The Whining and Bitching Thread

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Dak, to prevent further horror and suffering.

 

[Dak]

As far as that one person goes, whether they take out everyone or just themselves, it's all the same to them. So, just bite the barrel.

 

[The Butt]

I'd nuke the planet. No interviews, no listening to begging and pleas. No mercy.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

As far as that one person goes, whether they take out everyone or just themselves, it's all the same to them. So, just bite the barrel.

Yeah, I hear ya. As long as their world ends that's all that matters but that's not really what I'm talking about.

Here's a quote from this dude Ligotti I've been reading thanks to True Detective writer Nic Pizzolatto that might help explain what I mean...

“Also worthy of mention is a clique among the suicidal for whom the meaning of their act is a darker thing. Frustrated as perpetrators of an all-inclusive extermination, they would kill themselves only because killing it all is closed off to them. They hate having been delivered into a world only to be told, by and by, “This way to the abattoir, Ladies and Gentlemen.” They despise the conspiracy of Lies for Life almost as much as they despise themselves for being a party to it. If they could unmake the world by pushing a button, they would do so without a second thought. There is no satisfaction in a lonesome suicide. The phenomenon of “suicide euphoria” aside, there is only fear, bitterness, or depression beforehand, then the troublesomeness of the method, and nothingness afterward. But to push that button, to depopulate this earth and arrest its rotation as well—what satisfaction, as of a job prettily done. This would be for the good of all, for even those who know nothing about the conspiracy against the human race are among its injured parties.”

― Thomas Ligotti

 

[Dak]

Some serious projection and delusion going on there, and not because of suicidal ideations. Suicidal ideations are a normal response pattern to certain stimuli. Projecting that need onto everyone is problematic.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Believe it or not I see that perspective also.

but let me throw one more at ya - I extend this idea to all beings capable of suffering, not just humans.

“Perhaps the greatest strike against philosophical pessimism is that its only theme is human suffering. This is the last item on the list of our species’ obsessions and detracts from everything that matters to us, such as the Good, the Beautiful, and a Sparking Clean Toilet Bowl. For the pessimist, everything considered in isolation from human suffering or any cognition that does not have as its motive the origins, nature, and elimination of human suffering is at base recreational, whether it takes the form of conceptual probing or physical action in the world—for example, delving into game theory or traveling in outer space, respectively. And by “human suffering,” the pessimist is not thinking of particular sufferings and their relief, but of suffering itself. Remedies may be discovered for certain diseases and sociopolitical barbarities may be amended. But those are only stopgaps. Human suffering will remain insoluble as long as human beings exist. The one truly effective solution for suffering is that spoken of in Zapffe’s “Last Messiah.” It may not be a welcome solution for a stopgap world, but it would forever put an end to suffering, should we ever care to do so. The pessimist’s credo, or one of them, is that nonexistence never hurt anyone and existence hurts everyone. Although our selves may be illusory creations of consciousness, our pain is nonetheless real.”

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

Believe it or not I see that perspective also.

but let me throw one more at ya - I extend this idea to all beings capable of suffering, not just humans.

“Perhaps the greatest strike against philosophical pessimism is that its only theme is human suffering. This is the last item on the list of our species’ obsessions and detracts from everything that matters to us, such as the Good, the Beautiful, and a Sparking Clean Toilet Bowl. For the pessimist, everything considered in isolation from human suffering or any cognition that does not have as its motive the origins, nature, and elimination of human suffering is at base recreational, whether it takes the form of conceptual probing or physical action in the world—for example, delving into game theory or traveling in outer space, respectively. And by “human suffering,” the pessimist is not thinking of particular sufferings and their relief, but of suffering itself. Remedies may be discovered for certain diseases and sociopolitical barbarities may be amended. But those are only stopgaps. Human suffering will remain insoluble as long as human beings exist. The one truly effective solution for suffering is that spoken of in Zapffe’s “Last Messiah.” It may not be a welcome solution for a stopgap world, but it would forever put an end to suffering, should we ever care to do so. The pessimist’s credo, or one of them, is that nonexistence never hurt anyone and existence hurts everyone. Although our selves may be illusory creations of consciousness, our pain is nonetheless real.”

Not to intentionally steer away from the topic...but I gotta ask, what do you folks think of anti-natalism?

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

To be quite blunt I do think it's a mistake to bring a life into this world and extremely vain. But strictly biologically speaking it is what we are, no meaning other than the meaning we give it, it can be a "why."

 

[Dak]

nonexistence never hurt anyone and existence hurts everyone

Nonexistence never pleasured anyone either, and existence pleasures everyone at least once somehow. Weak argument.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Tell that to the countless children born into slavery starving to death or the poor fuck that works in some smartphone manufactures factory that jumps off the roof because conditions are so horrible etc. Ask these people if they believe that the good or luxuries in life outweigh the evil or hardships.

 

[Dak]

Tell that to the countless children born into slavery starving to death or the poor fuck that works in some smartphone manufactures factory that jumps off the roof because conditions are so horrible etc. Ask these people if they believe that the good or luxuries in life outweigh the evil or hardships.

I didn't make any sort of categorical "outweigh" statement. But the guy jumping off the Foxconn building isn't blowing up the earth upon leaping or landing. Additionally, the guy jumping off the Foxconn building has unwittingly assisted in some part to making things better for those who did not. Oh irony. Nevermind that suicide to escape from (potentially) temporary drudgery isn't in the same league as the guy dropping a grenade in his foxhole to avoid being taken by swarming "savages".

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Are you such a biased Utilitarian that you refuse to see that if every person on earth were to fall asleep forever that it would result in the discontinuation of millions of people/beings enduring immeasurable suffering?

 

[Dak]

Are you such a biased Utilitarian that you refuse to see that if every person on earth were to fall asleep forever that it would result in the discontinuation of millions of people enduring immeasurable suffering?

Um, I thought the death of billions was the telos of utilitarianism.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Um, no. It's just a cold result in which it has no control.

Just answer the question, let me rephrase it - Do you refuse to see that if every person on earth were to fall asleep forever that it would result in the discontinuation of millions of people enduring immeasurable suffering?

 

[Einherjar86]

Some serious projection and delusion going on there, and not because of suicidal ideations. Suicidal ideations are a normal response pattern to certain stimuli. Projecting that need onto everyone is problematic.

You know when Nick Land talks about horrorism? This is it. You're trying to psychologize something beyond the conscious human mind. There's no projection or delusion going on in Ligotti; only the approximation of a death that conditions and informs all the processes of life itself.

You often say that to abandon "the human" is suicide. Ligotti's text is an affirmation that this has, in a sense, already occurred.

 

[Dak]

Do you refuse to see that if every person on earth were to fall asleep forever that it would result in the discontinuation of millions of people enduring immeasurable suffering?

If everyone fell asleep, we can assume out of that everyone, some were suffering and would thus be spared. Yes. So?

You know when Nick Land talks about horrorism? This is it. You're trying to psychologize something beyond the conscious human mind. There's no projection or delusion going on in Ligotti; only the approximation of a death that conditions and informs all the processes of life itself.

You often say that to abandon "the human" is suicide. Ligotti's text is an affirmation that this has, in a sense, already occurred.

Horror is a psychological, subjective response. The beyond is not the response. An individual text can't do for one, much less all.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

If everyone fell asleep, we can assume out of that everyone, some were suffering and would thus be spared. Yes. So?

So no immense suffering is significantly better than some immense suffering. This, in my opinion, is the pessimist ideal.

 

[Einherjar86]

Horror is a psychological, subjective response. The beyond is not the response. An individual text can't do for one, much less all.

It can if all subjective responses of horror coalesce into an objective, or real, confirmation of the horrific object. Just because horror may originate in a subjective response does not mean it can't emerge at a higher, complex level as something objectively real.

Human thought, at its most radically liminal, will always find itself on the brink of horror; this is unconditional.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

To get the whining and bitching on track...

So fuckin sick of people assuming I'm one of those assholes who ONLY listens to metal. As someone who enjoys a great variety of music, someone who is capable of offering recommendations to pretty much anybody, no matter their preference, I take serious offense to it. I am a MUSIC fan. I just happen to, for instance, be on a METAL website because it is the bulk of my preferences.

Time for some non-metal murder music. That fuckin cunt. Listening to the most mainstream bands of every genre doesn't make you well-listened, it makes you a pretentious cunt, especially if you're gonna talk to me like that.

 

[-CC-]

I go from reading about STN's financial woes that might leave him homeless and most definitely vehicle-less, to reading about someone assuming Carpe only listens to metal. This thread certainly has its peaks and valleys.