the dynamite politics thread

[MadeInNewJersey]

Originally posted by Samarkol
I do find the USA very hypocrital, uneducated and arrogant. I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE ALL THAT. But a vast majority of population live with the two last caracteristics, and the politicians live with the first one.

Samarkol

Fine, I'll accept your half-assed explanation & apology.

But please, enlighten me. Name me a country where the vast majority of the population *isn't* hypocritical, uneducated and arrogant?

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

@Villain: Thinking about what I asked you yesterday. Forget it. I don't really care about your sources now that I think about it. You said far too many biased, ignorant, asinine things regarding the American PEOPLE (not government), yes, people, for me to ever again take you seriously in a political discussion. You've proven to me and MANY others - who may or may not admit it - that just like EVERYONE ELSE (*gasp*), you're allowing your own personal biases and prejudices (yes, that's what they are Villain) to color your perception & thinking past the point of rationality.

And since I'm now your enemy, seeing as how I pay taxes and all, I we don't really have much more to say to each other on political topics. Dark Tranquillity fine, but that's about all you and I have in common.

Can't wait to visit Finland next summer. I just want to see if you're the majority or the obsessed minority.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

I say fuck peace - Start the fight - drop the big one baby!
Yeah - Hell is here - Welcome it without fear

War raining Death - To kill society
This is not a dream - Open the doors!

A big fuck off-finger and a Devil-sign to this lying world of shit!
It means nothing to me
And I've got this feeling that the bastards gotta pay!


Salmy (tired of politics)

 

[rahvin]

@salmy: do you think al-qaeda will let you listen to a band called like that and with such lyrics? no way, mister.

rahvin.

 

[hyena]

well, rahvin, don't make me say i am starting to root for the enemy...

hyena

 

[Wolfman Von Jones]

Sorry for the typo in your name VILLAIN. Is that better? No I dont think your sources are very reliable, I would trust my government which has done so much for me, than a bunch of independant researches from Iraq. Sorry that is my opinion.

I really dont care what you have to say anymroe, like Markgugs said you attacked the people in America way too much. I never said most of the Finnish population are uneducated, and ignorant, that would just be brash. You, like the rest of the world, are entitled to you own opinion and I respect that whole heartedly, but dont judge a countires people when you have never met us, or have been to the U.S.

Nick(and Villain please learn to not be an asshole when your discussing a topic with people)

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by NicktheClayman
but dont judge a countires people when you have never met us, or have been to the U.S.

Seeing as I have been to the states for 3 months, I can say for sure that, I have never met a bigger bunch of morons in my entire life.

I actually spoke to a gollege student there and I will type something I found pretty much stupid, we were talking something about the bible and shit and this is a part of that discussion:

Him: Jesus is was alive, that has been proven.
Me: How do you know that for a fact?
Him: Cos I have seen pictures of him.
Me: OK, you mean the painting of him, those don't prove anything really.
Him: No, I mean real pictures, taken with a camera.
Me: Yeah, well I think those have been taken of the paintings.
Him: Dude, I have seen a picture of him on the cross.
Me: Well, that has been taken of a painting.
Him: No, someone took it, when he was on the cross.

This is pretty much where I burst out laughing, the guy actually thought there had been someone there, taking pictures of Jesus hanging on cross. The scariest thing is, this guy and his friend believed this to be so. And that is not even the only story.

Scary shit, these are the people we let police the world, we are all going to hell in a hand basket.

 

[rahvin]

come on now, salmy, you use this to judge a population?

of course this is ludicrous, but so are girls in italy who think you get pregnant if you kiss a guy, or thousands of other morons around the world who have the silliest ideas around and couldn't find their asses without being helped by a p.i.
still to me there is no ground whatsoever to call this idiocy population-based. it depends on culture, on upbringing, on sheer intellect, but to think it's peculiar to a specific people... now, with due respect, i find it absurd. don't you think it borders on racism?

rahvin.

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by markgugs
You've proven to me and MANY others - who may or may not admit it - that just like EVERYONE ELSE (*gasp*), you're allowing your own personal biases and prejudices (yes, that's what they are Villain) to color your perception & thinking past the point of rationality.

I admit that - actually, I thought I admitted that before already. Of all the topics in the world, this is the one I take most subjectively. Dunno why - I'll try to get into that at a later point, like I promised to Rahvin.

However, to your point about American people vs. American government, I really can't find much difference. Unlike the Iraqi people, who have no chances to overthrow their current government (thanks to CIA, who made sure no-one inside Iraq could oppose Saddam in the eighties), the American people could rather easily overthrow Bush and his military-fascist followers. The fact that the Americans don't do this (and that they even allowed an idiot like Bush to become their president) makes them partners-in-crime (against mankind) in my eyes. A subjective view, once again, but not less so than any anti-Iraq view, I'd say.

-Villain

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Originally posted by rahvin
come on now, salmy, you use this to judge a population?

Had this been the only incident, no, but seeing as this is just one or many, many instances, I can farely safely say US is populated by morons, of course there are exceptions, but from what I have seen, they are a minority.

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by hyena
villain, if we're starting to accuse the other of coming up with counterfeit sources i might just as easily point out that the researchers you quoted had Arab names therefore they must be plotting in favor of their nations.

Actually, it was he who called my sources not substantial and stated that my facts were not facts - before I had made any comments on his sources. I just responded in kind (stupid, I know).

And, there were other than Arab names there as well.

-Villain

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by NicktheClayman
Sorry for the typo in your name VILLAIN. Is that better? No I dont think your sources are very reliable, I would trust my government which has done so much for me, than a bunch of independant researches from Iraq. Sorry that is my opinion.

I have no difficulties accepting your opinions - I just love to fight them.

Let me ask you, how is your trust based upon what your government has done to you? A typical German in 1938 could have said the very same words about the Nazi-government. You think the Nazis were telling everything to regular Germans? Well, they weren't.

However, as this is clearly "your source vs. my source" fight, I guess we can leave it at that. Still there are many other things left I want to fight about - especially the American participation in Europe in WWII.

To further educate your well-versed mind in military history - here are the German losses (note, this does not include the Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Finnish and Italian losses on the east front, which were massive) on both fronts up to 30th of November, 1944 (dunno why there aren't any numbers after that, the site is probably still under construction) taken from www.feldgrau.com/stats.html .

KIA = killed in action
MIA = missing in action
WIA = wounded in action

The west front after the French campaign and before Normandy:
KIA - 20 000 +
MIA - 1 700 +
WIA - ? (no information)

Africa campaign:
KIA - 12 808
MIA - 90 052
WIA - ?

Italian campaign:
KIA - 47 873
MIA - 97 154
WIA - 163 600

The west front from D-Day til 11.30.44:
KIA - 66 266
MIA - 338 933
WIA - 399 860

This limited info gives us a total of
KIA - 146 947
MIA - 527 839
WIA - 563 460
confirmed German losses on theaters that included Americans. Now, if we account 50% of them for the Yanks (which is probably an exaggeration, considering that the British & co. were doing most of the work anyway), we get a total of 619 123 Germans removed from fighting by Americans.

Now, the eastern front from 1941 til 11.30.44:
KIA - 1 419 728
MIA - 997 056
WIA - 3 498 060

That is a total of 5 914 844 Germans removed from fighting by the Soviets - nearly ten times more than we attributed for the Americans! Also note that all the best German units with the best equipment were fighting (and killed) on the eastern front.

And this was NOT counting the hundreds of thousands of Romanian, Hungarian, etc. soldiers that died in the hands of the Soviets.

Do you still claim we are not speaking german because of you Americans?

-Villain

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Originally posted by Salamurhaaja


Had this been the only incident, no, but seeing as this is just one or many, many instances, I can farely safely say US is populated by morons, of course there are exceptions, but from what I have seen, they are a minority.

I'm not certain you know EXACTLY what this says, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Please reconsider and either recant or revise your statement so that it's less idiotic.

If you 100% understand what you've written, then fuck you. You're dead to me.

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by rahvin
and i wasn't referring to your generalization as in "all americans follow bush", but as in "all americans following bush are enemies of mankind". so the parallel with nazis and soviets doesn't really apply, since - correct me if i'm wrong - you do think each and everyone who would agree on an attack against iraq is evil.

Hmm, not in that scale. I say that each and every one who supports an American attack against any possible target on earth (except against Americans themselves) is evil - for me the US government is the biggest evil on earth (I'll get to the reasons some other day - I'm far too tired already and I have to drive 600 km tomorrow) and supporting any of their military actions in the current era is an action against anything I see as good in the world.

Now, I find Saddam Hussein evil as well - just a far smaller evil in any scale. Were there a true "world-police" that could attack against Saddam and topple his government, I would be very willing to support it. However, there are none. I support (in spirit, not with money or anything, although I could do that if it were possible) the Kurd-terrorists that fight against Hussein and his regime (those same Kurds, btw, fight against the NATO-country Turkey as well). Supporting the USA in this matter would just once again help them avoid all international laws and make it easier for them to attack any country on earth that does not do exactly like they say.

Now, regarding this whole "choosing the lesser evil" -issue you came up with, what on earth forces us to choose either one? The fact that "if you are not on our side, you are against us"? If there were only those two options remaining, I would refuse to choose either one.

Luckily, there are still other alternatives available (but not for long, I'm afraid). No matter how much I despise many things in the European Union, I can't but hope that one day the EU will topple the US as the number 1 world power and crush the fascist American militarists - while remaining even somewhat pure to its ideals of honesty, caring and equality (those very same ideals the USA as a country lost over fifty years ago).

-Villain

 

[Ormir]

This very topic is probably the only one I can't discuss in a civilized way - due to my immense hatred against Americans (as a nation, not as individuals) and everything they represent: greed, hypocrisy, oppression and the justice of the strongest.

I hate Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, China, Pakistan, Jordania, Iraq, Iran, North-Korea, Algeria, Russia, Italy, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Congo, Zimbabwe, South-Africa, Columbia, Nicaragua, Mexico, Israel, Palestine, Liberia, Sierra-Leone, Ghana, India, Serbia, Montenegro, Estonia, Ruanda and Uzbekistan MORE than the USA. Compared to those countrys, it is doing pretty well.

It's a silly thing to condemn a nation on a stupid president and general ignorance (which is completely subjective). USA is among the most enlightened, civilized and free countrys in the world. This is a fact. Anyone who denys it should take a list of world nations, and compare the USA to Africa, Asia, South America and Eastern Europe. This is a rational, reasonable conclusion. Not one coloured by idiotic biases.

Do you still claim we are not speaking german because of you Americans?

We would be speaking Russian. Although claiming American's saved Europe from German's is ridiculous. The good they did was saving us from the Soviets.

 

[Villain]

Originally posted by Ormir
I hate Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, China, Pakistan, Jordania, Iraq, Iran, North-Korea, Algeria, Russia, Italy, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Congo, Zimbabwe, South-Africa, Columbia, Nicaragua, Mexico, Israel, Palestine, Liberia, Sierra-Leone, Ghana, India, Serbia, Montenegro, Estonia, Ruanda and Uzbekistan MORE than the USA. Compared to those countrys, it is doing pretty well.

Pretty well in oppressing the whole world, I'd say. How many of the countries you mentioned have purposedly killed millions of people during the past fifty years and got away with it? Don't say Russia, because the Soviet Union fell already. China, I'd say. And yes, they are on the rank four on my "all-time-most-evil-countries-in-the-history-of-mankind" -list, right after the top-three of Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union and the USA.

The thing is: the other criminals get punished - the Americans not. The only punishment they have got for their huge crimes was dealt to them about a year ago - and even that was aimed wrong.

-Villain

 

[hyena]

@Ormir: I object to your hating Italy - how come we're there in the list of human rights violators? It's also questionable that you should include Israel (since I have no record of HRVs on their part) and Palestine (since it's not a country, which leads to the funny conclusion that Israel is at war with *itself*). But Italy? Hey, lighten up, we're OECD, we adhere to all possible treaties on human rights, and we definitely are not involved in any territorial war with anyone.

hyena

 

[hyena]

@villain: EU=caring and equality? come on. although i'm very pro-union and i hope to serve one day in a common government of the european continent (but don't i ever laugh in my face for thinking such stuff?), i would not say that the political principles governing most of its nations revolve around caring and equality. heck, the old world's culture does not know much about caring - simple fact: see how we don't have kids, compared to the Americans who tend to do - and does not care much about, of all things, equality - again, personal income inequality in the US is lower than in Spain or the UK as of now, not to mention the lack of social mobility that affect Europe far more than the States.

European dream: yes, I'm buying. Presumption of superiority of our culture? No way. Not *at the moment*, which also explains why we're not superpower number one.

Ormir, thou shalt not comment on that because your country is asocial.

hyena

 

[Ormir]

@hyena: I saw document on the Mafia on Wendesday. The biggest company in Italy is Fiat. The Mafia's gross production is twice as big. The Mafia accounts for 15% of the Italian GDP... Sorry if I'm being overly negative, but it painted a pretty bleak picture of Italy. It's probably not that bad in the north.

@Villain: It's pointless arguing with a fanatic. I hope you realise how ridiculous your opinions are ten years from now.

 

[HarmonyDies....]

I agree with Ormir on this one, USA is a very civilised and cannot be constantly persecuted because of it's retarded president. I think everyone just hates America because they are the most Powerful country and the world, and will say anything to make them look evil.