The great innovators of Metal

[False Joe]

You know who else were innovators?

Mayhem. I mean they like played music, and their lead singer shot himself.

 

[DrFleming]

Helloween for European power metal (Keeper of the Seven Keys, Part I).
Also, GUT for pornogrind, I guess.

 

[Hypnos]

i still miss bands like Tiamat, Paradise Lost and In The Woods on that list

 

[Alter]

You know who else were innovators?

Mayhem. I mean they like played music, and their lead singer shot himself.

That was a stupid post.


REPULSION

ask Fenriz why...

 

[ohiogrinder]

Repulsion kicks ass

them and Siege were pretty much the beginning of grindcore

 

[False Joe]

That was a stupid post.

I enjoy being sarcastic, and the post about Megadeth inspired me.

 

[death metal black metal]

King Diamond!

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Wikipedia has a really interesting breakdown of power metal and its influences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_metal

I'd never really thought of it in terms of those subgenres, but they make a lot of sense.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I guess it's about time to give this thread some more time in the light. I'd forgotten just how long ago I made this...

Considering how many new knowledgeable members we have now, I think there's a lot of potential for contributions to the list in the OP. Omni was actually the one who got me thinking about it again with our little debate in the "10 Greatest Artists" thread over the comparative innovativeness of Metallica, Judas Priest, Slayer and so forth. Maybe she can put a few more ideas into this.

I just updated the entries for the three aforementioned bands with what seemed to be the highlights of our discussion. If anyone has any more changes, post them up and I'll try to keep the list updated.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

With regards to the female vocals thing, do you mean female vocals in the opera-backing way? Because Bitch, Hellion, and Warlock all predate Celtic Frost and are female-fronted.

EDIT: And Watchtower needs mention as the first progressive metal band.

EDIT #2: Judas Priest was not NWOBHM, and saying that their innovation was that they "Created a raw and fast guitar tone previously unheard in metal" does them a disservice. Traditional/speed/power metal, for one thing, was basically entirely their baby. Just look at the number of bands from the early 80's [that were once] named Tyrant.

 

[youdontknowme]

Repulsion kicks ass

them and Siege were pretty much the beginning of grindcore

I still stand by this post. and Gut are definitely worth a mention.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

With regards to the female vocals thing, do you mean female vocals in the opera-backing way? Because Bitch, Hellion, and Warlock all predate Celtic Frost and are female-fronted.

As far as I recall, most people were under the impression that Celtic Frost were the first metal band with any sort of female vocals.

I haven't listened to any of those bands, so could you give some details on what might distinguish them from each other in terms of their use of female vocals? From my brief glance at Wikipedia, it looks like Bitch were the first to do it. Did any of them do the kind of operatic-style vocals that Celtic Frost experimented with?

I still stand by this post. and Gut are definitely worth a mention.

How about a reason why they're worth a mention?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

As far as I recall, most people were under the impression that Celtic Frost were the first metal band with any sort of female vocals.

I haven't listened to any of those bands, so could you give some details on what might distinguish them from each other in terms of their use of female vocals? From my brief glance at Wikipedia, it looks like Bitch were the first to do it. Did any of them do the kind of operatic-style vocals that Celtic Frost experimented with?

No, it's basically a woman singing Motorhead worship. Come to think of it, they also need mention for being the first metal band to incorporate faux-orgasming in their song Live for the Whip.

EDIT: Sorry, that's Bitch. Hellion is not much different IIRC, while Warlock is basically WASP with a vagina. A slightly less masculine Blackie Lawless, even.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

EDIT: And Watchtower needs mention as the first progressive metal band.

Yeah, there definitely need to be some prog entries on the list. I was under the impression that Fates Warning and Queensryche more or less "created" prog metal though.

I'd say Dream Theater also needs a mention for diversifying prog metal, adding a wider variety of instrumentation to it, and basically being the most directly influential band in prog metal as it exists today.

EDIT #2: Judas Priest was not NWOBHM, and saying that their innovation was that they "Created a raw and fast guitar tone previously unheard in metal" does them a disservice. Traditional/speed/power metal, for one thing, was basically entirely their baby. Just look at the number of bands from the early 80's [that were once] named Tyrant.

I didn't say they were NWOBHM, but that they were a defining band for it.

Also, I don't see how the phrase I used is a disservice to them. The raw/fast guitar tone is pretty much the entire link to speed and power metal as far as I can see. I should probably mention that they helped create those genres though.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Btw, I need to get to bed now, so I'm gonna hold off on further updates until tomorrow.

If any of you want something added, please come up with a nice, concisely-written entry like the ones already in the list, and I can stick it in tomorrow.

You can also of course bug the mods about updating the list for me if I happen to go AWOL for too long.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yeah, there definitely need to be some prog entries on the list. I was under the impression that Fates Warning and Queensryche more or less "created" prog metal though.

I'd say Dream Theater also needs a mention for diversifying prog metal, adding a wider variety of instrumentation to it, and basically being the most directly influential band in prog metal as it exists today.

Fates Warning was still Maiden worship in 1985, which is when Watchtower released their debut, and that album was finished in 1984. Queensryche's The Warning certainly isn't as technical as Watchtower either, although the symphonic elements to No Sanctuary and others did show progression.

Also, I don't see how the phrase I used is a disservice to them. The raw/fast guitar tone is pretty much the entire link to speed and power metal as far as I can see. I should probably mention that they helped create those genres though.

Guitar playing and guitar tone are not synonymous. Their tone on songs like Tyrant, Dissident Aggressor, and Saints in Hell was still pretty 70's-ish and thin. The riffs, on the other hand, wouldn't have been out of place on Kill 'Em All or Show No Mercy.

 

[no country for old wainds]

hold on a minute: fates warning were not fucking iron maiden worship in 1985. iron maiden influenced, yes, but jesus.

 

[no country for old wainds]

why do people always equate innovation with influence by the way? where do, say, demilich fit into that kind of equation?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

hold on a minute: fates warning were not fucking iron maiden worship in 1985. iron maiden influenced, yes, but jesus.

Don't get me wrong; it's my favorite Fates Warning album and there are definitely ideas on it that go beyond what Iron Maiden ever has done, but it's still very Maiden-ish. Galloping abounds, the song-writing isn't nearly as progressive as it would be a year later, and The Apparition is a Rime of the Ancient Mariner clone.

If any of you want something added, please come up with a nice, concisely-written entry like the ones already in the list, and I can stick it in tomorrow.

Candlemass
* The first epic doom metal band. (Epicus Doomicus Metallicus; 1986)

Confessor
* The first technical doom metal band, or the first technical groove/thrash band, or both. (Condemned, 1991)

Legend
* The first epic traditional metal band (From the Fjords, 1979)

Trouble
* The first band with Christian lyrics. (Demos, 1982; Psalm 9, 1984)
(I'd add something about their crushing thrash-slowed-to-doom tempo riffs and tone as well, but someone else can explain that better than me)
(Maybe something about incorporating stoner/rock into doom as well in 1990 with their S/T)
(This dude's review brings up the point that they were very retro as well)

Watchtower
* The first tech/prog metal band. (Energetic Disassembly, 1985)

 

[Vilden]

How about Strid for creating the depressive black metal sub-genre (with the help of Burzum).