the election, and stuff..

[KoichCPA]

Steve says: Well, the same people are there... the same people that screwed up under Hawke/Keating but on top of it, you have a bunch of idiots and losers running the party. Latham + Garrett? Now that is a JOKE. Really, hown can anyone take them seriously.

Stop mentioning Garrett. He is running for a safe seat and has no impact on the party as a whole.

If they were to run the country, they'd run it into the ground so badly that in 10-20 years, we won't have a budget to support pensioners for our growing population, let alone the youth.

I didn't realise you had a time machine Steve. You have no proof of this, stop spouting out shit you don't know.

We need to continue to stimulate business, to keep the economy growing. \

Obviously not the sugarcane industry though, we can be fucked up the arse by america for all you care, right steve?

Then the Government gets desparate, starts taking from the rich, making it 'publicly owned', spending continues, the economy stops and surprise, surprise, a moderate left wing party becomes Socialist and so it goes on...
Prices drop, the economy drops so wages drop, people head abroad and the Government becomes desparate and starts handing positions out to Party/Union members and friends whilst the truly need REALLY begin to suffer. Poverty is WORSE in the majority of left wing countries. That is a FACT.

OK, it may not go that far here in Australia, by why head in that direction at all when we can avoid it.

At least you admit you exagerate here. Poverty is worse when you have to live with it for years. Studying fulltime and working fulltime in a shitty job to support yourself. It was liberal who introduced the centrelink scheme I am talking about, not labor.

Steve says: No, it's never a bad idea but I like to read between the lines. Under the Liberal Government, I have literally assisted 2 Australian Metal bands get grants. I applied for a grant long ago under the ALP, by being declined that's how I basically started the concept of Metal Warriors. The idea was to get together all the well known OZ bands, do a song together as a tribute to Metal and make a Tribute to Metal doco. I got outdone by a photographer that wanted to take pics of the Yahtzee River in China from different perspectives and different parts of China. The person gets twice as much as what I asked for...

That is more of a statement of the mainstream's view of art, which by the way, has changed.

teve says: Maybe... maybe but check out the unholy alliance that is forming not only behind the scenes but before our eyes. Regardless, anything left is doomed for failure...

yes, damn the greens and their humantarian stance, even still, god forbid we protect our environment. These things and wrong and should be stopped with all our power

What about the unholy alliance of Nationals and Liberal? I mean what is worse than a bunch of stuck up rich people? A bunch of stuck up rich people with racist farmers in tow.

 

[KoichCPA]

the last one you have me on, I got nothing

 

[KoichCPA]

Basically, I'll sum up my viewpoint here.

First and foremost,I am an environmentalist and I am a humanitarian. Liberal has fucked both of these massively. I want to give labor a chance at trying this, in all honesty if I thought it would be worth it I would vote greens. I will try a moderate left party before I try fully left party, just to test the waters. I want a change, the way I see it, I can't have another 4 years of Liberal legeslation governing immigration, refugees and the environment. I mean think about it steve, chances are if you family wanted to gain visa's here now you would be denied.

This is why I have trouble understanding your support for a bunch of xenophobic, right wing US sympathisers.

You mentioned the climate of terrorism, hey guess what, we probably wouldn't have been attacked if it wasn't for us blindly following bush on his little campaign. Oh and East Timor, by the way, was a UN inititive, not a liberal inititive.

 

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Stop mentioning Garrett. He is running for a safe seat and has no impact on the party as a whole.

Steve says: Safe seat or not, he's attracting the lefties/Socialists as a whole.

(Koich): I didn't realise you had a time machine Steve. You have no proof of this, stop spouting out shit you don't know.

Steve says: I don't need a time machine. It's happened throughout history. Get back to me when the West collapses so that you can say, see Steve... you were wrong... Until then, history has proven me right...


(Koich) Obviously not the sugarcane industry though, we can be fucked up the arse by america for all you care, right steve?

Steve says: The deal with The States has benefited this country as a whole. We could have went without it but not even Labor was prepared to want to stop it. Australia needs it friends like The States.

(Koich) At least you admit you exagerate here. Poverty is worse when you have to live with it for years. Studying fulltime and working fulltime in a shitty job to support yourself. It was liberal who introduced the centrelink scheme I am talking about, not labor.

Steve says: The same policies were around back in the 80's/early 90's. Like I said, until my parents almost got killed and went into the pension, I was not entitled to Austudy.

(Koich) yes, damn the greens and their humantarian stance, even still, god forbid we protect our environment. These things and wrong and should be stopped with all our power

Steve says: If that's all the Greens were about, I would not care but they get involved in a lot more... and worry about the environment less. Why should Brown incriminate the Australian Soldier in Iraq or get involved in Economics or health. A Medicare that would cover sex change operations? He's about left wing Socialism and not just saving trees and he's got Garrett in the ALP whose now best buddies with Latham whose pretending to be best buddies with Beazley. Talk about sleeping with the enemy...

(Koich) What about the unholy alliance of Nationals and Liberal? I mean what is worse than a bunch of stuck up rich people? A bunch of stuck up rich people with racist farmers in tow.

Steve says: Ain't no stuck up rich person here... I get my phone disconnected coz I can't pay the bills on many occasions but atleast I get the opportunity to try. The Libs encourage me to. The ALP made it bloody hard for me to get started... My children won't go hugry under The Libs.

According to Latham, my family will be worse off $400 plus a year under his government, but better off by $22 a week. Ummmm? Which is it?

......... Capitalism motivates the people to have a part in running the country. Selling Public Assetts a bad thing? Ummm.... No, as long as the new owners are Governed by laws to protect the people.

Government ownership is Socialism. In the USSR and co. the public supposedly owned everything... and where did that take it? Failure acroos the board. Capitalism has not failed yet. The Western World from The USA to Germany to Japan is still running strong...

Koich, you don't know poverty until you live in a country where the costs are sometimes higher then what they are in Australia and you just get paid $400 a month, not a week and in some cases as bad as a $100 a month working in a Government job. That's poverty! No health benefits and no welfare coz the economy is dead. That's poverty...

We have it really well here and we should be grateful for everything. If you can afford to sit in front of a computer writing all night, then I don't think you got it too bad at all. This is a lucky country and I appreciate it.

As long as the laws imposed on the owners protect the people, private ownership offers people the opportunity to partake in the progess of the country rather then the Government. The more the Government owns, the bigger the dictatorship. Then we have less choice, no competition and crappy service. I've lived in such places. When business compete's, there are benefits for all...

Hey, bands fly Interstate these days instead of driving... competition in business provides the customer with options. Long live FREEDOM and CAPITALISM!

Cheers
Steve

 

[KoichCPA]

I never mentioned me being an economic supporter of socialism.

I know this country is great, I love this country, I'll be damned if I can sit by and let the government stop other people from moving here and loving it too.

 

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Basically, I'll sum up my viewpoint here.

First and foremost,I am an environmentalist and I am a humanitarian. Liberal has fucked both of these massively. I want to give labor a chance at trying this, in all honesty if I thought it would be worth it I would vote greens. I will try a moderate left party before I try fully left party, just to test the waters. I want a change, the way I see it, I can't have another 4 years of Liberal legeslation governing immigration, refugees and the environment. I mean think about it steve, chances are if you family wanted to gain visa's here now you would be denied.

This is why I have trouble understanding your support for a bunch of xenophobic, right wing US sympathisers.

You mentioned the climate of terrorism, hey guess what, we probably wouldn't have been attacked if it wasn't for us blindly following bush on his little campaign. Oh and East Timor, by the way, was a UN inititive, not a liberal inititive.

Steve says: I'm not saying that I totally agree with the Immigration policy... but the ALP policy is complete rubbish and they don't even have a real policy. They just make it up as they go. Labor tried to fuck me on the Immigration thing too... Fact is, we can't give everyone free entry. If everyone brought their relo's, it would screw the economy.

The Libs lead the way with East Timor. They did a good job with it...

Facts are facts though...
- Annual Federal funding for the environment is 1.1 Billion. Under Labor it was 379 million.
- Annual health spending is $35 Billion and with Labor it was 17 Billion.
- Support for first home buyers was NIL and with the Libs it is $7,000 and even $14,000 at one stage... So, you may say that you pay 10% more coz of the GST anyway, well... Interest rates are about 7% and with Labor they were 12%. Calculate that and we're talking TENS of thousands for the average home owner under the Labor Govt.
- And for families..... I get three times more now then what I did under Labor. Sure, it's been a while and inflation can make these figures look a little better, but if you balance out the inflation with the figures, we're still twice as better off.
AND the economy is BETTER then anywhere else in the World and we don't have a foreign dept.

That's good and it should be kept that way...

So what does Labor propose... I hand full of policies that can't be funded coz it's already showing that their figures are wrong... typical...

Cheers
Steve

 

[KoichCPA]

Also Steve, you seem to be confused about what being leftist means.

You can be left and not be a communist, just as you can be right and be nazi

 

[KoichCPA]

Also a side note.

I just discovered the correct term for me. Before I was just placed on the left due to certain beliefs.

Radical Middle Politics

The political application of radical middle philosophy is represented by acluster of loosely related terms and movements: radical middle, radical centrist, communitarian, third-way, etc. As a relatively grass-roots movement, especially in the United States, there is no definitive statement of radical middle politics. However the following represent some common issues, and the key issues of certain Radical Centrist organizations:
Maximize citizen choice and individual empowerment (such as through civil rights and referendums)
Maximize everyone's potential
Be of genuine help to those in the developing world
Be realistic, acknowledging absolute truth, relative knowledge, and complex value
Build character by promoting conscious moral choices
Expand community by people creating value for each other in reciprocal relationships
Possess a foundation of traditional values and Common sense
Rational environmentalism, called the productive middle, usually based around the concept of enlibra

 

[MetalWarriorSteve]

I never mentioned me being an economic supporter of socialism.

I know this country is great, I love this country, I'll be damned if I can sit by and let the government stop other people from moving here and loving it too.

Steve says: Sure you never, but that's what Labor is about. Was not pointing at you, but them... There has to be a limit as to how many people can enter. We need to be able to afford it.

I'm not rascist, but under Labor 80% of immigrants were from Asia (namely Vietnam) and the majority unskilled and now on benefits. That is a fact.

Immigration should be spread evenly. For every Asian, there should be a European, American, African etc. and these people should be skilled unless they are political refugees. They should be granted residence but through appropriate channels.

That's my position... I'm sure most Australians, even yourself would agree that is fair...

Labor policy is dumb. I'd rather tough (even though I don't always agree) then dumb and dangerous.

PS. That's my spill. I hope Australian's lookout for the best interests of Australia this week.

Cheers
Steve

 

[KoichCPA]

Steve says: I'm not saying that I totally agree with the Immigration policy... but the ALP policy is complete rubbish and they don't even have a real policy.

http://www.alp.org.au/policy/otherkeypolicies/immigration.php

. Fact is, we can't give everyone free entry. If everyone brought their relo's, it would screw the economy.

/QUOTE]

And what system should we judge people wanting to enter the country? If the nationals had their way, you wouldn't be here, you aren't white enough.

The Libs lead the way with East Timor. They did a good job with it...

No, the UN led the way, as I stated earlier.

Facts are facts though...
- Annual Federal funding for the environment is 1.1 Billion. Under Labor it was 379 million.

You know what the libs do with this massive increase in funding? they open more offices and put you through more beurocratric bullshit to do it. You know what I spent the weekend doing steve? I was shooting feral dogs. why? Because the federal government won't put enough shooters on in the kosciosko national park to curb the problem. So we had to sit on the edge of the park and shoot any that walked out. It doesn't matter that they are decimating native animals and livestock. As long as a few guys in canberra don't lose their jobs it's ok. The farmers up there are absolutely fucked, no water, no feed for their stock, this all equates to, no food for themselves. Sure the government bails them out, but it's a bandaid solution.

- Annual health spending is $35 Billion and with Labor it was 17 Billion.
- Support for first home buyers was NIL and with the Libs it is $7,000 and even $14,000 at one stage... So, you may say that you pay 10% more coz of the GST anyway, well... Interest rates are about 7% and with Labor they were 12%. Calculate that and we're talking TENS of thousands for the average home owner under the Labor Govt.
- And for families..... I get three times more now then what I did under Labor. Sure, it's been a while and inflation can make these figures look a little better, but if you balance out the inflation with the figures, we're still twice as better off.
AND the economy is BETTER then anywhere else in the World and we don't have a foreign dept.

That's good and it should be kept that way...

So what does Labor propose... I hand full of policies that can't be funded coz it's already showing that their figures are wrong... typical...

Cheers
Steve

I will leave these ones for Brian, he is more qualified than me on these.

 

[KoichCPA]

Steve says: Sure you never, but that's what Labor is about. Was not pointing at you, but them... There has to be a limit as to how many people can enter. We need to be able to afford it.

I'm not rascist, but under Labor 80% of immigrants were from Asia (namely Vietnam) and the majority unskilled and now on benefits. That is a fact.

Accordingly to your mighty capitalism, we need unskilled labour.

 

[KoichCPA]

Steve says: Sure you never, but that's what Labor is about. Was not pointing at you, but them... There has to be a limit as to how many people can enter. We need to be able to afford it.

I'm not rascist, but under Labor 80% of immigrants were from Asia (namely Vietnam) and the majority unskilled and now on benefits. That is a fact.

Accordingly to your mighty capitalism, we need unskilled labour.

 

[MetalWarriorSteve]

Also a side note.

I just discovered the correct term for me. Before I was just placed on the left due to certain beliefs.

Steve says: There you go... I know my politics though. Anything heading left is heading Socialist when it comes to economy.

Where as with Nacism, it's as right as it is left because it is Nationalist Socialism. In theory, if an Australian read the meaning of Nazi without hearing the word 'Nazi', they would probably think it's a good idea. Hey, a lotta ppl supported Nazi Germany until Hitler lost the plot...
Now a Facsist is completely different and has no political association with Nacism really either. It's more extreme.

I'm a fan of neither and I'm not a fan of the left either.

I'm central with a leaning towards the right especially when it comes to the economy and freedom of speech issues and I hate political correctness and with Labor, political correctness will become even more prominent. That's another reason why I despise Labor.

Cheers
Steve

 

[KoichCPA]

You obviously don't know your politics steve, nor your history. Hitler called his party National Socialists in order to appeal to both sides.

 

[KoichCPA]

I'm central with a leaning towards the right especially when it comes to the economy and freedom of speech issues and I hate political correctness and with Labor, political correctness will become even more prominent. That's another reason why I despise Labor.

Also, the further right you go, the further your speech will be stifled. same as, the further left you go, the further your speech will be stifled. This last point is completely invalid.

 

[Mark]

And I always thought Koich was a dumb tosser.

 

[KoichCPA]

I am.

 

[KoichCPA]

Also, I need sleep, I will reply later.

thankyou for an interesting debate steve.

 

[Spiff]

Spiff says: You're a tool, Steve. If I actually bought any of your releases I'd boycott Metal Warriors, and if I actually bothered going to see any of the bands you brought out I'd stay at home and watch TV instead.

No, wait, I bought Dungeon's A Rise to Power and their DVD. Or, should I say, the Steve Ravic DVD featuring Dungeon, because your mug is on it so often I got confused and almost took it back to the shop because I thought I'd picked up the wrong thing.

 

[spawn]

Isnt that going a bit far just because you disagree with someone idealogically Spiffo?