the dynamite politics thread
- Thread starter Malaclypse
- Start date
rahvin
keeper of the flame
veil the sky
Lexicon V
Seems it's the same everywhere... radical leftist is obviosuly the thing to be now. Preferably with hair dyed black, 60's style clothes or just plain weird clothes and also shirts with dead communist revolutionaries on - and it's important to remember to be as "alternative" and "different" as possible. It seems to me that it's mostly the upper and middle class kids who are into this thing - the real "working class" (although it's hard to tell who is working class nowadays) are either not interested in politics or belonging to another party than the leftist one.
The school I go to is filled with these trendy communists, and sadly only a few of them actually know what they're talking about - they can have intelligent conversations about the ideology and all that belongs to it. The rest of them... it's just sad.
Oh and while I'm at it... from what I've seen many of the so called human shields are products of this thinking. That's another thing that annoys me. First of all, the thought that someone, during a war, would absolutely NOT bomb a certain facility because there happen to be a bunch of crazy Europeans there, is arrogant beyond belief. That is like openly stating that yes, our white european lives are worth more than the iraqi civilians' (for example). And as for those who went to Iraq... how naive can a person be? "Saddam is so nice, he lets us stay in luxury hotels, we eat good food, are driven around in fancy cars and get all kinds of privileges, all that while the people that we were supposed to protect are dying on the streets..." and then they're surprised when Saddam wants to place them at places of military importance?
Oh well...
The school I go to is filled with these trendy communists, and sadly only a few of them actually know what they're talking about - they can have intelligent conversations about the ideology and all that belongs to it. The rest of them... it's just sad.
Oh and while I'm at it... from what I've seen many of the so called human shields are products of this thinking. That's another thing that annoys me. First of all, the thought that someone, during a war, would absolutely NOT bomb a certain facility because there happen to be a bunch of crazy Europeans there, is arrogant beyond belief. That is like openly stating that yes, our white european lives are worth more than the iraqi civilians' (for example). And as for those who went to Iraq... how naive can a person be? "Saddam is so nice, he lets us stay in luxury hotels, we eat good food, are driven around in fancy cars and get all kinds of privileges, all that while the people that we were supposed to protect are dying on the streets..." and then they're surprised when Saddam wants to place them at places of military importance?
Oh well...
veil the sky
Lexicon V
Northern Lights said:
and let me guess, at the first sign of any support for the war or the establishment on the whole, do they instantly hit the 'you're just a product of the government's propaganda machine' line?
rahvin
keeper of the flame
@veil the sky: even in times of peace - as the years i've spent in high school largely were - any sign of agreement with any decision taken by any authority was seen as a suspicious episode of you lowering your standards. because what kind of economical, social or international rule can we ever find to be decent when compared to vague utopian dreams?
i would at least respect their naivety if it was honest, but of course these same individuals start acting like huge greedy pricks as soon as they can put their hands on the smallest piece of the cake.
rahvin.
i would at least respect their naivety if it was honest, but of course these same individuals start acting like huge greedy pricks as soon as they can put their hands on the smallest piece of the cake.
rahvin.
veil the sky
Lexicon V
haha yes! true
but i do find the condescending patronising name calling the worst thing of all! i have the patience to listen to people with a different viewpoint to my own and have a reasonable debate with them. but that doesn't seem to be part of the liberals' vocabulary. the 'name calling' tactic seems to creep in a little to early to make it worth trying!
but i do find the condescending patronising name calling the worst thing of all! i have the patience to listen to people with a different viewpoint to my own and have a reasonable debate with them. but that doesn't seem to be part of the liberals' vocabulary. the 'name calling' tactic seems to creep in a little to early to make it worth trying!
rahvin
keeper of the flame
well, the conservative/liberal stance depends a lot on the country, and i guess the same goes for their acceptance of a discussion based on comparing opinions.
in italy, for instance, there is next to no right-wing culture of any kind. this is mainly due to the defeat of most conservative parties and ideas just after ww 2. it is true that back then, the majority of the opposition to the fascist regime was brought up and supported by the leftists, and not only in an attempt to get closer to mother russia. the real "liberation" of the people in this country started from left-wing idealists who did put their lives at stake to oppose the nazis and help the americans get to italy as quickly as possible.
these people have left a meaningful inheritance that permeated society for the following 50 years. my grandfather was one who upheld these values, too, and he certainly had no intention to entrue any "communist dream", though he always voted for a left-wing party and he always will, no matter the evidence that said party is nowadays basically made of a group of bank-robbers.
however, the sad truth is that - as is often the case - a political/cultural vein was embraced and the other was rejected altogether. there has been no room at all for the development of a non-liberal culture in italy in the past 50 years, because at the first hint of a dissenting opinion you were labeled as a fascist. and i understand the fear, i understand the desire to exorcize demons past, but the result is now the media, public schools, universities and most renowned opinion leaders all adhere to an outdated and badly worn liberal stereotype.
this long rant was just to say: where i live i can't expect much more than name-calling from the conservative, actually, since you virtually cannot be an educated person and be a conservative. the liberals, on the other hand, do not really need to insult their adversaries as long as they're so rooted in public opinion. it's not as if they have anything exceptionally interesting to say anymore - the fall of the welfare state left them with nothing but lies for the masses, who are still willing to be tricked into believing hard times are not gonna come - but they probably can say it in french.
rahvin.
in italy, for instance, there is next to no right-wing culture of any kind. this is mainly due to the defeat of most conservative parties and ideas just after ww 2. it is true that back then, the majority of the opposition to the fascist regime was brought up and supported by the leftists, and not only in an attempt to get closer to mother russia. the real "liberation" of the people in this country started from left-wing idealists who did put their lives at stake to oppose the nazis and help the americans get to italy as quickly as possible.
these people have left a meaningful inheritance that permeated society for the following 50 years. my grandfather was one who upheld these values, too, and he certainly had no intention to entrue any "communist dream", though he always voted for a left-wing party and he always will, no matter the evidence that said party is nowadays basically made of a group of bank-robbers.
however, the sad truth is that - as is often the case - a political/cultural vein was embraced and the other was rejected altogether. there has been no room at all for the development of a non-liberal culture in italy in the past 50 years, because at the first hint of a dissenting opinion you were labeled as a fascist. and i understand the fear, i understand the desire to exorcize demons past, but the result is now the media, public schools, universities and most renowned opinion leaders all adhere to an outdated and badly worn liberal stereotype.
this long rant was just to say: where i live i can't expect much more than name-calling from the conservative, actually, since you virtually cannot be an educated person and be a conservative. the liberals, on the other hand, do not really need to insult their adversaries as long as they're so rooted in public opinion. it's not as if they have anything exceptionally interesting to say anymore - the fall of the welfare state left them with nothing but lies for the masses, who are still willing to be tricked into believing hard times are not gonna come - but they probably can say it in french.
rahvin.
veil the sky
Lexicon V
rahvin said:well, the conservative/liberal stance depends a lot on the country, and i guess the same goes for their acceptance of a discussion based on comparing opinions.
in italy, for instance, there is next to no right-wing culture of any kind. this is mainly due to the defeat of most conservative parties and ideas just after ww 2. it is true that back then, the majority of the opposition to the fascist regime was brought up and supported by the leftists, and not only in an attempt to get closer to mother russia. the real "liberation" of the people in this country started from left-wing idealists who did put their lives at stake to oppose the nazis and help the americans get to italy as quickly as possible.
these people have left a meaningful inheritance that permeated society for the following 50 years. my grandfather was one who upheld these values, too, and he certainly had no intention to entrue any "communist dream", though he always voted for a left-wing party and he always will, no matter the evidence that said party is nowadays basically made of a group of bank-robbers.
however, the sad truth is that - as is often the case - a political/cultural vein was embraced and the other was rejected altogether. there has been no room at all for the development of a non-liberal culture in italy in the past 50 years, because at the first hint of a dissenting opinion you were labeled as a fascist. and i understand the fear, i understand the desire to exorcize demons past, but the result is now the media, public schools, universities and most renowned opinion leaders all adhere to an outdated and badly worn liberal stereotype.
this long rant was just to say: where i live i can't expect much more than name-calling from the conservative, actually, since you virtually cannot be an educated person and be a conservative. the liberals, on the other hand, do not really need to insult their adversaries as long as they're so rooted in public opinion. it's not as if they have anything exceptionally interesting to say anymore - the fall of the welfare state left them with nothing but lies for the masses, who are still willing to be tricked into believing hard times are not gonna come - but they probably can say it in french.
rahvin.
hmm yeh italian politics is a very strange beast! the italians i know are all very left wing!
are conservatives always viewed suspiciously as neo-fascist mussolini sympathisers then?
being called a nazi is what is encountered rather often in germany too. therefore there are no right-wing-parties (which is good) which get more than, say, 3% of the overall votes in an election (you need 5% to get seats in parliament). but on the other hand, the refusal of right-wing parties and organizations (obviously deeply rooted in the events of 1933-45) has been brought up to this point when you even can't criticize sharon and his politics in israel unless you don't want to be condemned by the "zentralrat der juden", which is the political arm of the jews in germany. and if you are condemned by them, you are obviously against them and therefore labeled nazi. that's a bit too far-fetched.
rahvin
keeper of the flame
@veil the sky: in time and through our innate ability to seep through the cracks and mistify, we have collapsed on parties that only hint at the extreme, while actually being very mild and moderate. voting either those who call themselves liberals or those who say they're conservative is widely accepted, provided you're not the odd man out and start voting what's unpopular among people your age or belonging to your class.
there are, however, specific statements that result in you being called a fascist. for instance:
- saying that illegal immigrants from outside the ue ought to be thrown out or sent back straight away;
- saying that young hippies parked outside your window playing loud music until 4am should get a job so they have to wake up early in the morning like you do;
- saying that in order for you to actually get a job that allows you to wake up later than 9am, a lot of other people will eventually have to toil from sunup to sundown;
- saying that a male politician is handsome and cool.
@vc: there is always the risk of falling in the opposite prejudice. there is often also the risk of compromising too much only to avoid displeasing anyone. broadly speaking, i think it's safe to say europe is pretty scared of any extreme right now, a mentality that took centuries of wars to come to the surface but apparently did not result in the sort of creative harmony some predicted it would...
rahvin.
there are, however, specific statements that result in you being called a fascist. for instance:
- saying that illegal immigrants from outside the ue ought to be thrown out or sent back straight away;
- saying that young hippies parked outside your window playing loud music until 4am should get a job so they have to wake up early in the morning like you do;
- saying that in order for you to actually get a job that allows you to wake up later than 9am, a lot of other people will eventually have to toil from sunup to sundown;
- saying that a male politician is handsome and cool.
@vc: there is always the risk of falling in the opposite prejudice. there is often also the risk of compromising too much only to avoid displeasing anyone. broadly speaking, i think it's safe to say europe is pretty scared of any extreme right now, a mentality that took centuries of wars to come to the surface but apparently did not result in the sort of creative harmony some predicted it would...
rahvin.
veil the sky
Lexicon V
no. he is trying to quell the kind of sensationalist rubbish that the media has started to hysterically pedal to make us think that the troops are going to invade and occupy syria now. the same kind of language YOU are using.
syria has questions to answer does not equal syria is going to be invaded....
rahvin
keeper of the flame
however, aside from any political judgement this can carry along, i think there is a definite strategy behind america's newfound dislike for an increasingly high number of countries in the middle-east. they're trying to prevent these nations from banding together and posing an economical threat to the states. i think that in order to achieve this result, the states are ready to invade again if the need arises.
given the position syria is now, it doesn't seem so far-fetched to fathom that invasion (or some other kind of war?) is a possibility.
rahvin.
given the position syria is now, it doesn't seem so far-fetched to fathom that invasion (or some other kind of war?) is a possibility.
rahvin.
veil the sky
Lexicon V
i don't see it as a justifiable invasion. i don't see how the US, even if it were solely intent on dissipating the economic powers of the middle east, could justify a syrian invasion to anyone else in the world in the way they have with the iraqi invasion.
this is crucial to consider since all the criticisms aimed at the iraqi war effort based upon US economic oil agendas completely ignore the fact that the US and the europeans' economic considerations in this area are in direct and stark contrast! if the US are fighting it for oil, then we sure as hell aren't!! (the main argument being that Bush wants to change the primary trading currency of iraqi/middle-eastern oil from the euro to the dollar....... how does this benefit the UK or Spain or Australia etc etc...?)
this is crucial to consider since all the criticisms aimed at the iraqi war effort based upon US economic oil agendas completely ignore the fact that the US and the europeans' economic considerations in this area are in direct and stark contrast! if the US are fighting it for oil, then we sure as hell aren't!! (the main argument being that Bush wants to change the primary trading currency of iraqi/middle-eastern oil from the euro to the dollar....... how does this benefit the UK or Spain or Australia etc etc...?)
rahvin
keeper of the flame
in fact i don't see invasion as a viable solution right now, considering that the usa didn't really got away with it this time round either... the general european consensus would not justify an invasion of syria as it was already frowning upon a war against iraq.
i'm just assuming the states are getting somewhat caught up in the machine they were so eager to set in motion: america's war machine bent on putting a foot in as soon as possible is gaining momentum and i'm not sure this administration is willing or able to stop it. they clearly misjudged eu's reaction to their proposal of putting saddam down, but to take it back would have meant looking even weaker, and giving up plans of controlling the region for a pretty long time.
now that they went and got rid of the hated dictator/former cia-agent the ball is still in their court. if my recollections of history past do not fail me, the worst wars ever have been those that started when all parties involved thought the others would back down long before actually facing a conflict. the states cannot stop pushing their luck, the europeans cannot give in to their demands, and the middle-east sure cannot just surrender the oil to anyone.
it's not a very promising outlook. thank god propaganda will tell me i sleep safely tucked up in bed.
rahvin.
i'm just assuming the states are getting somewhat caught up in the machine they were so eager to set in motion: america's war machine bent on putting a foot in as soon as possible is gaining momentum and i'm not sure this administration is willing or able to stop it. they clearly misjudged eu's reaction to their proposal of putting saddam down, but to take it back would have meant looking even weaker, and giving up plans of controlling the region for a pretty long time.
now that they went and got rid of the hated dictator/former cia-agent the ball is still in their court. if my recollections of history past do not fail me, the worst wars ever have been those that started when all parties involved thought the others would back down long before actually facing a conflict. the states cannot stop pushing their luck, the europeans cannot give in to their demands, and the middle-east sure cannot just surrender the oil to anyone.
it's not a very promising outlook. thank god propaganda will tell me i sleep safely tucked up in bed.
rahvin.
veil the sky
Lexicon V
haha yeh thank god we are all 'brainwashed misguided fools!!!'
i'd hate to be a panicky paranoid liberal about all this!
i'd hate to be a panicky paranoid liberal about all this!
wildfyr
unus spiritus est
____________________________________
Why did the chicken cross the road?.......
GEORGE W. BUSH
We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want
to know if the chicken is on our side of the road or not. The chicken
is either with us or it is against us. There is no middle ground
here.
JACQUES CHIRAC
The chicken has rights, mais oui? We care not whether the chicken
crosses the road since we will claim her eggs regardless of on which
side of the road she lays them, n'est-ce pas? Should les Americains
succeed in seizing them, we shall insist on coq au vin!
TONY BLAIR
It is clear to Her Majesty's government that the chicken has
disguised and hidden her eggs, which, under extraordinary
circumstances, particularly on All Halloween, can certainly be
used as weapons of mass destruction.
COLIN POWELL
Now at the left of the screen, you clearly see the satellite image of
the chicken crossing the road.
HANS BLIX
We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet
been allowed access to the other side of the road.
MOHAMMED ALDOURI (Iraq ambassador)
The chicken did not cross the road. This is a complete fabrication.
We don't even have a chicken.
SADDAM HUSSEIN
This was an unprovoked act of rebellion and we were quite justified
in dropping 50 tons of nerve gas on it.
RALPH NADER
The chicken's habitat on the original side of the road had been
polluted by unchecked industrialist greed. The chicken did not
reach the unspoiled habitat on the other side of the road because
it was crushed by the wheels of a gas-guzzling SUV.
PAT BUCHANAN
To steal a job from a decent, hard-working American.
RUSH LIMBAUGH
I don't know why the chicken crossed the road, but I'll bet it was
getting a government grant to cross the road, and I'll bet someone
out there is already forming a support group to help chickens with
crossing-the-road syndrome.
Can you believe this? How much more of this can real Americans take?
Chickens crossing the road paid for by their tax dollars,and when I
say tax dollars, I'm talking about your money, money the government
took from you to build roads for chickens to cross.
MARTHA STEWART
No one called to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a
standing order at the farmer's market to sell my eggs when the price
dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider
information.
JERRY FALWELL
Because the chicken was gay! Isn't it obvious? Can't you people See
the plain truth in front of your face? The chicken was going to the
"other side." That's what they call it? - the other side. Yes, my
friends, that Chicken is gay. And, if you eat that chicken, you will
become gay too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this
abomination that the liberal media whitewashes with seemingly
harmless phrases like "the other side."
DR. SEUSS
Did the chicken cross the road?
Did he cross it with a toad?
Yes, the chicken crossed the road,
But why it crossed, I've not been told!
ERNEST HEMINGWAY
To die. In the rain. Alone.
MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.
I envision a world where all chickens will be free to cross roads
without having their motives called into question.
GRANDPA
In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Someone
told us that the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough
for us.
BARBARA WALTERS
Isn't that interesting? In a few moments we will be listening to the
chicken tell, for the first time, the heart-warming story of how it
experienced a serious case of molting and went on to accomplish its
life-long dream of crossing the road.
JOHN LENNON
Imagine all the chickens crossing roads in peace.
ARISTOTLE
It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.
KARL MARX
It was an historical inevitability.
VOLTAIRE
I may not agree with what the chicken did, but I will defend to the
death its right to do it.
RONALD REAGAN
What chicken?
CAPTAIN KIRK
To boldly go where no chicken has gone before.
FOX MULDER
You saw it cross the road with your own eyes! How many more chickens
have to cross before you believe it?
SIGMUND FREUD
The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken crossed The
road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity.
BILL GATES
I have just released eChicken 2003, which will not only cross roads,
but will lay eggs, file your important documents, and balance your
checkbook - and Internet Explorer is an inextricable part of
eChicken.
ALBERT EINSTEIN
Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move beneath
the chicken?
COLONEL SANDERS
I missed one?
____________________________________
wildfyr
unus spiritus est
:Spam:
_____________________________
Bush TV Guide
Sunday
7:30 -- My 3 Sins (booze, drugs, stupidity)
8:00 -- George Knows Best
8:30 -- Let's Mecca Deal (starring Dick Cheney)
9:00 -- I Dream of (killing) Mohammed (with Franklin Graham)
9:30 -- The Bush-supporter Hillbillies
Monday
7:00 -- Rumsfeld
7:30 -- Mad About Everything
8:00 -- Monday Night Warring
8:30 -- Win Bin Laden's Money
9:00 -- Allah McBeal
Tuesday
7:30 -- Wheel of Cheney's Terror
8:00 -- The Price Is Right If W Says It's Right
8:30 -- Children Are Forbidden From Saying The
Most Liberal Things
9:00 -- Guantanamo Bay's Wackiest Bloopers
9:30 -- Rumsfeld, The Yankee Imperialist Arab Slayer
Wednesday
7:30 -- Beat The Press
8:00 -- When George Attacks
8:30 -- Two Guys, a Girl, and a Bible
9:00 -- Just Shoot Everyone
9:30 - Oilwatch
Thursday
7:00 - George Loves CEO's
7:30 -- Survivor Baghdad
8:00 -- George's Closet Full of Bailouts by Daddy
8:30 -- Married With Drunken Children
9:00 -- Eye For An Eye Witness News
Friday
7:00 -- Judge Saddam
7:30 -- Suddenly Sanctions
8:00 -- Who Wants To Bury An Arab Millionaire
Saturday
8:00 -- Trashed Antiquities Hit the Road Show
8:30 -- Palace And Garden Television
9:00 -- No Witness Left Alive News Saturday
9:30 -- Telefundies
10:00 -- Nuke 54, Where Are You?
_____________________________
eye for an eyewitness news.
_____________________________
Bush TV Guide
Sunday
7:30 -- My 3 Sins (booze, drugs, stupidity)
8:00 -- George Knows Best
8:30 -- Let's Mecca Deal (starring Dick Cheney)
9:00 -- I Dream of (killing) Mohammed (with Franklin Graham)
9:30 -- The Bush-supporter Hillbillies
Monday
7:00 -- Rumsfeld
7:30 -- Mad About Everything
8:00 -- Monday Night Warring
8:30 -- Win Bin Laden's Money
9:00 -- Allah McBeal
Tuesday
7:30 -- Wheel of Cheney's Terror
8:00 -- The Price Is Right If W Says It's Right
8:30 -- Children Are Forbidden From Saying The
Most Liberal Things
9:00 -- Guantanamo Bay's Wackiest Bloopers
9:30 -- Rumsfeld, The Yankee Imperialist Arab Slayer
Wednesday
7:30 -- Beat The Press
8:00 -- When George Attacks
8:30 -- Two Guys, a Girl, and a Bible
9:00 -- Just Shoot Everyone
9:30 - Oilwatch
Thursday
7:00 - George Loves CEO's
7:30 -- Survivor Baghdad
8:00 -- George's Closet Full of Bailouts by Daddy
8:30 -- Married With Drunken Children
9:00 -- Eye For An Eye Witness News
Friday
7:00 -- Judge Saddam
7:30 -- Suddenly Sanctions
8:00 -- Who Wants To Bury An Arab Millionaire
Saturday
8:00 -- Trashed Antiquities Hit the Road Show
8:30 -- Palace And Garden Television
9:00 -- No Witness Left Alive News Saturday
9:30 -- Telefundies
10:00 -- Nuke 54, Where Are You?
_____________________________
eye for an eyewitness news.
Villain
Doctor BenQuillity
at the chicken.But who said this one:
wildfyr said:
?
-Villain ("the chicken crossed the road to become a septic broiler")
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