^ Basically. Nothing wrong or "irresponsible" about lighting up a joint every month or two just for the fuck of it. When it starts developing into abuse, or a habit, then yeah, that's irresponsible but there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a toke every so often, and if it's that big of a deal to you, I think that's just... overzealous.
The Whining and Bitching Thread
- Thread starter waif
- Start date
-CC-
Something in My Eye
- Jan 12, 2009
- 3,967
- 799
- 113
Dodens two posts are just ridiculous showcases of a man who will not admit defeat. Do you always present a case and try your best to defend it no matter how reasonable the other persons argument may be? Or are you just that much of a white knight and actually believe all that shit you just said?
SentinelSlain
Suck my joined date.
- Nov 21, 2007
- 10,015
- 153
- 63
I can't log into the part of my university website that hosts a load of files I need to download. I don't even know when I'm supposed to collect a marked essay because of this. Balls.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
I never expected that the phrase "drug use is irresponsible" could ever possibly actually come under fire. The act is so inherently irresponsible to me that I tend to suspect that people arguing against it are afraid to admit that they sometimes behave irresponsibly, as though everybody in the world does not at times behave irresponsibly. I'm not a "white knight" and that is just a meaningless term used as a placeholder for an actual argument to attack those who choose not to behave in a selfish and decadent manner. If you thought drug use was irresponsible, would you abstain from it? I somehow doubt that. That it's irresponsible is merely my personal reason from not doing it. That and I don't like the taste of alcohol or cigarettes or the idea of willfully ceding control of my cognitive faculties. I don't care what people do as long as it doesn't interfere with anybody that doesn't want to be involved.
JontRevolting
FALSE ARREST! FALSE ARREST!
The fact that humans have such different opinions about drug use I find interesting and weird.It obviously comes down to personal belief and perhaps upbringing.I will whole heartedly admit to drug use being irresponsible but has not the wild carefree,fearless nature of youth ever found you wondering about certain substances? Alot of young people,myself included give in to such wild fantasies and often it's the submission to it that is far more significant and potent than the drug itself.I will never forget for instance the first occassion a needle entered my arm as an intoxicant,the wild rush of crossing moral boundaries and the drug itself was nothing more than an affirmation.I guess it just depends on how far one is prepared to go in life,I am very grateful for these experiences.But nobody should ever condone or encourage this,such is personal choice and will.
cookiecutter
Proceed to Ultraslamming
Hmmm, I was just trolling somebody who I thought would be easy to bug (I was right), but this turned into a full-fledged discussion. I guess I'll add my two cents so I'm not just the jackass at the beginning of the discussion.
Of course drug use is irresponsible. I thought that was part of the appeal. Nobody is responsible all the time and if that's the way you want to act out, so be it. Personally, I enjoy drinking alcohol on occasion but the rest of the drug world is not for me. Pot is just so lame (the culture that is) and makes people slightly shittier than they would be otherwise. Whenever my friends smoke, its like they have summoned a slightly worse version of themselves for a couple hours. I don't have much experience with harder drugs but frankly I'm glad for that.
Before all the pot smokers get up in arms, let me assure you that this is not a moral judgment. I am not looking down on you. I'm just going on my personal experiences of being around high people. I'm a little concerned that my judgment of people really bothers some people on this board, although admittedly I was trolling. If you want to get high, I hope you do without worrying about what cookiecutter on the Ultimate Metal Forum thinks about it.
Of course drug use is irresponsible. I thought that was part of the appeal. Nobody is responsible all the time and if that's the way you want to act out, so be it. Personally, I enjoy drinking alcohol on occasion but the rest of the drug world is not for me. Pot is just so lame (the culture that is) and makes people slightly shittier than they would be otherwise. Whenever my friends smoke, its like they have summoned a slightly worse version of themselves for a couple hours. I don't have much experience with harder drugs but frankly I'm glad for that.
Before all the pot smokers get up in arms, let me assure you that this is not a moral judgment. I am not looking down on you. I'm just going on my personal experiences of being around high people. I'm a little concerned that my judgment of people really bothers some people on this board, although admittedly I was trolling. If you want to get high, I hope you do without worrying about what cookiecutter on the Ultimate Metal Forum thinks about it.
Blind Guardian
Member
My grandparents were head figures in the local temperance movement, and I guess I have inherited some of their values because I agree a lot with Dodens Grav and Cookiecutter here. And I agree on the pot culture, from my (small) experience of being around pot smokers, the only thing that happens is that they become more stupid and anti-social, and this has made me recoil from everything associated with it.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Several layers of criticism have already been stripped away in these posts, so let's summarize so we know what we're dealing with:
"Legality is irrelevant"
This is good, because I'm sure we can all agree that just because the "law" constitutes something does not mean it is in any way best or even rational. Laws begin to function ideologically when people begin to think that there is somehow an inherent, universal truth behind the law. However, this isn't happening here since legality isn't an issue.
"This is not a moral judgment"
Also good, because it's asinine to try and argue that there is an inherent moral flaw in drug use. I'm sure everyone agrees on this as well.
"Irresponsible"
This is where the crux of the argument is, and it's the most interesting part; irresponsible for whom? Certainly for the user; that goes without saying. Dodens mentions that smoking in one's room isn't "smoking responsibly;" but I contend that it is certainly more responsible than those who smoke on their drive to work. Thus, people can be responsible toward others while being irresponsible toward their own bodies.
Smoking might be an unhealthy act, but so is eating poorly and not exercising. Plenty of pot smokers eat very well (there are tons of vegan pot smokers), and many also exercise. Instead of labeling smoking as an "unhealthy" habit (since plenty of people who don't smoke are far less healthy than people who do), let's label it a "risky" habit. Now, risky habits also include skydiving and mountain climbing, acts that pose no danger to others, but do to the subjects themselves; these acts are also healthy (especially mountain climbing, which is a form of exercise). That doesn't mean that risk is not involved; so, are people who engage in these types of activities also irresponsible? Health insurance companies think so.
Now, the central component of the argument is whether or not it's okay for parents to manage their teenagers' money. I have two questions: 1) do they know you've taken drugs (i.e. bought drugs with your money)? 2) how did you earn this money?
If they don't know you've done drugs and are just managing your money because they fear you might act responsibly, that's reprehensible. Institutions reserve no right to intervene simply because they assume someone might act irresponsibly. Now, if they caught you smoking or know you do, managing your money might be an act of trying to protect their own assets (i.e. the money/time they've invested in you thus far); ergo, I can't really blame them for doing so.
JontRevolting
FALSE ARREST! FALSE ARREST!
Who gives a fuck if anyone is a drunk or does drugs,it's not up to anyone else to pass judgement.As for me I do both,own a very nice house and lots of goodies,if anyone tells me how to live I will tell them to go and fuck themselves.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
Interesting discussion.
Certainly; I've spoken on a number of occasions on this forum about the absurdity of drug laws and the nature of the legitimacy of law, so I was surprised this was even brought up.
Indeed, I never intended to speak from a perspective of morality, or at least not pop-culture morality.
Naturally, it's more responsible, or more accurately less irresponsible to take precautions in order to prevent their own actions from affecting others. I will continue to argue however that recreational drug use by its very nature is irresponsible at the very least to the self, although it sounds like you do not disagree with that.
While I think that it's fair to bring up other aspects of lifestyle, I would say that it is difficult to find a truly symmetric comparison; for example, eating unhealthy foods still provides the body with nourishment and sustenance, while not exercising is not actually an "act", but rather the lack of an act, so at best it is in this sense passively irresponsible. I would also make a distinction between acts that run the risk of physical bodily injury like skydiving and internal organ damage like smoking as separate categories of irresponsible behavior, although both are worth discussing in some forum, if not this one. Certainly there are a plethora of acts or non-acts that we perform every day that are irresponsible to some degree.
Not to speak for him, but I do seem to recall that his parents are aware that he has done drugs, and I also recall that he has had some psychological issues in the past, as well as an at times strained relationship with his parents, the fault of which rested with both parties. If his parents suspected that he would use the money to buy drugs, then I don't really have a problem with it as long as he remains under their guardianship and are responsible for him.
Certainly; I've spoken on a number of occasions on this forum about the absurdity of drug laws and the nature of the legitimacy of law, so I was surprised this was even brought up.
Indeed, I never intended to speak from a perspective of morality, or at least not pop-culture morality.
Naturally, it's more responsible, or more accurately less irresponsible to take precautions in order to prevent their own actions from affecting others. I will continue to argue however that recreational drug use by its very nature is irresponsible at the very least to the self, although it sounds like you do not disagree with that.
While I think that it's fair to bring up other aspects of lifestyle, I would say that it is difficult to find a truly symmetric comparison; for example, eating unhealthy foods still provides the body with nourishment and sustenance, while not exercising is not actually an "act", but rather the lack of an act, so at best it is in this sense passively irresponsible. I would also make a distinction between acts that run the risk of physical bodily injury like skydiving and internal organ damage like smoking as separate categories of irresponsible behavior, although both are worth discussing in some forum, if not this one. Certainly there are a plethora of acts or non-acts that we perform every day that are irresponsible to some degree.
Not to speak for him, but I do seem to recall that his parents are aware that he has done drugs, and I also recall that he has had some psychological issues in the past, as well as an at times strained relationship with his parents, the fault of which rested with both parties. If his parents suspected that he would use the money to buy drugs, then I don't really have a problem with it as long as he remains under their guardianship and are responsible for him.
Vimana
Member
- Mar 2, 2007
- 11,671
- 20
- 38
For the record, I don't associate with the pot culture or consider myself a stoner. I hung out with stoners a couple times, and needless to say, the only fun part was messing with them, but that was far outweighed by the stupid shit they did like crossing the street while texting.
JontRevolting
FALSE ARREST! FALSE ARREST!
Pot's probably the most retard drug,I wish I could wake up everyday and have a nice shot of speed.Now there is a drug that should be available to every living person,Hitler and Lemmy knew the deal.Fuck meth,just nice pure,clean amphetamine,there is nothing better in this entire world and perfectly conducive to a happy healthy normal life,uless one has a weak heart that is.
Itunes media player is lame. For whatever reason, the audio sounds terrible. I made sure no EQ was even on but everything just sounds like mud. Also, after playing probably two songs, it automatically adjusted the tags for a couple of albums and replaced the artwork I gave them, with lower quality artwork. 
I'll just stick with foobar...
I'll just stick with foobar...
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Vimana
Member
- Mar 2, 2007
- 11,671
- 20
- 38
Well, it actually can badly affect driving. As with most hallucinogens, the effects are more varied depending on the user's personality, the situation, etc. Some people just zone out and have horrible reaction time, and as a result drive really slowly. Some people get really impatient and drive recklessly, and some get really into it and drive normally.
mutantllama
Active Member
Guys marijuana is bad for you, my best friend died from HIV that he got from a pot needle. He was a typical kid, then everything changed around his senior year in high school. His grades dropped and every time I wanted to do something he always said "Sorry I have other things I need to do". So one time I asked if I could go along and he said sure. We then went to one of his friends houses, and the first thing I noticed what that no one was home a few other kids. One of them said "did you bring it?". I asked "bring what"? "The weed needle, duh!" He then pulled it out and gave it to the other kid and he started to inject it in his arm. He then passed it to me, and I said "Uh, I gotta go". My friend then said "where you going man, come on, try it, don't be a little girl". Smoke started to come out of his arm as he pulled out the needle, this all happened when he was saying it. I then stopped hanging out with him because he started to become a junkie and eventually dropped out of school. I lost contact with him, and then one day heard that he died from AIDS. I went to his funeral, not because of what he became but what he was.
