already know, up or down the required number of frets. It isn't as easy as playing in B minor of course, but once you get good at identifying the notes in a minor scale based on location in relation to the root note instead of just "The third fret of the B string belongs to B minor. The 4th does not. The 5th does etc." things get a lot easier as you just need to keep in mind where the root is to be able to play around it.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Yes, like if you try to get to play with others and you only learned one scale and corresponding chords, you're in trouble, have to start all over again building nervous system, visual memory and aural memory for new scale figure and chord shapes and positions... Am I mistaken that what makes it tricky to just transpose the scale in your mind is the thing about E to F and B to C, needing to know when a note is on which side?

Trying to find good ways to practice ear. Like the ability to tell which note is being played under the muddy mess. I know I can mistake a note by as much as about four half steps. Then again it's also about understanding which instrument to listen to.

About humming notes from music. Just how much of necessity is it. Isn't the idea of humming to make it more clear to yourself what pitch you are hearing in your head when you playback a section of a song in your mind. That the mind can delude you to jump many notes in inaccuracy.

I'm really eking out every bit of sense from my capacity trying to explain this.

 

[ESA1996]

Yes, like if you try to get to play with others and you only learned one scale and corresponding chords, you're in trouble, have to start all over again building nervous system, visual memory and aural memory for new scale figure and chord shapes and positions... Am I mistaken that what makes it tricky to just transpose the scale in your mind is the thing about E to F and B to C, needing to know when a note is on which side?

Trying to find good ways to practice ear. Like the ability to tell which note is being played under the muddy mess. I know I can mistake a note by as much as about four half steps. Then again it's also about understanding which instrument to listen to.

About humming notes from music. Just how much of necessity is it. Isn't the idea of humming to make it more clear to yourself what pitch you are hearing in your head when you playback a section of a song in your mind. That the mind can delude you to jump many notes in inaccuracy.

I'm really eking out every bit of sense from my capacity trying to explain this.

Not exactly sure I understood you first question correctly but the lack of notes between E and F, B and C makes writing music harder when switching keys, but it doesn't really affect guitar / bass (It affects the piano though). Transposing scales is easiest when you just find yourself the root note of the chord and use it as a reference note. You can then go ahead an just count "Okay, this is the 4th note up a minor scale from my reference note, the 4th chord of a minor is a minor chord, let's play a minor chord". Of course some scales are easier to just memorize, for example, when you know B minor you can learn E minor really easily as the only difference is that B minor has a C# in it and E minor has a C in it.

Mistaking notes is very easy. The distance isn't everything in this however. It's easier to mistake a E for a B than for an F though F is far closer. Why? B and E sound very good and pure together as they form a perfect 5th, the least dissonant interval not counting octaves. E and F on the other hand form a minor second which sounds pretty awful and is very dissonant.

Humming can work for exactly what you describe though I have rarely used it. I might actually have to try doing it a bit more. I've never though about using it for learning songs by ear. I've only used it a few times when I've had a melody in my head and I've then wanted to get it tabbed out on a guitar.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I'm afraid if I start humming my neighbours will think I'm doing a buddhist mantra or drooling on some toxic trance behind the wall. Not sure tho if one can search for the right notes from the mind easier from the fretboard or by humming...?

Yeah, sometimes I can't figure if the right note is this or that even tho they're far apart, but one note closer might sound very wrong despite being closer, so I guess it's about the dissonance and not fitting together with the scale.

 

[ESA1996]

I'm afraid if I start humming my neighbours will think I'm doing a buddhist mantra or drooling on some toxic trance behind the wall. Not sure tho if one can search for the right notes from the mind easier from the fretboard or by humming...?

Yeah, sometimes I can't figure if the right note is this or that even tho they're far apart, but one note closer might sound very wrong despite being closer, so I guess it's about the dissonance and not fitting together with the scale.

I'd say it's easier to first hum a melody and then match what you're playing to that than straight up trying to play what you hear in your head. Might be just me though.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

One thing I notice is...

Most of bassists who try some improvising solo shit sound absolutely uninspired, melodiless and bland, just slapping and popping all kinds of stupid noises, just chaos.

Then I find some individuals presenting an atmospheric solo, with emotion. Usually downright depressing emotion, but sometimes happy or even mysterious.

I'm thinking what the fuck to practice, maybe one thing could be just trying to come up with atmospheric stuff from the scale I'm using, possibly even doing things inside chords. As you might probably know I'm more of a atmosphere guy instead of technique guy when it comes to music. So at this point I approach the idea of personal style as emotional, not technical.

Maybe one finds his personal emotion? Or can one do different emotions?

Usually shit I've come up with is mysterious, beautiful but depressive as fuck, like it makes even myself feel horrible, but I still haven't figured my true voice when it comes to that.

 

[ESA1996]

One thing I notice is...

Most of bassists who try some improvising solo shit sound absolutely uninspired, melodiless and bland, just slapping and popping all kinds of stupid noises, just chaos.

Then I find some individuals presenting an atmospheric solo, with emotion. Usually downright depressing emotion, but sometimes happy or even mysterious.

I'm thinking what the fuck to practice, maybe one thing could be just trying to come up with atmospheric stuff from the scale I'm using, possibly even doing things inside chords. As you might probably know I'm more of a atmosphere guy instead of technique guy when it comes to music. So at this point I approach the idea of personal style as emotional, not technical.

Maybe one finds his personal emotion? Or can one do different emotions?

Usually shit I've come up with is mysterious, beautiful but depressive as fuck, like it makes even myself feel horrible, but I still haven't figured my true voice when it comes to that.

Yeah, I know you like atmosphere. Don't see how one could read this forum for over five years without learning that

Evil/Dark/Spooky/Mysterious and Happy/Cheery are emotions that one can do relatively easily by picking the right scale. Diminished, Harmonic Minor (And all it's modes. Especially Phygriant Dominant 5th (Natural minor with b2 and #3)), and Locrian generally work great for the former group. Major scales work for the latter. Emotions like sad, lonely and heroic are IMO far harder to pull off as they don't have a scale "dedicated" to them (My own term). What I mean by that is that a melody played in a Major scale will sound happy 90% of the time whereas a melody played in Phygrian Dominant 5th will sound some variation of evil 90% of the time. Thus I would describe them as scales "dedicated" to a certain emotion. Natural minor is supposed to sound sad but to me it sounds mostly neutral. It is IMO the most versatile scale in terms of emotions though. It is harder to make atmospheric stuff with it but it can IMO do more different emotions than a Major scale or any of the "evil" scales (Such as the aforementioned sad, lonely and heroic).

Everyone has their own style when composing true. When I compose without aiming for any certain emotion I tend to end up with heroic, sad or lonely "Flying Over the Mountains" melodies as my friends call them. Occasionally I come up with some folk melodies, thrash riffs or other stuff that I'd categorize as a mix of doom metal and black metal (Really dark but pretty slow).

 

[(__Joonas__)]

You can hear bass (and sometimes keyboards and group shouts) so clear on this recording.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I guess heroic is kinda like a combination of feelings, and lonely is just a gloomy version of sad.

Heroic for example the verse in Follow the Reaper. It's ecstatic yet unaware of what lies ahead. It's of course about the thrill of the ecstasy of alcohol, quick escape from troubles into higher feelings, a dangerous solution. It's like flying, but flying deep down.

Or like the first interlude of SNBN, it's also got the happy element, but this time with a sense of peril.

What is heroism? It's about blind faith in your survival ability when facing danger, so it's two emotions combined. A dark scale played in a happy way (not always descending)...? Whereas a happy scale played in a dark way could create something like the keyboard melody in Ugly...? This gets philosophical but it's very interesting to try to figure the math behind human emotions. I think it goes beyond math tho.

 

[mocobhc]

Don't remember in which area you live, but just in case: http://www.kerubi.fi/ohjelma.php?tapahtuma=1776
Monday in a week.

ESA1996, do you play in a band or have a yt channel?

 

[ESA1996]

Don't remember in which area you live, but just in case: http://www.kerubi.fi/ohjelma.php?tapahtuma=1776
Monday in a week.

ESA1996, do you play in a band or have a yt channel?

I play in a band though said band consists of only two guitarists at the moment (The other guy does growls and, should we use them in our songs, we both will do cleans). We don't have any recorded stuff yet.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

So, a dilemma...

Recently I kicked my fucking RCA cord and it snapped, leaving a plug inside my stereo set receiver amp. Tried every trick under the sun but can't get that bitch pulled out of the socket. Even opened up the whole fucking machine only to discover the plug is in a dead end! The electric circuit board is solded into the socket bitch, no no way to push the plug out of the hole... The common solution to this is to heat up a needle fiery red and stick it inside the plug's plastic core, but this one is metal inside! So I'm fucked. All I can do is take the whole receiver to a pro to fix it.

And a question...

I'm thinking of buying a bass amp. Any recommendations?
How powerful is good for home use with average sound isolation and average tolerance from neighbors? So that it sounds full even when played silent.
Are bass amps good to play metal albums, if my master amp is fucked...? Cos I need to play bass over the music. Or will the music sound wrong coming from a bass amp.
CAN I plug the bass AND computer AND headphones into bass amp, so that the amp plays the song and my bass in my room. What holes are needed?? I could NOT play music from my computer thru my guitar amp (only could if using headphones.)

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I discovered a great thing to practice... Backing tracks on youtube, for bass B minor, different sorts of metal, with or without guitars.

 

[ESA1996]

So, a dilemma...

Recently I kicked my fucking RCA cord and it snapped, leaving a plug inside my stereo set receiver amp. Tried every trick under the sun but can't get that bitch pulled out of the socket. Even opened up the whole fucking machine only to discover the plug is in a dead end! The electric circuit board is solded into the socket bitch, no no way to push the plug out of the hole... The common solution to this is to heat up a needle fiery red and stick it inside the plug's plastic core, but this one is metal inside! So I'm fucked. All I can do is take the whole receiver to a pro to fix it.

And a question...

I'm thinking of buying a bass amp. Any recommendations?
How powerful is good for home use with average sound isolation and average tolerance from neighbors? So that it sounds full even when played silent.
Are bass amps good to play metal albums, if my master amp is fucked...? Cos I need to play bass over the music. Or will the music sound wrong coming from a bass amp.
CAN I plug the bass AND computer AND headphones into bass amp, so that the amp plays the song and my bass in my room. What holes are needed?? I could NOT play music from my computer thru my guitar amp (only could if using headphones.)

A picture might help with your dilemma. I once had a somewhat similar situation when a bolt in my car snapped inside it's hole when changing break pads. Took it to some engineer guy who tried all kinds of stuff without success. He eventually screwed a drill bit (The thing you drill holes in wood with) into the bolt and pulled it out with that.

Don't know about bass amps really, but I can help in terms of power. I used to have a two watt amp (Yes, two ) and it sounded pretty decent. Good for cleans, okay for distortion (Didn't have quite as much distortion as I'd have wanted). Now I have a 40 watt amp and I'm pretty happy with it. I get more distortion from it than I need and the cleans are good too. Anyway, there's need for more power than that unless you're playing on an arena (Putting the volume even 1/4th up is way too loud for indoors).

Can't you plug your computer to some normal speakers and then play on top of that? The bass goes into the normal instrument plug, the computer goes into "Aux In" and the headphones go into something like "Phones" or "Recording Out". Aux In is usually a 3,5 mm jack (What you have in your phone for example), but the Recording Out, at least on my amp, is a 1/4 inch plug (Same size as the plug your bass goes into) so make sure you have 3,5 mm to 1/4 inch adapter (You can get them from music stores or electronic stores like Gigantti etc.).

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I'm back to jamming over albums after a two month frustrating break because of the tenosynovitis. Praying to Jesus it stays good. I had over stressed it in my work + gym + bass + playstation + jerking off, whaddya expect. Yesterday did 69 Eyes - Blessed Be, today did 69 Eyes - Devils, both very nice beginner bassist practice albums. I still have piles of playable CD's in my closet I intend to play. It's cool especially with albums you know by ear, it lets you dive in not only searching pitch and stand-up playing, but also visualizing what the bassist is doing when playing each part, like where on the fretboard he's playing the notes, and so on; sometimes I get something so right it feels amazing. Just can't connect my computer to a sound outlet cos the damned plug be stuck in there.

 

[MaximHateCrew]

Learning Bodom tabs again and again. Things will come by time. I learned playing guitar more or less like that. Not perfect in term of music theory etc but still it is really helpful.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I bought this bad boy. 135 e, 20 watts, with straight connecting to computer. I first considered a pocket size 3 watt amp, but the prize difference was so small. This one can also be lain diagonally on its side on the floor. I can connect my keyboard also on this, so don't have to drag my boomblaster to the living room or use headphones if I want to try something with piano.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Just played Cradle of Filth's Midian album, which was one of the best so far. It's satisfying when finding the right notes, especially the moments when you know beforehand what is coming and are ready to play it in advance on the right spot on the fretboard. Maybe I played some guitar sections too, I don't know, when trying to follow the melody in sections that don't demand the constant low notes, but it's not technically wrong I guess.

By the last song I remembered Cradle play apparently only in B harmonic scale, I figured when I was searching for right notes and it was in the G major chord tones plus a couple tones extended to it.