Metal >/< Classical? Metal Vs. Classical?

[MightyA]

All classical composers were whores.

King Augustus says: "Hey Beethoven! Make me a FINE SONG! I'll pay you good!"
Beethoven says: "Ok!"

What a whore!

 

[lord667]

My music professor gave my class an assignment. It was to write a 3-5 min. chamber piece with an unusual element to it. I added minimal guitar, bass, and drum parts to a standard 5-piece chamber group and wrote some Opeth/In Flames-sounding passages. I also wrote the piece in E minor, in an attempt to get a metallic &#8220;feel.&#8221;



My prof. rejected the piece, saying that he noticed the metal elements and that it was childish. Metal is too unsophisticated, &#8220;in your face,&#8221; and is in essence folk music, or kids&#8217; music. He said that my piece reeked of bad songwriting (I showed it to at least 10 fellow students and the assistant teacher and all said it looked awesome&#8212;I know the writing is good). He challenged me to find one metal song, just ONE, that has any of the maturity, tone, development, or &#8220;musicality&#8221; of any of Beethoven&#8217;s works.



If I can find such a song by Monday, he will reconsider my failing grade. I&#8217;m looking for one that has all those elements he mentioned and more, and doesn&#8217;t have any orchestral backing, so he can&#8217;t claim that stealing classical techniques was what made it good.



Anyone know anything that I can actually use?

If you have the time to hunt, I'd suggest something by Dream Theater. John Petrucci is a major-league theoryhead. Prog metal is obviously your best bet, being complex and theoretical without being unlistenable to beginners. If only they weren't all so fucking - well, noisy, a bit of quality noisecore would probably be a winner.

And a Beethoven lover is in no goddamn position to talk about unsophisticated music. This is the composer of "Fur Elise" and "Ode To Joy" we're talking about, right?

 

[MountainDweller]

All classical composers were whores.

King Augustus says: "Hey Beethoven! Make me a FINE SONG! I'll pay you good!"
Beethoven says: "Ok!"

What a whore!

Beethoven hated the idea of having a patron and caused many headaches, apparently. He wanted to do his own thing, and he did.

 

[MountainDweller]

And a Beethoven lover is in no goddamn position to talk about unsophisticated music. This is the composer of "Fur Elise" and "Ode To Joy" we're talking about, right?

And also the composer of the 5th Symphony and Moonlight Sonata...

 

[InFlames235]

I believe a good idea would be to show him silhouette and then show him a heavy song by Opeth (maybe Blackwater Park or something) and be like "THATS THE SAME BAND THAT MADE THAT AWESOME PIANO SONG YOU FUCKING BITCH FUCK FUCK YOU BITCH YOU JUST GOT SERVED!!!!!"...yea except for that quote I believe everything would go well :Spin:

 

[x_OPETH_x]

how bout "Windir - Martyrium"
that song, to me (who knows zero music theory), sounds VERY intricate and structured much like a classical song


otherwise, something off Emperor's "Prometheus" album like "Empty" or "The Tongue of Fire"

also-

Extol - Emancipation (polyrhythms, odd time signatures, overall complicated song structure)
Vintersorg - Vem Styr Symmetrin
Dream Theater - Streams of Consciousness


my top pick would be Opeth's Dirge for November, according to what you said in your second post

 

[the_drip]

All classical composers were whores.

King Augustus says: "Hey Beethoven! Make me a FINE SONG! I'll pay you good!"
Beethoven says: "Ok!"

What a whore!

you are a fuckin moron. beethoven stuck it to the man and wrote whatever he wanted. He was basically the first freelance composer who actually had some success.


all you dipshits that talk shit about classical, are just as ignorant as the asshole professor that slanders metal.

those of you who don't think classical music is capable of being very emotional, have not listened to enough of it.

 

[AmirH]

I believe a good idea would be to show him silhouette and then show him a heavy song by Opeth (maybe Blackwater Park or something) and be like "THATS THE SAME BAND THAT MADE THAT AWESOME PIANO SONG YOU FUCKING BITCH FUCK FUCK YOU BITCH YOU JUST GOT SERVED!!!!!"...yea except for that quote I believe everything would go well

I forgot all about sillhouette, that's a pretty good idea. But on the other hand it doesn't show that the metal side is as mature so he might dismiss it.

 

[The Scourge]

Wow man. I can't believe that noone here so much as even mentioned Septic Flesh, or their classical counterpart, Chaostar. Dude, their guitarist if I remember correctly graduated from fucking OXFORD!!!! with a degree in composition, so believe me, you shouldn't have to look no further than that. Oh, and for shits and giggles, I would suggest Ferrucio Busoni to your ears. He was an early 20th century German composer, that invented a whole new style of composition called Young Classicism, which borrows the more tender moments of serial music(i.e. the majority of Alban Berg) with the structured chaos of late 19th century romanticism. His seven elegies for orchestra are absolutely brilliant.

 

[Protected Witness]

Emperor - Tongue of Fire

If that doesn't work, Bloodbath - Cry my Name.

 

[Risquit]

Or you could really piss him off and play Orgasmatron, by Sepultura or some old Venom.

 

[Nico]

Unfortunatly my suggestion wont be any more noticable than anyone elses, but seriously, if you can find it, 'The Throne to Perish' by Astriaal is just magnificent. Considering its rarity, even on the internet, you might also try 'Glories of the Nightsky' also by Astriaal.

 

[drumfoetus]

try moonlapse vertigo-its a good one to get metal sceptics going-works almost every time. try anything without too much screaming, except a fair judgement, coz the piano part is a bit shit

 

[ChrisEmerson]

face of melinda? its not got any death screams that would put him off, but still has the heaviness at the end.

 

[Ben_Bids_You_Farewell]

Yeh,well the obvious choice would be metal that uses classical arrangments, such as COF,Dimmu or Emperor, although he probably wouldn't be able to sit through it long enough to give it a fair go.
Another suggestion would be to make him listen to a Meshuggah or a Tool song,for example 'straws pulled at random' or 'third eye' or somthing like that. I know it's not classically influenced but it might make him think before saying 'heavy metal' is morons music' :Smug:
Speaking about Meshuggah, you could play him the whole of Fredrik Thordendal's special defects cd and make him fall over in confusion
As far as Opeth, well probably Face of Melinda or Benighted might do the trick.
If none of that works I suggest to tie him down and make him listin to some Nile and Cryptopsy then beat him with his own violin.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I've been studying Beethoven's 9th.

Even HE broke some rules with that one. A somber, somewhat moody, first half and explosive choral outro based around one main melody? That was his fourth movement.

His first two movements are nothing but orchestral verse/chorus using the masculine and feminine melodies in the sonata form. His third desn't even follow sonata form, if I'm correct.

He played what worked, not necessarily what should theoretically work.

Now to compare to Dream Theater.

I'm not an idiot. I know that Beethoven was amazing. I know that he standardized the symphony orchestra and wrote beautiful pieces of art that were emotive, evocative, and still challenging to listen to and perform. I just want to find someone in today's metal scene that even tries to do some of that. If I can do that, I know I can get my teacher to shut up.

 

[etotheipiequalsminus1]

Maybe get him to sit through all of light of day day of darkness (60mins)...
Something by emperor... maybe show him opus a satana then the metallic version inno a satana.

i don't think dream theater is a good idea, he'd probably dismiss it as being cheesy.

hmm... in the shadow of our pale companion would be good... but then he hates folk music and that really is a folk song.

Tool would be good to dispell his preconceptions though.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Tool are actually quite rambly and incoherent musically. They're basically Korn-meets-artrock with a weird time change or two. That's hardly what I want to use to represent metal.

 

[TwilightSymphony]

you are a fuckin moron. beethoven stuck it to the man and wrote whatever he wanted. He was basically the first freelance composer who actually had some success.


all you dipshits that talk shit about classical, are just as ignorant as the asshole professor that slanders metal.

those of you who don't think classical music is capable of being very emotional, have not listened to enough of it.

Actually, Might A's more correct than you realize. The Classical composers of yesteryear were the "Pop songwriters" of their time (the equivalent of today's Pop songwriters i.e. Maurice Starr, Max Martin, Eric Foster White, etc.), writing music that would have to pass muster with the ruling King, Emperor or the Church officials who were often the ones to commission the work in the first place. The aritsts did write their own pieces for their own enjoyment, but they usually found more commercial success when paid by the nation's hierarchy.

And, remember, just because it's not Classical or Metal doesn't mean that it's not a valid form of music.

Tool are actually quite rambly and incoherent musically. They're basically Korn-meets-artrock with a weird time change or two. That's hardly what I want to use to represent metal.

Quite a unique trick considering Tool was already signed and released their first EP at least 3 years before Korn even got out of the box. I wouldn't call them rambly or incoherent. Their songs are quite well structured, unlike Korn, who essentially utilize their instruments to create weird noises and some chord progressions to base their tunes on. Tool is also one of the few bands to actually use odd time signatures on a regular basis without making the material sound choppy.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Oh, course.

Even rap is a valid form of music. Regardless of who says what, or how difficult it might be to believe.

*scratches head as he watches Nelly video*