The 'Opeth Effect'

Dhatura said:
A LOT of writers do that. What's poetry all about? Ehh, I just don't really believe the transcendental power of language. A lot of times I guess "great thoughts" in a poem are coincidental, what's more, a lot of times people read something into it definitely not intended by the author (One Last Goodbye is a good example). Concentrating on the technicalities IS poetry, otherwise it'd be fiction. And it's even more important in writing lyrics, finding the right rhythm and number of syllables, etc.

I didn't mention Shakespeare to boast him, it was just a well-known example to point out that we can still relate to old stuff cause the topics are the same. True, he's overrated, compared to other playwrights, but a lot of literature was written cause the author was financially supported, that's how he could write. But if I see a good film version of his plays (like Much Ado or Romeo+Juliet) I can still do nothing but admire his talents. Regardless of all British colonial conditioning.

You're beginning to sound like my professors, and naturally that's a good sign that you're right. But if you reduce poetry to technicalities, it does not interest me, might as well be doing crossword puzzles. The whole Shakespeare svada wasn't really aimed at you though, I thought our exchange to be at a comic distance.
 
It's all written in the stars already, and sometimes you can see the bits behind the mirrors and crows and it gets scary...
 
Strangelight: Ah, damn...I apologize for that (now, I didn't realize it was about his mother...I see where those powerful words/thoughts had come from...) I wouldn't consider One Last Goodbye to be cliche, but in terms of some of those love songs out there...ah, I'm letting this go...


Allan: Your'e correct...but, it IS different, sure. But, you know what I'm tired of? When people try to poke fun of certain bands for some awkward reason, when they really don't deserve it...that's what grabbed my attention from the beginning (seems to me like it wasn't really a big deal to begin with, though). And as far as the Shakespeare thing, fine...it is your opinion, that's fine. I just don't agree with you...


Oh, and yeah...I happen to like BOTH. There are too many great bands out there that I'll probably, possibly, never hear...I gotta dig deep and find stuff on my own (like others here I'm sure do).
 
no worries boss, I thought you said you knew what it was about or so.. anyway, you must know what I mean by real life songs as opposed to fictional stuff or just nice words written down that rhyme.
As for Shakespear, I heard it was really a woman...
 
one last goodbye is among the best tracks i've ever heard in my life...BUT if one did not know who it is dedicated to and that it's actually about someone dying, then it might sound cliché or cheesy to one (most people in turkey dont know it was written for mrs. cavanagh).
 
Can't see how anyone could think of "One last goodbye" as cheesy or cliche, think it's beautifully accurate in song and lyrics. No empty words.
 
The 'Opeth' effect as I put it referred to ...

The domino effect that occurs in the music consuming public when a band or artists name becomes established as a mark of quality through word of mouth.

This could have been called the OASIS effect or the ROLLING STONES effect but I chose Opeth because it is more apt to the users of this forum.

I wasnt referring to the quality of Opeths music I was referring to SOME Opeth fans (not ALL so please dont reply with a 'but I genuinely DO like Opeth' post).

I refer to people who usually wouldnt like something but are weak minded enough to convince themselves that they do like something because everyone else says its good. (check out my original post - soundmaster changes his mind after two other poele tell him antimatter is good) Now this kind of thing happens everywhere and if anyone disagrees then they need to wake up.
 
i hate the anti-Opeth effect too. convincing yourself you like something altho you hate it but its so cool saying you like it.
 
the boy moss steps in and sorts the mess out!!

another interesting phenomenon which is a syptom of the op**h effect. lets say it '96/'97. A certain swedish band are signed to a tiny label...like emmm candlelight. they play proggy folky death. they're rather good, even tho lyrically its a non event. Nobody buys their records and they're broke but they keep working away to no avail. Now fast forward to 2001, a certain "legendary" metal label sign this band, and zomba get on board too. They're still playing proggy folky death. But now its selling by the bucketload and the media are telling the kids that they're geniuses....and the kids are telling each other its genius..oddly enough they only thing thats changed since 96/97 is the money that been pumped into the band. this is the dopeth effect kiddies and its been around since the tin pan alley days. they were good in 96 and they're good now but im not gonna apologise for being cynical about ppl who worship them all of sudden especially for their less than inspired (or even coherent) lyrics
 
Allan said:
You're beginning to sound like my professors, and naturally that's a good sign that you're right. But if you reduce poetry to technicalities, it does not interest me, might as well be doing crossword puzzles. The whole Shakespeare svada wasn't really aimed at you though, I thought our exchange to be at a comic distance.

firstly, most of the great works of art were created under patronage of sponsors. Claiming shakey was a sell out becasue he created works to order just shows you've misunderstood the historical context by tryin g to judge him by modern standards of artistic independance and "selling out"(which doesnt exist generally, Opeth are being sponsored by MFN to do what they do just like shakespeare was. in fact they probably have less freedom he does). You probably just dont like him cos he said denmark was smelly. Or something like that :lol:

the whole poetry thing is just a matter of taste, if proper poetry is like doing a crossword then modern poetry to me is like doing a cross word on a blank page...pointlessly easy. I've always had more time for poets who could express themsleves though form and ingenuity rather than ones who just threw sentences together that had no relevance to anyone but themsleves. A bit Like playing tennis with the net down to quite one person. I mean if the japanese could write some of the most abstract poetry ever and still keep to a formula that made it more powerful why the fuck cant this lot??
cos its easier to throw shite together and then have some big critic label it "art" and watch everyone clap and say "how clever" while you rake in the dosh. The opeth effect again :lol:
*cranky bastard*
 
Bambi said:
firstly, most of the great works of art were created under patronage of sponsors. Claiming shakey was a sell out becasue he created works to order just shows you've misunderstood the historical context by tryin g to judge him by modern standards of artistic independance and "selling out"(which doesnt exist generally, Opeth are being sponsored by MFN to do what they do just like shakespeare was. in fact they probably have less freedom he does). You probably just dont like him cos he said denmark was smelly. Or something like that :lol:

the whole poetry thing is just a matter of taste, if proper poetry is like doing a crossword then modern poetry to me is like doing a cross word on a blank page...pointlessly easy. I've always had more time for poets who could express themsleves though form and ingenuity rather than ones who just threw sentences together that had no relevance to anyone but themsleves. A bit Like playing tennis with the net down to quite one person. I mean if the japanese could write some of the most abstract poetry ever and still keep to a formula that made it more powerful why the fuck cant this lot??
cos its easier to throw shite together and then have some big critic label it "art" and watch everyone clap and say "how clever" while you rake in the dosh. The opeth effect again :lol:
*cranky bastard*

I never said I didn't like him. I said he was overrated an literally a sellout. What bothers me about the latter was that his sponsors told him what the poem/play should mean/say/be about. Don't think record labels do that!

I actually agree with your thoughts on poetry, although I find them a bit unspecific. I was pushing the point a bit, naturality technicalities of poetry are necessary for it to be poetry, but still I find that meaning should come first (ex "just another casualty of casual insanity").

You have brought out the cranky bastard in me.

And by the way, I don't know much about Opeth, bought my first albums a month ago, haven't really made up my mind about them. Been listening to other stuff, somehow got the impression you thought I was an Opeth fan, which I by the way might be one day, "Damnation" has made a good first impression on me.
 
Allan said:
I never said I didn't like him. I said he was overrated an literally a sellout. What bothers me about the latter was that his sponsors told him what the poem/play should mean/say/be about. Don't think record labels do that!

you must be kidding right?
 
Did I say something about hating to dislike or like a band before I knew them? Guess I got it by accident.

And I suppose all you people are strong minded enough to say you are never influenced by other people's opinion?

And that is a good thing?

Actually I agree with the point to some degree, just don't like the I'm above this attitude.
 
Now I feel like I took drugs even though I didn't, and I don't know whether to be pleased about it or not