THE OFFICIAL DREAM THEATER DISCUSSION THREAD

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what ownage? the guy in the suit talking elementary business tactics over here? you can see it from the $$$ perspective or you can see it from the social/arts perspective. i still think it's a complete riot that those of you in the former camp are so typically bent on 'winning'. it doesn't change the fact that this is DT the business and not DT the band.
 
Kenneth R. said:
what ownage? the guy in the suit talking elementary business tactics over here? you can see it from the $$$ perspective or you can see it from the social/arts perspective. i still think it's a complete riot that those of you in the former camp are so typically bent on 'winning'. it doesn't change the fact that this is DT the business and not DT the band.
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Actually, Im wearing jeans and a t shirt. :)

I kind of like to see things from both perspectives, actually, because both the artistic and business perspectives are crucial to being successful. The artistic perspective because, well thats what the music is, and the business perspective so that you don't get shat on and might stand a chance of earning a living doing what you love.

Lets quote Neil Peart:

"What you own is your own kingdom
What you do is your own glory
What you love is your own power
What you live is your own story
In your head is the answer
Let it guide you along
Let your heart be the anchor
And the beat of your own song

You don't get something for nothing
You can't have freedom for free
You won't get wise
With the sleep still in your eyes
No matter what your dreams might be"

I highly suggest anyone looking to do anything involving music professionally to pick up a book called "All you Need to Know about the Music Business" by Donald S. Passman. It is the ultimate resource of how the music business actually works.

BTW Kenneth, I like the "Red Star" avatar description. It fits you pretty well :D.
 
I must say that Matt and Ken both make sense, but from different aspects. What I really wanted to say is that this forum must have the biggest bunch of brown nosers ever...
 
Originally Posted by Kenneth R.
the 'love it or leave it' attitude tali is sporting just screams to me of passivist politics. it's very heads-in-the-sand, there is no problem rather than confronting an issue. a non-position.
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Well i don't see the "problem"....the band has something on offer and you can CHOOSE whether or not you want to pay extra money to get the extra "perks". I'd choose not to pay that money myself....thats my position...but i don't have the head-up-my-arse notion that DT aren't part of a business, that they support themselves and their families with money made perdominantly from concert and merch sales...they'll soon find out if the VIP ticket thing works or doesn't.
Maybe you should draw them up a pro bono business model Kenneth...or maybe an entry by donation...or people could judge the shows $ worth after they have seen it and pay accordingly.
 
Nocturnal Swede said:
I must say that Matt and Ken both make sense, but from different aspects. What I really wanted to say is that this forum must have the biggest bunch of brown nosers ever...
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Ain't that the fucken truth. Just wait until there's a shit song on the new Symx album... everyone's gonna say "HOLY FUCK THAT SONG RULES!!!"

hell, people defend fucking Shades of Grey here. 'Nuff said.
 
DoomsdayZach said:
Ain't that the fucken truth. Just wait until there's a shit song on the new Symx album... everyone's gonna say "HOLY FUCK THAT SONG RULES!!!"

hell, people defend fucking Shades of Grey here. 'Nuff said.
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I don't know why my heart keeps calling but I really don't want you to stay
I have my reasons to keep from falling, then cast me into Shades of Graaay
 
Because the songs are solid and well written. The only songs that I actually don't like on it are Rapture or Pain and Taunting the Notorious.

Is there a piece of equipment I could buy somewhere to edit out the vocal track on any cd? Because if I had something like that, I'd be listening to the s/t album 24/7
 
I don't want to get too involved in this conversation, but to say that the guys in DT don't care about music anymore, and just want to make money is total crap. I've never seen someone as devoted to music as much as Mike Portnoy, or any of the other members.

I've never gotten a VIP ticket. Do I think they are expensive......yes. Do I think they are worth the money.......yes. And why would they be just for the "richest" fans?? I am not rich at all, but I would work my ass off to save up the money for the tickets if I wanted to. So you shouldn't assume that the people buying the VIP tickets are just rich, maybe they worked their ass off for a year, because they are so devoted to the band.

Plus, DT has been selling packages like this for a whole bunch of years now, so how come all of a sudden "they just wanna make money"?? Last I remember, a Platinum Package cost $250, and this year it will be $300. To me that's not that big of a difference, and if fans are going to get a better show out of it, and spend the extra $50, why the hell not?!?




Or.............just buy a regular ticket. That's what I've been doing for 7 years, and that's what I'll continue to do. It's as easy as that.
 
that previous package is just as offensive.

the whole idea of a special price with benefits is offensive to me. I am by no means strapped for cash, however the principle of the action is what I am debating. I seem to be debating with businessmen rather than music fans. Make the most money possible, that's the capitalist way! But is it always the best? Further, is it in opposition to the heart of live music? Yes

And just so you don't construe this as me hating on a particular group, because my debate has nothing to do with Dream Theater in particular: A certain venue Starland in NJ charges a special fee so that people can park in the front, and get in early. They even advertise this feature by stating the implications: you show up late, and yet you're still ahead in line of all the people who'd been standing outside for hours in their dedication. This is completely offensive. It's good business, but poor ethics, and poor support for music.

Want another example? Ever been to a gig where FYE was there and demanded that in order to get an album signed, you had to BUY one from THEM and wait in their line?

My bottom line has been and still is KEEP EXTERNAL BUSINESS OUT and keep the music pumping. There's a clear difference between music-related, necessary business which I understand, and external non-music related business that's sneaking in to leech off of and take advantage of the situation. Only as much business as is necessary should be involved, ie ensuring the band gets the money from merch, the venue gets paid, the label gets paid, etc, but all of this external capitalizing on the situation... all of that is unnecessary and offensive.
 
Kenneth R. said:
that previous package is just as offensive.

the whole idea of a special price with benefits is offensive to me. I am by no means strapped for cash, however the principle of the action is what I am debating. I seem to be debating with businessmen rather than music fans. Make the most money possible, that's the capitalist way! But is it always the best? Further, is it in opposition to the heart of live music? Yes
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I totally understand what you mean, I just view it a different way. I went to the Radio City Music Hall show in NY, and I waited after the show till Mike and Jordan came out, and it was almost 2 in the morning. Then it was too late for the trains, so we had to sleep in Penn Station, and wait till 6am to get a train.

I'd never do that again to meet the guys for 30 seconds. So, if I had the money, I'd buy the package if I wanted to meet them.
 
How about looking at the matter from a different perspective, Kenneth. Let's say you're a huge fan who wants to meet the band. So you sit outside the dressing rooms for two hours after the show and hear they've already left the venue. Your two hours was wasted and you are pissed you didn't get to see them.

Or another angle - you wait in line for an autograph. And you wait and wait and wait because people are allowing all their "buddies" to cut in line in front of you. Again, after two hours, the band has to get on the road to make their next gig and you do not get to meet them or get the autograph you really prize.

Now, you have the opportunity to pay for a guarantee to meet the band. If you're into that kind of thing, I bet it sounds like a great deal given the two scenarios above (and any other you may have gone through in the past that has kept you from meeting your idol).

Some will see this as a great thing. Others will see it as a rip off. I think it's cool, but not for me. Heck, back in the '80's, if you wanted to get an autograph, you had to find a hot chick willing to make a "deal" with the roadies to get backstage for you to get an autograph. And even then, depending on the shadiness of your courier, you may never get the autograph back, and you most definitely didn't get to meet the band. Unless you knew a DJ who could say you "won" a prize package on the radio...
 
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