Lord Foul
I don't spank men
Leaving aside the great apes, as they are close kin and could be argued to be "human enough" to be guilty of whatever it is humans are guilty of, I still would like to know how people define "innocence" in an animal.
This is what America does...
- Thread starter Liverslapper
- Start date
Dead_Lioness
Godless
You're digging a useless hole, waiting for me to reply with something "clever" so you can sit there and ask me philosophical questions for a penny...
come on Lord Foul.
neal
wizard in black
you cant argue this logically, its all about feelings. if i let my cute cuddly little kitty cat outside she will kill all birds, squirrels, opossums etc. that she comes into contact with. and its not just for food, cats kill for sport as well. is it perhaps because they dont have the 'capacity' for guilt, remorse, right and wrong etc. that they are excused and given a free pass to murder? humans have created rules of conduct that do not exist in nature that we hold to ourselves but not 'dumb animals'
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
Altitudes
Stay Frosty
Captain Beard
No longer active
- Sep 6, 2001
- 28,010
- 99
- 48
You're not white unless you lived 1000 years ago, sorry.
(In other words, it's all relative, if you want to be one, you can be.)
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
Thank you fellow Viking. Max is probably bitter about his height.
"just kidding"
Lunar Still
Doodle drawrer
Lord Foul
I don't spank men
What can possibly justify any action taken by a human (or any other creature)?
Lunar Still
Doodle drawrer
slashvanyoung
Dopefish lives!
You just can't transfer the principles and theories about morale and ethics to animals. An animal will always be "innocent". You can't expect from an animal that doesn't even recognize itself in a mirror to have control over it's instincts and drives. We, on the other hand, have this ability to a certain extend (if you're not mentally disabled).
neal
wizard in black
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
Karen is right about you and philosophical questions sir. I'm a stupid person but I'm trying my best here...
What can justify our actions is a common sense of good will and decency. This does not include torturing a defenseless animal for your own amusement, we hold ourselves to higher standards than the rest of the earths inhabitants, we should act like it.
Altitudes
Stay Frosty
OMG!@#$! You noticed nobody even cared, proving that people care more about a fuckin' animal more than humans, fake or not.
Dead_Lioness
Godless
...or any cruelty... cruelty against children, against old people, against animals... it's the same and it's all wrong.
neal your example about the cat that will go outside and kill birds just for the heck of it can be argued with the fact that it's an instinct, and since cats and dogs have been domesticated BY US HUMANS the fact that they go out and kill animals just shows their "hunting" instincts that got tamed by dominstication.
I see your point, and it's actually the best one in this thread so far, but I'd still feel bad for the bird that was killed.
Regardless: I will not be mad at the dog/ cat simply because they have no idea what they're doing: WHERE HUMANS are all about awareness. Yes we have made rules, and correct me if I'm wrong: but if you'll see a person murders another- you'll think it's wrong, no?
I come off as a PETA freak here, where really, I'm not.
I just will NEVER understand cruelty to animals- NEVER
Lunar Still
Doodle drawrer
Lord Foul
I don't spank men
Why should we hold ourselves to a higher standard than we hold other animals to, on the basis of our (arguably) greater capacity for self-control?
*and I have to be off to the train station but I shall return*
Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
Because we as humans can overcome those instincts that a cute cat would have when it went out into the yard and killed a squirrel. We have a greater mental capacity, that's why.
slashvanyoung
Dopefish lives!
Well, that's where we're hitting philosophical ground.
It's like asking: Imagine you are in bunker and the enemy draws nearer. Suddenly a baby starts to cry and if it doesn't stop, they will be found and killed (everybody). So the only way to stop the baby from crying would be to to choke it. What would you do? And would it make a difference if it's your own baby or not?
There's simply no definite answer to those questions.
