The great innovators of Metal

[mutantllama]

87 isn't late.....a tad early even. lol It's looking back actually that makes them a must. Extreme metal would not have evolved the way it did had Death not been progressive. Atheist was not, it was a single idea, same with MA Cynic.....etc etc.

Atheist were the first band to infuse death metal with jazzy sounding riffs. Also, they were one of the first technical death metal bands.

 

[Vacant_Planets]

Atheist were the first band to infuse death metal with jazzy sounding riffs. Also, they were one of the first technical death metal bands.

I realize that I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about progression in extreme metal.

 

[(((0)))]

Atsuo Mizuno

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Okay guys, I'm trying to get the main list caught up to all the discussion that took place here earlier in the year. I've added Pantera and Exhorder to the list since their contributions are easy to describe, and I'm getting ready to add the 2 or 3 '80s prog metal guys that were discussed earlier.

I've also created a new section at the bottom of the list called "Other candidates for the list who need more discussion", just so I can keep track of all the noteworthy bands that get mentioned but don't have a well-written entry for them yet.

Once again, if you want a band to be added to the list, please explain clearly and objectively how they were original and/or innovative.

On the list it has Fhtagn-nagh Yog-Sothoth by Thergothon as the first funeral doom album but that release was a demo.

Sorry for missing this earlier dude, I removed the word "album".

 

[CF87]

EoS and Opeth sound nothing alike. I don't feel like getting into it.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I've renamed the "Non-metal influences" list to "Innovators closely related to metal" after realising that there are simply too many non-metal influences on metal to bother including in this list. Using "closely related" as our measuring stick allows us to narrow the scope of discussion to bands who are at least part metal in some way, which is much less of a headache.

Fates Warning, Queensryche and Watchtower are all on the list now.

And here's my current list of "candidates that need more discussion" in case anyone wants to tackle any of these in more detail or add additional bands:

Blue Cheer (proto-metal, 1968)
Candlemass (epic doom metal, 1986)
Cirith Ungol (US-style power metal, 1980)
Dream Death (death-doom, 1987)
Faith No More (alternative/nu/funk metal, 1985)
Helloween (European-style power metal, 1985)
Iron Butterfly (proto-metal, 1968)
Isis (post-metal, 2002)
Led Zeppelin (proto-metal, 1969)
Legend (epic metal, 1979)
Manilla Road (US-style power metal, 1980)
Mercyful Fate (black metal, 1983)
Meshuggah (tech death - song structure, 1995)
Motörhead (speed metal, 1979)
Mr. Bungle (alternative/nu metal, 1986)
Paradise Lost (death-doom, 1989)
Rainbow (influence on US-style power metal, 1975)
Venom (black metal & influence on thrash, 1981)

 

[CF87]

Isis are post-hardcore(atmospheric hardcore) they're not a metal band
Meshuggah are post-thrash.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

ELO was the first to put into a rock format like that and you know it.

Pretty sure you meant Emerson, Lake, and Palmer and not Electric Light Orchestra. Of course, this is still wrong, because metal is blues based and not rock based. So, if you want to go back that far, the correct answer is Bob Thiele (as George Douglas) and George David Weiss, who with the vocals of Louis Armstrong recorded "What a Wonderful World" back in 1968, using a symphonic compliment.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Nope, you're both wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_Future_Passed

 

[mutantllama]

Venom needs to be on the list.

 

[IntoPhagist]

I realize I said something dumb but Legend? They aren't Iron Maiden Sorry.

 

[Eligos]

Looking at this thread made me realize how much this forum sucks now, and I cried little e-tears.

Does anyone post on any forums that are as active as this one used to be?

 

[Badbird]

Looking at this thread made me realize how much this forum sucks now, and I cried little e-tears.

Does anyone post on any forums that are as active as this one used to be?

Well I hope you don't leave this thread and if you want any other forums than All Metal Forum or Metal Throne.Anyway back on topic put Napalm Death for Grindcore on your list vihris-gari.

 

[mutantllama]

I realize I said something dumb but Legend? They aren't Iron Maiden Sorry.

They've contributed just as much.
Sorry.

 

[Badbird]

They've contributed just as much.
Sorry.

They have influence a lot of extreme metal so they belong on that list.

 

[Eligos]

Well I hope you don't leave this thread and if you want any other forums than All Metal Forum or Metal Throne.Anyway back on topic put Napalm Death for Grindcore on your list vihris-gari.

He already put Napalm Death on the list, Mike.

 

[musicevangelist]

Of course, this is still wrong, because metal is blues based and not rock based.

Just to throw it out there and all but rock is blues based too. Look at some of the early rock ('n' roll) bands/artists like:

Chuck Berry
The Rolling Stones
Cream
Hendrix
Zeppelin

Even the Beatles had some blues influences mixed in their sound.

 

[Badbird]

Without the Blues there would be no rock which leads to no metal.

 

[RedFox742]

Helloween is pretty much a must, given that power-metal guitarists and vocalists have been imitating Hansen and Kiske since 1987.

Incidentally, AllMusic puts it well:

Alongside Switzerland's Celtic Frost and Sweden's Bathory, Germany's Helloween were possibly the most influential heavy metal band to come out of Europe during the 1980s. By taking the hard riffing and minor key melodies handed down from metal masters like Judas Priest and Iron Maiden, then infusing them with the speed and energy introduced by the burgeoning thrash metal movement, Helloween crystallized the sonic ingredients of what is now known as power metal.

I'd argue that Stratovarius also played a significant part in power-metal influence, but if you have to pick one, it's clearly Helloween.

I'll come back and make my cases for Rainbow, Cirith Ungol, and Manilla Road later, although suffice to say there would be no Iced Earth or related bands without those guys.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Blue Cheer (proto-metal, 1968)
Candlemass (epic doom metal, 1986)
Cirith Ungol (US-style power metal, 1980)
Dream Death (death-doom, 1987)
Faith No More (alternative/nu/funk metal, 1985)
Helloween (European-style power metal, 1985)
Iron Butterfly (proto-metal, 1968)
Isis (post-metal, 2002)
Led Zeppelin (proto-metal, 1969)
Legend (epic metal, 1979)
Manilla Road (US-style power metal, 1980)
Mercyful Fate (black metal, 1983)
Meshuggah (tech death - song structure, 1995)
Motörhead (speed metal, 1979)
Mr. Bungle (alternative/nu metal, 1986)
Paradise Lost (death-doom, 1989)
Rainbow (influence on US-style power metal, 1975)
Venom (black metal & influence on thrash, 1981)

How is Venom not on the list yet? All early extreme metal spawned from them. Bathory, Death, Slayer, you name it, the Venom influence is obvious. And honestly, I think that Black Metal is just as much a thrash metal album as Kill 'Em All is.

I'm not too sure about Dream Death. Journey Into Mystery is a great album, but it's nowhere near the Winter-esque tempos that doom/death is associated with, and really isn't a death metal album at all. It's more like a thrashier/Slayer-y To Mega Therion.

Mercyful Fate wasn't the first band with Satanic lyrics and musically there is little that crossed over from them to the second wave. Obviously an important, unique, influential, and awesome band, but as far as "The first to do x" goes, I'm not sure that they qualify. Their songs on the first two are considerably less verse/chorus/verse/chorus than other metal at the time, and if The Spectre Within (which is pretty MF-influenced itself) counts as a progressive metal album, so should those.

EDIT: Oh, and I have to question something...

Metallica
* Broke the mold of fantasy and glam attitudes in metal by writing music with a sincere and introspective focus.

Eh? Is this because of Fade to Black? Metal has had a sincere and introspective focus since Sabbath and Priest.