Metal and Ideology

[speed]

Should metal serve some sort of ideological purpose? I think we all know that Planetary Eulogy( ie Dying Sun), thinks everything in the world, be it music, art, politics etc. must further an idea for it to be truly art. I think otherwise; sure music and art can, and is used to further ideas, but its not always necessary. If it was, then think how much great art and music etc. would be thrown out as unimportant- from Van Goghs Still Lifes, to just about every single talented metal band.

In essence I am posting this, to hear what Planetary Eulogy has to say. Frankly I am growing tired of reading his unceasing elitist criticism of so many talented bands, becuase they either betray his cherished world view and ideology, or they do nothing to further his ideas. So, please Planetary, lets get it all out into the open, I want to know what the hell you are- and why.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Just go to anus.com

 

[Stormwatch]

Music is for entertainment - if I want ideology, I'll start reading books about religion.
Music should be fun not a fucking soapbox for arseholes.

 

[Gory Elephant]

Just go to anus.com

Is that who that is??? The reviews on anus.com are HILARIOUS, though I am sure that is not intentional. And utterly useless, I might add.

 

[AjDeath]

Music is for entertainment - if I want ideology, I'll start reading books about religion.
Music should be fun not a fucking soapbox for arseholes.

Music is art friend, that is the way it was created, that is the way it is now, art can be entertaining though, and art and entertainment are not limited to your rather limited view of these mediums. Don't argue, because art/entertainment are not limited to my rather limited view of them either.

I just listen to the bands that I enjoy, the factors of what the believe in and try to convey to the listener are in part what I base my musical preferences on, I suspect you do the same.

 

[ffanatic]

Anus.com is little more than a sad joke.

As for Planetary Eulogy, there have been several like him, and there (unfortunately) will be several more. He's just another elitist with something to prove.

 

[NAD]

There is nothing wrong with playing music just for music's sake. All art is entertainment of some sort, and there is nothing wrong with simple entertainment. At the same time, there is nothing wrong with music, literature, etc. that serves an artistic purpose or as a form of entertainment that requires more than just base enjoyment. For example, Jackson Pollack and the Misfits can be just as enjoyable for me as Michelangelo and King Crimson.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

The central purpose of art is the symbolic communication ("expression") of ideas, values, beliefs, possibilities etc. Entertainment is secondary to this function. Art can and does entertain, but only as a byproduct of expression. 'Music for music's sake' is not inherently anti-artistic, the ideal being expressed is that of pure music. Such music is inherently obscurist in nature, but it does exist (one finds the concept cropping up frequently among the earlier Classical composers, it was part of their ongoing obsession with form, balance and the rational principle). The real issue is not 'music for music's sake,' but rather 'music for entertainment's sake.' Music that, like most popular forms today, exists soley as product and entertainment, with no underlying expressive purposes, is not in any real sense art. It is the musical equivalent of a thrill ride or pornography; it exists solely to excite the senses and loosen the wallet.

 

[Stormwatch]

The central purpose of art is the symbolic communication ("expression") of ideas, values, beliefs, possibilities etc. Entertainment is secondary to this function. Art can and does entertain, but only as a byproduct of expression. 'Music for music's sake' is not inherently anti-artistic, the ideal being expressed is that of pure music. Such music is inherently obscurist in nature, but it does exist (one finds the concept cropping up frequently among the earlier Classical composers, it was part of their ongoing obsession with form, balance and the rational principle). The real issue is not 'music for music's sake,' but rather 'music for entertainment's sake.' Music that, like most popular forms today, exists soley as product and entertainment, with no underlying expressive purposes, is not in any real sense art. It is the musical equivalent of a thrill ride or pornography; it exists solely to excite the senses and loosen the wallet.

I didn't read that, but I can guarantee it's as boring as fuck.

 

[97reb]

Okay, without having been to anus.com, I agree with what Planetary Eulogy has to say here (so far).
IMO - some music is just for the feel of it, you can't understand the lyrics because they are unintelligible, but you like it. Hell, I'm listening to Until Death Overtakes Me right now. I can't understand the vocalist, but it does not matter, I'm in the Doom/Death mood right now. I want to scream rrraaaaarrrgghhhhhhhhh about the world and my job. This music is making me feel better. Who really gives a fuck if they never go platinum in the U.S. All I know is what they have done (and other similar bands) has a special place for me. The true music fan will listen to many options and explore and debate and explore some more. Those that are there for the quick fix are usually there for the social aspects of music. If there were a band out there that had only one fan and I were that fan, I would not be sad about that because the masses ( the people, the majority, the common populace are a bunch of dumb-asses). It's a small world and I want Metal for all the world, but... there are all those dumb-asses out there.

 

[Stormwatch]

Music is art friend, that is the way it was created, that is the way it is now, art can be entertaining though, and art and entertainment are not limited to your rather limited view of these mediums



Don't argue,



.

Right then.

 

[Stormwatch]

Let's see how many lines of boring, self indulgent, opinionated shite we can get in this thread!
We've already got quite a few so far!

 

[NAD]

Is not artistic expression a form of entertainment itself? Not necessarily a for-profit industry so to speak, but I would argue that is still lies within the realm of entertaiment, regardless of any artistic qualities.

 

[Lyle]

Metal is about big learned words. S.R. Prozak said so, and he went to coledge, am i rite?

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Is not artistic expression a form of entertainment itself? Not necessarily a for-profit industry so to speak, but I would argue that is still lies within the realm of entertaiment, regardless of any artistic qualities.

It can be a form of entertainment, but I don't think entertainment is inherently present. There a fair number of artistic forms that are not conventionally "entertaining."

 

[NocturnalSun]

dude, everyone's idea of what 'entertainment' is is different. That's kidna why most non-musicians (ie pplz that play nothing) see music as entertainment rather than really connecting with it and finding special meaning in it for themselves. Musicians can tell if other musicians really put their all in it or jsut made a halfass piece o shit. If they made it solely for fun, the songs would be boring and very easy to play. we have a genre of music for that called Punk Rock...

I wholeheartedly believe in ideology in metal because as a musician myself (guitar, bass guitar, keyboard) I can tell if a band truly puts their mind, soul, and life into their songs. I also had some kind of topic on here in this forum awhile back called "Metal songs and their atmospheres", but that went to hell when nobody every replied haha

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

I wholeheartedly believe in ideology in metal because as a musician myself (guitar, bass guitar, keyboard) I can tell if a band truly puts their mind, soul, and life into their songs. I also had some kind of topic on here in this forum awhile back called "Metal songs and their atmospheres", but that went to hell when nobody every replied haha

Which of course explains why a giant fucking picture of Dimmu Borgir is displayed in your signature?

 

[NocturnalSun]

your musical interests are of course different than mine, and you seem way to eager to prove something rather than add in constructive criticism. A smart person wouldn't have even replied to me saying what you said right there because you're allowing your own musical interests to cloud your vision. Dimmu Borgir are excellent musicians and I have much respect for them. You may not like them that much, but their songs are very complex and intricate, also very stirring. Dimmu Borgir does put their all into it. just listen to Vortex's voice on a few songs. there's no doubt in my mind that the band really gives their all. Especially live. you ever notice how some bands tend to focus more on stage appearance (jumping/swinging guitars) rather than actually playing the songs, so they screw up alot? those are the bands that don't care. Dimmu are very focused live. Just because you have no respect for Dimmu Borgir doesn't mean that picture contradicts my ideas.

 

[Planetary Eulogy]

Warning: missed humor alert!

 

[NocturnalSun]

ur humor is a lil wacked out if pointing out something to try and contradict what someone says gets you off.