I liken bands such as Melvins, Kilslug or Flipper as proto-sludge or first wave sludge because much like first wave black metal, it doesn't necessarily sound much like the second wave but it has certain attitudes that helped to define the style.
Bands like Swans, No Trend, Killdozer and Harvey Milk also played a big part. Some industrial too. I remember an interview with Mike Williams and Jimmy Bower from Eyehategod where both said a major musical revelation was hearing the Melvins and Godflesh on the same mixtape. Of course, the massive influence of Black Flag's
My War can't be overstated. Buzz Osborne has even said the second side of
My War is what really got the Melvins interested in slower tempos. Never really though of sludge in terms of "waves" like black metal but that's actually an interesting way of looking at it. Out of curiosity, what would you consider to be the "third" wave? All that "post" (shudder) Isis type garbage?
Is Melvins' Houdini sludge then? Because the preceding album, Lysol, certainly is.
Absolutly. At least the majority of it is. Personally, I've always felt that sludge, at least in its more basic form, began with the Melvins. Even though they've always had an experimental side to them and have played around with various sounds/styles on virtually every album its not hard to see how what they were doing on those early records shaped the bands that came alone in the late 80's/early 90's.
The punk influence is also pretty interesting when it comes to sludge. Take the fast bits in Eyehategod which resemble the classic American hardcore style as opposed to Crowbar, who's speedier parts are more reminiscent of the later 80's New York crossover style. Speaking of those two bands, its funny how both are thought of as the founders of what we now call sludge yet save for the "tune low, play slow" philosophy they really don't sound alike. That's what was so great about all the bands that formed during the "second wave" as you put it. They all shared similar influences but none were identical sounding. Eyehategod didn't sound exactly like Crowbar who didn't sound like Buzzoven who in turn didn't sound like Grief who were different from Cavity and Noothgrush and on and on...
And just to chime in on the Mastodon genre conundrum a bit, I'd say they're more of an "associate" type of band. The sludge influence is defiantly there, especially on their real early stuff but I think the term "dirty prog", which is actually what Brann Dailor dubbed it, fits it quite nicely. It defiantly pops up time and time again, particular on
Blood Mountain and the title track to
Crack the Skye immediately springs to mind but I never considered them to be a full-on sludge band.
