OT: Debate Thread

[Rose Immortal]

I agree. However, to clarify (as quoted in my post), I was replying to the comment "Sad, yes; avoidable, yes - it's called marriage.", which infers that being abandoned can be avoided by getting married, which is clearly not the case.

OK...sorry, I guess I mistook you for being on the "anti" side. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[SilentRealm]

these are some pretty heavy issues.

i have another rant though, about the walking out thing: whether married or just in a verbally bound relationship, what is with people not having the balls to come out and say "this has happened and this is how i feel and i want out of the relationship etc" - why do alot of people think that disappearing on the other person makes the break easier? sure it makes it easy on the person doing so, but then when they finally do have to confront the person they have hurt they tell their friends that person is crazy/psycho or whatever because they have had an emotional reaction to being treated that way.. I see it alot and its disgusting in my opinion. I believe that in these situations the truth is always much better than a lie - its like pulling a bandaid off, sure it hurts alot at first but then it's over with.. I don't believe people should be left hanging on to someone who clearly isn't worth it.

 

[1by4by9]

Once I did tell a cheatee what's going on. They worked out their problems but later I got to hear from the cheatee "I forgive you for trying to mess up our relationship." They were my friends, they still are but I'll never forget what happened.

 

[Horus]

Wait. She forgives you for trying to mess up your relationship, or their relationship?

 

[SilentRealm]

Once I did tell a cheatee what's going on. They worked out their problems but later I got to hear from the cheatee "I forgive you for trying to mess up our relationship." They were my friends, they still are but I'll never forget what happened.

in that case the cheatee is clearly an idiot..

 

[1by4by9]

Ptah, their relationship.

SR, yeah. But I don't mind anymore, I see them once or twice a year so I'm OK with it. Their relationship seems to be fine and that's good. I just wonder will they ever gain each other's full trust...

 

[Beelzebub]

To answer the question about cheating, I would tell the cheatee.

If I was being cheated on, I think that phrase "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" sums it up best. If whoever I was with came forth and volunteered the information himself, that would take a lot of guts. Depending on the situation, how much I like them, the circumstances of the cheating, and the status of the relationship, I would probably forgive him the first time, but it would take a while for the trust to be regained. If it happened again, that fucker is gone.

 

[SilentRealm]

nah I wouldnt forgive a cheater.. sure its natural to look at other attractive people but its quite another to get with them - that tells me that something is seriously wrong with your relationship if theyre willing to stray, and in that case.. plenty more fish in the sea..

 

[ABQShredHead]

nah I wouldnt forgive a cheater.. sure its natural to look at other attractive people but its quite another to get with them - that tells me that something is seriously wrong with your relationship if theyre willing to stray, and in that case.. plenty more fish in the sea..

I agree. My mind is such that the incident would stick in my craw constantly and I would never trust that person again. A relationship without trust isn't much of a relationship. Regardless of their reasons for cheating, I would infer they prefer another's company to mine and give them their freedom to do as they please.

 

[Rose Immortal]

I agree. My mind is such that the incident would stick in my craw constantly and I would never trust that person again. A relationship without trust isn't much of a relationship. Regardless of their reasons for cheating, I would infer they prefer another's company to mine and give them their freedom to do as they please.

I feel the same. I know myself well enough to realize I would never forget even if I did emotionally forgive to where I didn't hate the person.

 

[proulxski]

If you're in a relationship of any kind...marriage or just b/f g/f long going! Their is supposed to be trust and comitment. Even on the lowest level of relationships! finding somsone else attractive is one thing, doing something witht hem is another...I agree 110%! To cheat on somone takes a vast amount of ballz I think, because the person being cheated on feels like shity afterwords, and wonder whats wrong with them! You thhink you have a good relationship, nice sex, nice WTV you got! Than they go sleep with someone else and you're like... WTF is wrong with me you had to go lay with someone else? (yes I have been cheated on lol)

Marriage has its benefits...this is the main reason why people get married! Also the main reason why people get divorced people get married at too young of an age, or to intement at to young of a age than they grow older and have some life changes which makes them realize they're not so much in love with this person!

 

[SilentRealm]

I was reading some interesting things in my psych book about marriage and relationships today..

.. women who marry in their 20's are more likely to be murdered by their husbands than women who marry in their 30's/40's - however women who merely co-habitate in their 30's/40's are more likely to be murdered by their partner than those who do so in their 20's.. bottom line, cohabitate in 20's.. marry in 30's.. apparently its something to do with men feeling like they need to be in control of their partners and they would rather kill them than let them leave the relationship.

.. apparently 84% of today's societies are polygynous - men with multiple wives/sexual partners etc as opposed to 1% polyandrous, which is women with multiple husbands/sexual partners. Monogamy is apparently only a mere 15%..

.. 20-50% of all married people will cheat on each other at some point. and men are less forgiving if their partner has a sexual infidelity, as opposed to women who can often forgive a sexual infidelity yet place higher stakes on emotional infidelity.

.. 36% of men and 56% of women have apparently had their partners poached from them (stolen away from the relationship by another party). What makes a successful poacher? If you're a woman you need to make yourself as physically desirable as possible, and if you're a man you need to make yourself as dominant and financially desirable as possible - no surprises there.. extraverted people are also apparently more poachable than introverted people..

 

[ABQShredHead]

Interesting facts, and very believable. The polygynous/polyandrous numbers knocked me for a loop though. But, that's talking on a worldly basis, of which my paradigm (the US) is a mere pebble.

No brainers on the Poachability Indices. haha. Girls just have to look super hot and guys need to bring home lots of bacon.

 

[Fakerofdeath]

Yeah, let's make divorce the obsolete concept! That's a spledid idea.

But, then you'd have the issue of "he/she physically abuses me and if I stay in the marriage I fear for my life". Perhaps we can move to more of a Hammurabi's Code-type law system regarding marriage conduct.

If the women/man is saying that, then i would simply reply that you should have known he/she was a creep/Ike Turner before you married him/her. But Hammurabi's code is a good idea.


"If a wife has a relationship with another man, both shall be tied and thrown into water, but the wife can be pardoned by her husband and given to the king as a slave"

"If a man uses violence on another man’s wife to sleep with her, the man shall be killed, but the wife shall be blameless"

 

[Taliwakker]

apparently its something to do with men feeling like they need to be in control of their partners and they would rather kill them than let them leave the relationship.

i've just finished listening to 'If i Can't have You' by Spread Eagle.....about a guy that lived in their apartment block that chopped up his girly and fed her to the homeless people in some park in New York.

 

[SilentRealm]

i've just finished listening to 'If i Can't have You' by Spread Eagle.....about a guy that lived in their apartment block that chopped up his girly and fed her to the homeless people in some park in New York.

interesting.. must.. listen to this song..

 

[Beelzebub]

OK, Dissection thread religious debate can be discussed here so as not to make that thread any more derailed than it already is. To reiterate the rules, the topic of marriage/infidelity can still be talked about, just make it clear as to what you're talking about (though I can't imagine anyone having anything else to say about it). Feel free to bring up anything you wish to speak about. Another topic is going to be introduced.... now!

Does original sin, and sin in general exist?

A vote for no. It is indeed wrong to assume that people are intrinsically evil, and there are too many classic ambiguous moral dilemmas which can't be judged as being sinful. Example: if a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, is that a sin? Would it be more sinful if said man killed someone for the bread? Another scenario: you and your entire family are hiding from cops trying to kill you all, and your baby starts crying loudly enough to blow your cover. You smother it to save the rest of your family. Is this a sin?

I believe that people act instinctively, and that it's human nature for people to look out for themselves, and appropriately so. If my life was at risk, I would be thinking of ways to save my ass; thinking about whether or not I'd be doing something sinful would definitely not be a priority.

 

[theVikingR]

There are far too many moral shades of grey simply owing to the way humans are - there is no clear cut right and wrong for the huge majority of issues. If a sin is something that is evil, then how do you account for all the things in between good and evil?

If there is a god, then they'd understand this more than any human because he/she was the one who created this complex universe. Also if this god wanted people to truly adhere to his/her laws, then why didn't he/she make it more clear and just let everyone know what they were so that we know where we stood? That's real classy, inventing sin and only telling a few people about it.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Let me pose this question to you, Beez: is self-interest to be equated with virtue? I don't know that it is. In your second scenario, I would rather die in the place of my child because I can give my life knowingly and of my own free will. But to place my interests above a child who cannot make that choice would be the sin of selfishness. My duty as a mother would be protection of my child including at the cost of my own life.

 

[theVikingR]

transferring from the other thread:

As for that instance, I know that they just didn't want me to make myself sick by overindulging...at that time, I was too little to have that kind of foresight. It's right for parents to protect their children from things that can hurt them--I see that as no different than keeping your kids from sticking your fingers in an electrical outlet (while that's MORE of a threat to health, it's the same principle).

And is the kid supposed to obey in the case of child abuse? The point was that there will always be exceptions and grey areas.

If I don't believe hunger exists, then am I never hungry? It seems like you're suggesting total relativism, of which the question I just posed would be a consequence.

Plus, under the umbrella of "sin" falls stuff like lying, cheating, stealing, and so on. Even if you object to the word "sin" for some reason, it doesn't make sense to deny the existence of its component parts.

? There's no comparison there with sin - hunger can be proved to exist through its effects: you die if you don't eat. How is sin anything like that? Hunger is a physical reality. Sin is a concept that you believe in and I don't.

Sin is an evil deed according to the judgement of Jesus/God. Since I don't believe in them in the Christian sense, I certainly don't put any stake in their apparent judgement which I deem to be fictitious. I might think those things you mention are bad, but that's because I judge them to be bad according to my moral code and because I agree with the common sense of the law.