The Whining and Bitching Thread

[Dak]

I got all that. But if the villains are selfish and the ones who create progress do it in selfless ways (inventions that benefit everyone), how is that sending the message that selfishness is the drive of human progress?

What was this popular perception and why was it incorrect?

That business CEOs etc are greedy bastards and that bureaucrats, politicians, nonprofit CEOs/workers, "community and civic leaders" are selfless givers.

I wouldn't say business CEOs can't be greedy bastards, but it's not by virtue of their job. Conversely, the nature of the occupation makes the other group selfish.

Again, the question wasn't whether or not some people think this way or not. It was whether no suffering via nonexistence was better than some suffering and joy via existence, but as usual you just turn the conversation the way you want it to go, play a semantics game and change the subject randomly.

Ah well the condescension as usual is fitting. It's somehow fair though as I think it goes both ways. I mean I wouldn't hesitate to say that some people might see your perspective in the same way, perhaps some on this forum.

The difference would be I wouldn't try to "help them to death".

Everyone turns conversations in different directions. That's like attacking someone for "believing they are right about everything". Everyone believes they are right about everything at any given time - otherwise they'd believe differently.

 

[monoxide_child]

wow
people are still talking about Ayn Rand

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

As someone who has been suicidal and attempted suicide multiple times, I think this quote is full of shit. Just because you are in a dark place and you view the world as perpetual suffering and a path to a slaughterhouse, you can't say that that's reality and everyone else is just blind and needs your illumination. Emotions are not facts, but subjective interpretations of facts.

Why are you assuming it's based off emotions? It's actually completely based on objective reality. Have you looked around this motherfucker (world)? Do you read world news? Millions of beings enduring brutal experiences; throughout history, now and in the future. It's not subjective, it's quite factual.

Also that analogy with the deer was awful and I just can't.

I feel sorry for those who see the world as dark and horrible, especially since I've been in that place and tried to escape it by taking my own life, but I can't even put into words how horrible I find it to want to kill others, especially when one thinks they're doing others a favor. Yes, life has suffering. It's not like people who aren't depressed forget that fact. It's that people who are depressed forget that life has joy. It has more for some than for others, but that does not mean that joy is some illusion and suffering is reality. Both joy and suffering are reality and some get more of one than the other, and depending on the person, it's also about how one looks at life and acts that determines which they get more of.

Nobody is talking about joy as an illusion and suffering as the only reality. You're misinterpreting. All that's being said is that nonexistence, eternal sleep for all guarantees and embraces peace in nothingness, with no joy and no suffering; this outweighs existence and its chaos - joys and sufferings.

 

[Einherjar86]

Horror is an objective fact, not a subjective experience. It does not correspond to any specific object, but inheres in the very formal relationship between consciousness and the world.

That is all.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

The difference would be I wouldn't try to "help them to death".

Yeah, I would have a hard time pushing the button as well but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider it. However if I knew earth was going to be completely wiped out by an asteroid/ meteor or whatever next week I'd be relieved and quite satisfied.

Everyone turns conversations in different directions. That's like attacking someone for "believing they are right about everything". Everyone believes they are right about everything at any given time - otherwise they'd believe differently.

This says a lot about you. You don't just turn conversations you go off road and dismantle things that aren't being said. And no, not everyone believes they are right about everything at any given time, certainly you do, but some of us go into convos questioning our own thoughts before and during. Youre kind of an absolutist.

 

[Dak]

Yeah, I would have a hard time pushing the button as well but that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider it. However if I knew earth was going to be completely wiped out by an asteroid/ meteor or whatever next week I'd be relieved and quite satisfied.

Why? Why isn't it just enough to pursue your own telos?

This says a lot about you. You don't just turn conversations you go off road and dismantle things that aren't being said. And no, not everyone believes they are right about everything at any given time, certainly you do, but some of us go into convos questioning our own thoughts before and during. Youre kind of an absolutist.

Because for everything that is said there are umpteen different implicit statements and assumptions, and addressing those is just as if not more important.

As far as the being right thing, tell me something you are wrong about. Believing you are right about something is not the same thing as being dogmatic about it.

 

[Vimana]

Why are you assuming it's based off emotions?

Because feelings are reactions to facts, not facts in themselves. For example, chocolate tastes good because humans have a sweet tooth, but it doesn't taste good to animals that don't. It's a fact that chocolate tastes good to humans, but not a fact that chocolate tastes good in general since other animals taste and do not all think chocolate tastes good.

It's actually completely based on objective reality. Have you looked around this motherfucker (world)? Do you read world news? Millions of beings enduring brutal experiences; throughout history, now and in the future. It's not subjective, it's quite factual.

Yes, I watch the news. I know that suffering is a part of existence. I don't think everyone would be fine with the idea of ending all of their experiences just to get rid of suffering since it would also get rid of joy. Your personal preference is not the same as an objective fact. Your emotional reaction comes from objective reality, but it's all just shit happening in your brain. It's not the reality itself.

Also that analogy with the deer was awful and I just can't.

Why is it awful?

Nobody is talking about joy as an illusion and suffering as the only reality. You're misinterpreting. All that's being said is that nonexistence, eternal sleep for all guarantees and embraces peace in nothingness, with no joy and no suffering; this outweighs existence and its chaos - joys and sufferings.

For you and others who think like you. Others, like me, are fine with living in a world with pain, disease, and death (even though they would like to find an end to them) because it comes with all of the experiences they enjoy. I think consciousness is the most amazing thing and the thought of it not existing is totally shitty for me, even though I know that were it not to exist, I would not experience how shitty it would be for me. However, I know I am conscious now, and that's why I would never even think about pressing that button.

I think the fact that existence exists is miraculous and I would never want to give that up.

The reality is that people suffer and experience joy. It's also that not everyone would prefer eternal nothingness to a reality with joy and suffering.

Let those who truly want "peace in nothingness" kill themselves and only themselves.

 

[Einherjar86]

The businessmen are popularly considered as selfish because they keep the profits. The Actual selfish people are the politicians and demagogues.

The point of the book was to show that popular perception in regards to the "public" and "private" spheres is incorrect.

You misunderstand Rand. She says that businessmen should be selfish, and that selflessness is a bad thing.

If the politicians are actually selfish, then Rand should be praising them.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Haven't read all of it but I to be honest I like reading philosophy debates. It makes me eager to get back on a spiritual/philosophical path as I feel that is what's missing in my life.

To bitch and whine: I told a coworker that I was taking off a few days in May for a festival (MDF) two months ago when I first got there just out of conversation. Other coworkers were telling me to not trust her and that she's awful, but of course I'm kind of silly and don't take heed. So I gave her my number and she would call me every single night and morning to chat. It was really annoying to me because I hate talking on the phone but then I figured I was new and having a friend is not terrible.

Well, I noticed she kept asking about when I was taking off and since I naturally get annoyed/suspicious when I have to repeat myself I was giving her aloof answers with no exact date. So then she tells me she's taking off the entire month of May, which brings alarms to me because we cannot take off the same time. And so I thought it through and saw that she was being a malicious for literally no reason as I have done nothing to her (except not give her straight forward answers since I've became suspicious of her intentions). Immediately I requested for the days off and told my other coworkers about and they nodded grimly with "I told you so" looks. Luckily, my supervisor thinks really well of me and told me she'll do whatever she can to guarantee I get those two days off because that is total bullshit.


So what do I do for stress? I text a friend to meet me in the city and spent like 80 bucks drinking (paid for both our drinks). Man, I seriously need some spirituality because that's ridiculous.

 

[Vimana]

So let me get this straight, you solved your own problem and then created a new one while dealing with the stress of the original one?

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Pretty much.

Man when you put it that way that sounds pretty damn terrible.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Printers are proof that god does not exist.

 

[The Butt]

Lotta pseudointellectualism going on in here

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

says the child fucker.

 

[Vimana]

Lotta pseudointellectualism going on in here

If you're going to identify it, why not argue against it? This is about as useless as me replying "nuh-uh."

 

[Dak]

You misunderstand Rand. She says that businessmen should be selfish, and that selflessness is a bad thing.

Yes, it is the popularly conceived selfishness that yields the ultimate benefit to society. Selflessness is not beneficial.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

I'd happily join in the conversation if it was with people that skipped out on the flowery language and got to the point. Not a fan of reading essays in every response, especially when there's been references to earlier conversations, which necessitates reading those essays as well.

But hey, some people dig that. Have fun.

I'd like to take this opportunity to whine and bitch about my tax returns taking longer than they should. In another couple days I'm allowed to officially bitch about it and see what the damn problem is.

 

[Satanstoenail]

I go from reading about STN's financial woes that might leave him homeless and most definitely vehicle-less, to reading about someone assuming Carpe only listens to metal. This thread certainly has its peaks and valleys.

Cheers for the acknowledgement sir. Fortunately it's not that bad, I'm just driving around in a battered work van with smashed things falling off it until the insurance is sorted and I can get it repaired. The insurance should also take care of all the other parties involved. I hope. It's also my first 'at fault' claim, so I'm hoping it won't affect my premium.

 

[Serjeant Grumbles]

Printers are proof that god does not exist.

 

[unknown]