New Social Thread

[Zephyrus]

Only "stupid" thing I see in it is that he had to have someone translate words into something that I'm assuming he can't read.

As for the phrase, what were his reasons?

It confused me, too. Perhaps if he wanted me to do it in Greek, since that's what I'm teaching him. Perhaps he's Catholic.

I didn't ask for his reasons. It's the professional thing to do not to discuss religious preferences with students unless they ask.

 

[Tonka Time]

Ah, I understand.

Yeah I was thinking he's either Catholic or into the "We are all going to burn for this" black metal.

 

[Vimana]

There's a lot of controversy over the doctrine of the trinity, if that's what you are talking about.

Sort of. I was more talking about the possibility that the holy trinity concept had Vedic roots.

 

[Tonka Time]

And what are the roots of the vedic roots? and of those roots? and of those roots? ...

 

[Vimana]

Who knows? The best guess I've found is the origin of pretty much all religions: humans performing ritualistic behaviors to try and change the course of nature in their favor, and later personifying it into the form of gods, and then yeah.

Pigeons have been shown to exhibit similar behaviors. There were pigeons fed at regular intervals who remembered how they behaved when they were fed and then would do it when they were hungry.

 

[Tonka Time]

At the core lies a phenomenon. Either a human witnessing another human/something in nature behaving differently or something out of this consciousness.

 

[Vimana]

Or a human thinks that that's what's happening. People don't sacrifice a bull so that a giant lobster will magically appear right before their eyes, because they subconsciously know that that's less likely than a natural phenomenon like rain.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

There is reason to believe that natural selection has rewarded gullibility in humans as a survival tactic. It starts with humans who don't fuck with lions because they're told not to live longer than those who have to learn from experience the fact that fucking with a lion will get them killed. It's to too big of a leap to see how this can soon evolve into belief in mythology/religion.

 

[Dak]

Sort of. I was more talking about the possibility that the holy trinity concept had Vedic roots.

Since the Catholic(universal) church was formed by creating a conglomerate religion, I would not be surprised that it had roots going back farther and more varied.

 

[Vimana]

There is reason to believe that natural selection has rewarded gullibility in humans as a survival tactic. It starts with humans who don't fuck with lions because they're told not to live longer than those who have to learn from experience the fact that fucking with a lion will get them killed. It's to too big of a leap to see how this can soon evolve into belief in mythology/religion.

I remember reading in a book, I think the God Delusion, that many logical fallacies evolved as survival tactics. I remember in a cracked article reading that logic was theorized to have been invented as a means of convincing other humans to make choices that one wants them to make. This same reasoning could be used to question things that could keep humans safe, so in turn the ability to think that something not based on logic was fact allowed us to have the best of both worlds: the ability to figure out new things that could increase productivity and survival, but not have things that kept safety called into question.

 

[Dak]

I remember reading in a book, I think the God Delusion, that many logical fallacies evolved as survival tactics. I remember in a cracked article reading that logic was theorized to have been invented as a means of convincing other humans to make choices that one wants them to make. This same reasoning could be used to question things that could keep humans safe, so in turn the ability to think that something not based on logic was fact allowed us to have the best of both worlds: the ability to figure out new things that could increase productivity and survival, but not have things that kept safety called into question.

Logic only leads you to a correct answer if it starts on a correct premise.

 

[Vimana]

That's correct.

There must be some kind of mix of New Age/World and Jazz out there somewhere. Miles Davis mixed with Dead Can Dance? EARGASM. If there isn't any, I will make it. I think it would be an amazing mix.

 

[Tonka Time]

Or a human thinks that that's what's happening.

Phenomenon means "any observable occurrence", so for it to be observed there would be a human. And by observing, that human would use his/her mind and essentially run with the idea....

I read this and thought "......wuh....that's kinda what I meant", unless I'm still mistaken.

I didn't stop at "a human thought it up" and continued the process into "what influenced the creation of this idea".

Maybe an early human got into some shrooms? Maybe a some massive natural event,... Something happened to help create the idea of god/gods. We already know why people don't believe in god/gods.

 

[Vimana]

I don't trust a lot of people's personal accounts for religious things. It's possible for suggestion to completely fabricate a memory in someone when it never actually happened. Also, a memory of something weird can change over time into something way different than what it originally was. Memories are interpretations, not recordings. It's more like a sketch artist than a photograph.

 

[Tonka Time]

Those memories had to have something to influence them in order for them to be created.

So again, at the core lies a phenomenon. Something that early peoples experienced and then ran with in thier minds.

Either there was a being/beings of power and it influenced people to start religion, or the wind blew and that was the influence.

Something took place and was perceived, correctly or incorrectly, and then the mind worked on it.

The mind/body doesn't work very well if there is nothing to perceive.

So people can fabricate ideas, but there is usually something that had to be perceived in order to create them.

 

[Vimana]

Or, you know, they imagined it. I'm sure when you were a kid you imagined all kinds of stuff with your friends. The only difference is back before there was science or even civilization, there weren't exactly adults or education around to tell you it was bullshit.

The mind does work if there is nothing to perceive. Hallucinations. They can happen in all kinds of ways, including sensory deprivation and fixation upon an image.

 

[Tonka Time]

This is what I'm trying to say at this point: What influenced the imagination?

Try it. Imagine something that isn't influenced by the world around you.

It (the mind) still works if there is nothing to perceive, but that hinders the creation of ideas which is why it doesn't work well when the senses are deprived. Those hallucinations can be related to things that "occur naturally", for lack of better words.

Yeah you can deprive senses on someone who had already sensed something and they'd be able to imagine. You could also "deprive" someone from birth, but they'd still feel and use thier sense of touch to help influence thier imagination.

If someone was born into the world and instantly had none of thier senses....
Being born this way would be the only way to find out if one would be able to imagine without perceiving anything.

Being born this way would quickly mean death (or at least never learning/experiencing, so at least brain dead). This is why I don't believe the mind can imagine without having or ever had sensed the surrounding world in any way.

 

[Vimana]

What influenced the imagination was the mystery of the physical world. When Aztec farmers wondered where the hell the water in the sky was coming from, and didn't have science, Tlaloc was as good an explanation as any. When Sumerians wondered why desert winds would come and fuck up their crops, Pazuzu was viable without meteorology.

Are you familiar with god of the gaps?

 

[Tonka Time]

True.

Where the topic started: You said

Who knows? The best guess I've found is the origin of pretty much all religions: humans performing ritualistic behaviors

I'm just saying that a phenomenon(like rain as you mentioned above) is the origin of all religions.
Something occured and was perceived. It went into the brain and the brain formulated an idea. That idea created the "ritualistic behaviours".

Therefore the ritualistic behaviours could not be the origin.

I am not familiar with god of the gaps. What is it?

 

[Vimana]

It's basically the idea that as the world is more and more understood by science, God becomes attributed to only matters that are mysteries.