Thoughts on NSBM

[Henrik Main]

I see your point about hypocrisy, Erik. But - belonging to a religion is something you choose. It also tells something about your personality. Thing is, many NS bands also include white supremacy as well as racism in their lyrics. Being black or yellow is not something that you choose. Nor does it necessarily reflect your personality. That's what I generally find wrong about NS(BM).

 

[J.]

There is a difference between singing about your pagan/heathen ancestary and shite like "kill the my pals, kill the my pals" a la Arghoslent.

Makes sense, though Arghoslent's lyrics aren't that daft. So they use the word "my pals" once an album.....

But bringing back Erik's point, why aren't you all up in arms about these bands yelling "kill the Christians, kill the Christians"?

 

[JayKeeley]

Makes sense, though Arghoslent's lyrics aren't that daft. So they use the word "my pals" once an album.....

It's not just the use of the word specifically - in fact, that isn't such a big deal because black people themselves have desensitized the word - but it's their entire message about deciding which 'species' should be regarded as sub-human, and then writing music about it hoping for people to buy into their lyrics.

I'm not judging, I'm sjust aying that I feel icky about it. It wholeheartedly lacks intelligence, so I choose to avoid it. If that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it. I can't help what people believe in their own spare time, but I can help whether I have swastikas or hateful imagery sitting in my house:

I look at this album cover now, and I laugh because it's SO STUPID, but it's scary that there are kids looking at this thinking, "yeah, those my pals takin' all our white women! Let's go kick their heads in!".

For some reason, I don't feel quite so icky about a BM band from Northern Europe singing about their ancestary, pagan beliefs and historic cultures, and the torment they feel over Christians desecrating the graves or idols of their forefathers. If they feel pride over wanting to reclaim their lands then I can appreciate that sense of pride.

Maybe it's just me, but there is something a lot less offensive about this:

But bringing back Erik's point, why aren't you all up in arms about these bands yelling "kill the Christians, kill the Christians"?

See post above yours.

 

[Tranquillian]

It is much harder to kill off humanity than to do it piece by piece by beating up a "my pals". Wanting to kill off humanity can't be anything but an image thing in my opinion because it just isn't a viable option.

Edit: JayKeeleys post above mine reflects my ideas about this topic.

 

[Hell Mike]

I don't know anyone that buys stuff just because it says NSBM on some distro-page from poland. Do you?

 

[JayKeeley]

I don't know anyone that buys stuff just because it says NSBM on some distro-page from poland. Do you?

Ayeka might be able to help you there.

 

[Hell Mike]

I still have a hard time believing that Ayeka himself finances all the deathcamps the NSBM hordes obviously run

 

[JayKeeley]

So by that logic, you would be OK with a band saying "KILL ALL my pals" then, because that's clearly not viable?

Well, saying "KILL ALL HUMANS" is non-discriminatory.

 

[JayKeeley]

I still have a hard time believing that Ayeka himself finances all the deathcamps the NSBM hordes obviously run

Are you joking? Ayeka is the billionairre grandson of Himmler and Hitler's gay love child that they adopted whilst on holiday in Bangkok back in '42. Their will left him nothing other than the key to a Swiss bank account full of Hebrew gold. His mission in life is to support the rebuilding of a modernized death camp somewhere in Bethlehem, but I guess he's starting with gaining some Slavic support since they're cheap labour.

 

[Hell Mike]

Himmler is with two "m"'s

 

[JayKeeley]

Is it really? "Kill everything that lives" is, I'll give you that.

Well, what else lives other than humanity? We need to include Plant and Animal life in this equation?

Either way, 1) you STILL don't have a problem with "kill all christians" bands,

If the lyrics lean towards asking people to go out and kill people while they pray in their churches, then of course I would have a problem with that. If people have a problem with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Republicans, Democrats, or asshole drivers, as a chosen belief, then it's all fair play.

It's all about being responsible enough to conciously segregate 'storytelling' and 'reality'. The problem is, there are enough juvenille delinquents out there who take this shit seriously, and think that beating up "my pals" will solve all their problems.

and 2) you yourself are being discriminatory by not buying NSBM.

Discriminatory or selective?

 

[JayKeeley]

Himmler is with two "m"'s

Either way, the point is made. People buy NSBM just because it is labelled so, and that automatically makes it a gimmick. Blame the consumer, not the artist.

 

[Under a Stone]

I might be wrong by saying this but isn't the supposed ideology behind black metal is somehow connected with nationalism?

 

[J.]

It's all about being responsible enough to conciously segregate 'storytelling' and 'reality'. The problem is, there are enough juvenille delinquents out there who take this shit seriously, and think that beating up "my pals" will solve all their problems.

A lot of people (some in this forum) think killing all the Christians will solve all the world's problems. Ths is no different.

 

[Ayeka]

Are you joking? Ayeka is the billionairre grandson of Himmler and Hitler's gay love child that they adopted whilst on holiday in Bangkok back in '42. Their will left him nothing other than the key to a Swiss bank account full of Hebrew gold. His mission in life is to support the rebuilding of a modernized death camp somewhere in Bethlehem, but I guess he's starting with gaining some Slavic support since they're cheap labour.

If only that were the case, then I could actually afford to buy every single release from the fabled Polish distro list. Unfortunately I have to limit myself to releases that have a good rep from word of mouth, cheap demos and - god forbid - more albums by NS bands that I've enjoyed for a while. You have to start somewhere, but you are right - if I had unlimited resources I would buy every single NSBM release I could. Just like I'd buy those remastered Iron Maiden and Judas Priest CDs to complete my collection (even though I already got 'em on vinyl), all the manga I want, and just about any other music release I can lay my grubby mits on. I'm such a whore
Seeing as it's become a gimmick now (really? I thought these guys did it because they believed in it. I'm so gullible!) then why don't you lay into the rest of my collection, JK? Take my latest haul for example...I got Dark Angel just because it was thrash, and The Chemical Wedding just because Bruce is a member of Iron Maiden. Does this also make me a bad consumer?

I see your point about hypocrisy, Erik. But - belonging to a religion is something you choose. It also tells something about your personality. Thing is, many NS bands also include white supremacy as well as racism in their lyrics. Being black or yellow is not something that you choose. Nor does it necessarily reflect your personality. That's what I generally find wrong about NS(BM).

While this is a fine point, I think it overlooks the fact that one of the reasons people will sing about this kind of thing is because they feel threatened. I know over here a lot of us are fucked off to the back teeth with illegal asylum seekers swarming over here in numbers so vast even the government has had to admit they don't know how many there are...the same government that tells us that multiculturalism is the greatest thing since sliced bread and implying that if we ain't greatful to be swarmed by these illegals then we must be evil racists. There's a feeling that anyone who dares to critiscise someone of a different colour will be labelled a racist. Hell, see the Jews in Israel again. Any critiscism and we get beaten with the Holocaust guilt stick. Minorities have all these organisations and pressure groups set up to impose their will on us, but the only thing whites have to turn to are things like the KKK, Aryan Nation, Church Of The Creator, Combat 18 and all our NS bands. No wonder you end up with individuals lashing out at coloured people.

 

[JayKeeley]

For every NS band you choose not to listen to because they have lyrics that are anti-semitic or racistic towards blacks I can point out three bands you wouldn't think of boycotting that have lyrics that deal with the same type of things against christians -- not christianity, CHRISTIANS.

I think NSBM is an excuse for people to listen to nazi-crap just to avoid looking like a hypocrite. It's like saying that just because one listens to Hate Forest, that then forces the door open for one to listen to neo-Nazi skinhead bands because anything else would otherwise be hypocritical. How ridiculous. Since when was that freedom of choice ever revoked?

Nobody is putting a gun to your head telling you that because you listen to Hate Forest then you must subscribe to the ways of the Third Reich. I'm not seeing that correlation.

This also implies that NSBM is the same as neo-Nazi fascism, which it is not. Being proud of one's nation, or nation's history, or the acts of their forefathers is a complete and utter virtue. This is different to telling people to "Lynch the my pals".

 

[General Zod]

Lyrics have always been important to me, so I've never bought music by anyone whose politics and/or idealolgy I take issue with.

Zod

 

[Hell Mike]

This also implies that NSBM is the same as neo-Nazi fascism, which it is not. Being proud of one's nation, or nation's history, or the acts of their forefathers is a complete and utter virtue. This is different to telling people to "Lynch the my pals".

Being proud of one's nation, or nation's history, or the acts of their forefathers mostly has little to do with politics.
National Socialism is much more than telling people to "Lynch the my pals".

 

[General Zod]

I have a question about the term "non-white". On the surface (no pun intended) it would seem obvious. However, Jews are apparently "non-whites", even though almost all the Jewish folks I've met have the same skin color as all the white supremacists I've met. So, apparently it's not as obvious as one might think. For instance, where do people of Oriental and Indian heritage fall in the minds of those who subscribe to this line of thinking?

Zod

 

[JayKeeley]

you are right - if I had unlimited resources I would buy every single NSBM release I could.

You would buy it all without having ever heard it. You therefore buy on the genre label alone due to it's ideology, and not the quality of music. I'm not judging you, I'm just making an observation. Correct me where I'm wrong.

To avoid looking like a hypocrite, I have ALWAYS stated that for my own buying pattern, the quality of music comes first. If you can add integrity and intelligence to the end-product, then better still.

Just like I'd buy those remastered Iron Maiden and Judas Priest CDs to complete my collection (even though I already got 'em on vinyl), all the manga I want, and just about any other music release I can lay my grubby mits on. I'm such a whore
Seeing as it's become a gimmick now (really? I thought these guys did it because they believed in it. I'm so gullible!) then why don't you lay into the rest of my collection, JK? Take my latest haul for example...I got Dark Angel just because it was thrash, and The Chemical Wedding just because Bruce is a member of Iron Maiden. Does this also make me a bad consumer?

So the difference here is that you bought stuff because you listened to it already and liked it.

As much as I LOVE Iron Maiden, I refuse to buy Virtual XI. As much as I LOVE Bruce Dickinson, I have an incredibly difficult time coming to terms with the song, "Bring your Daughter to the Slaughter".

There's a feeling that anyone who dares to critiscise someone of a different colour will be labelled a racist. Hell, see the Jews in Israel again. Any critiscism and we get beaten with the Holocaust guilt stick. Minorities have all these organisations and pressure groups set up to impose their will on us, but the only thing whites have to turn to are things like the KKK, Aryan Nation, Church Of The Creator, Combat 18 and all our NS bands. No wonder you end up with individuals lashing out at coloured people.

There is a difference in wanting to change the rules of immigration, and wanting to stab a 'my pals' in the throat just because he happened to walk down the street you grew up on.

As much as I detest the very existence of Israel and it's unanimous support by the USA, I can't condone Hezbollah or Al Queda suicide bombings. Again, that probably makes me a hypocrite. So be it.