Metal vs Classical Music

[Dammnare]

First of all I love metal music. Any type but generally not black metal or porngrind etc. But I sometimes feel like classical music owns it. This makes me question why I listen to it. This lasts short though

For example Leyanda ( Asturias ) . That is a great composition. Then you open up a death metal song and you think "is this really music?". And also some great composers like Beethoven, Bach etc........ This makes me think that " what is it that makes metal music so fun to listen and so great and enjoyable." I got some friends who play piano etc and when I talk about metal music they got the impression on their face like "hmmm..ok..". Now I don't have to give a shit about their opinion of course I am who I am and I listen what I like that is not my problem. The problem is that this makes me question what makes metal music what it is, what makes it worth to listen and fun to listen. And also what makes classical music what it is and what makes it good to listen. What do you guys think? What is the main pros and cons of both music? This has been troubling me for some time really and I just want to talk about it. If you find the thread a shit thread then don't answer please, I am sick of people who come to treat you like a idiot just for opening a thread.

 

[Koi]

if someone knew what in music creates those "chills" he would be a millionaire.

 

[Crepuscularia]

Well, I think one reason that classical is so highly regarded is that the best classical composers were/are unparalleled in their ability to develop musical ideas, sometimes very simple ones, into massive interwoven structures throughout a composition. Imagine that a simple musical phrase is like a character in a movie or play. In the best classical music, over the course of a composition you would hear this character treated in different ways, e.g. presented in different keys, inverted or otherwise modified in novel ways, played simultaneously with other musical ideas, etc. This is called development and with good reason; it's somewhat analagous to the way characters in movies/novels are developed over the course of the film, and interact with each other, etc.

Now using this analogy for metal, you have SOME characteristics of these things, but generally in a very simplified form if at all. Usually you just have different sections that may or may not repeat. Take your typical Opeth song for example. There are many different musical ideas (characters) but generally we only hear them once before a new one is introduced, and if we ever hear it again it is usually in an unmodified form. So there is little to no 'character development' so to speak. In the movie analogy, Opeth would consist of a series of short scenes having nothing to do with one another, except set up in such a way that they transition nicely to the next 'scene'.

Of course, you still can't really argue which is better than the other. It just comes down to different types of ways to tell a 'story'.

Also, as a side note: if you like Leyenda, and I assume you mean the guitar version, I suggest checking out 'Invocacion y Danza' by Joaquin Rodrigo. I think you would like it!

 

[Dammnare]

I very much liked your Opeth definition in terms of movie analogy.

So you are saying that classical music is so highly regarded because the composers are extremely talented ? Some bands have very talented musicians as well but not much people like them. Does this mean that some people do not find them talented or we find them over-talent or they are not taken seriously because of the heavy metal music image in people's head ?

 

[kalikatzaros]

A big part of music is tension and resolution i think. In metal that is really intensified through the sound that metal has (that is distorted guitars, brutal vocals, and drums) which makes it what it is....... I believe.

 

[Fields Of Sorrow]

It's not just to do with talent. He's talking about all the rules and conventions classical composers obey to shape their music. To know exactly how far to bend and break these rules whilst remaining true to the formula AND creating a listenable piece of music is a hell of a feat. I mean pretty much any of us could, in a night, come up with a stereotypical, vaguely listenable metal song but how many of us could write even a generic piece of renaissance counterpoint? I'm guessing not many.

 

[HemeHaci]

Sorry for sounding like an asshole but Asturias is quite a weak composition in classic music, I guess you are not into Classic music much

 

[Dammnare]

Sorry for sounding like an asshole but Asturias is quite a weak composition in classic music, I guess you are not into Classic music much

Is classic music's complexity what makes it worthy for you? Isn't this the same case for metal? People find COB songs kiddish, but actually some are really good songs. Watershed is a lot more complex structured than any Opeth album so far, yet I like other albums more does this mean I am not into Opeth ?

 

[Fields Of Sorrow]

Sorry for sounding like an asshole but Asturias is quite a weak composition in classic music, I guess you are not into Classic music much

How exactly is Asturias a weak composition in "classic"(sic) music?

 

[Words of Credence]

Classical music is great, but you would lie if you said you liked ALL of it. No-one likes EVERYTHING that is offered in a specific genre.

Sure, classical composers are highly praised, and deserve it, but you also have to consider the time at which they existed, their surroundings etc etc. There weren't many people making music in such a fashion then. Nowadays you have countless of people who are terrific at writing classical music (even those that compose music for games, movies etc) but it doesn't have the same impact since there are A LOT of musicians in the world; many people can make music, it's not just reserved for those who are "special" (for want of a better term).

What I like about metal is that it is a very broad genre IMO. It covers a wide spectrum, so if I want mellow/brutal/up-beat/doomy/etc music I can probably find it within the metal genre....even classical influences. On the other hand, if I want to listen to pop, there's not much difference within the genre to be longer-appealing to me since there's only so much you can do to a song but for it to still be a pop song at least that's how I see it).


Ok, I'm gonna stop writing now.

 

[Alteredmindeath]

IM pretty sure is Bach or beethoven were alive today there favorite music would be Metal. Metal can be a diverse style of music, all forms can be incorporated into metal.

 

[Fields Of Sorrow]

^can't wait till arasmas sees this

 

[Hox]

His fiery wrath will surely immolate the entire thread!

 

[Ross]

most likely

 

[grey knight]

I'd say that they are some of the highest peaks among all the music genres.

 

[Chinese Whispers]

This is a pointless discussion, it all comes down to personal taste and preferences in the end, and music is far to objective to be able to define what makes something 'good'. It'd be like asking why does John like spinach but Dean doesn't? It is just their own personal preference. There are no right or wrong answers. You can wax lyrical about the complexity or validity of different types of music all day long, but in the end it comes down to what moves you and what connects with you, whether that be the most simplistic pop tune or modern avant garde orchestral piece. Why not ask the meaning of life why we are at it?

Oh, and as for stupid assertions that like Bach or Beethoven being metal musicians if they were alive today, that is just laughable and another case of someones own musical self-importance that metal as a whole seems to have a bad affliction.

 

[Arasmas]

lol i have to go to work so i don't have time right now to write the novel-sized response that i want to

 

[BloodSword]

IM pretty sure is Bach or beethoven were alive today there favorite music would be Metal. Metal can be a diverse style of music, all forms can be incorporated into metal.

Agreed. Metal has endless possibilities. And has many directions a composition can go. But, like all genres, you must be at least, good at what you do.

 

[CadenZ]

This is a pointless discussion, it all comes down to personal taste and preferences in the end, and music is far to objective to be able to define what makes something 'good'. It'd be like asking why does John like spinach but Dean doesn't? It is just their own personal preference. There are no right or wrong answers. You can wax lyrical about the complexity or validity of different types of music all day long, but in the end it comes down to what moves you and what connects with you, whether that be the most simplistic pop tune or modern avant garde orchestral piece. Why not ask the meaning of life why we are at it?

Agreed.

And to answer the originally posted question: why I like metal music in general is because much of it has such extreme and raw brute force in the feelings and atmospheres it conveys, but still often incorporates melodic elements, harmonies and interesting rhythms. This can of course be found in a lot of classical music (try some of Chopin's etudes or Shostakovich' string quartets f ex) as well, and I love classical music (I majored in classical piano at music college) - and this can be found in almost all genres. What differs is which feelings you want to express, and the tools with which you convey those feelings; and of course the quality and vision of the composer and musicians - be it country, pop, hip hop, death metal or classical. Not everybody is looking to convey the same feelings in the same way, and that's where you enter the picture - the listener - as it is you who decides what feelings you want the music you listen to express, and in which way - ie. which music you want to listen to. So in the end music is totally subjective, there is no right or wrong, and there are no ultimate truths in what is good music and what is not. Except that Opeth rules

 

[BloodSword]

Agreed.

And to answer the originally posted question: why I like metal music in general is because much of it has such extreme and raw brute force in the feelings and atmospheres it conveys, but still often incorporates melodic elements, harmonies and interesting rhythms. This can of course be found in a lot of classical music (try some of Chopin's etudes or Shostakovich' string quartets f ex) as well, and I love classical music (I majored in classical piano at music college) - and this can be found in almost all genres. What differs is which feelings you want to express, and the tools with which you convey those feelings; and of course the quality and vision of the composer and musicians - be it country, pop, hip hop, death metal or classical. Not everybody is looking to convey the same feelings in the same way, and that's where you enter the picture - the listener - as it is you who decides what feelings you want the music you listen to express, and in which way - ie. which music you want to listen to. So in the end music is totally subjective, there is no right or wrong, and there are no ultimate truths in what is good music and what is not. Except that Opeth rules

Excellent post. Well said.