Viking mythology and all that goes with it

Baraak said:
Hello all!

Wow what a read! I have spent the last 3 days completely gaffing off my work and just reading every word of this thread. :zombie: I even followed along with most the links and read much of the Poetic Edda, which I’d never even heard of until 3 days ago. This has been quite possibly the most interesting read I have ever come across on the net. :cool:

:kickass:
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OK, so that post, right there, made all of the umpteen posts I've made so far totally worth while. Damn, that makes me happy that you found the Edda!Somebody else has read about me and mine, and I have maybe helped in keeping the memory of Them alive. That's the objective - to do honour to the warriors that came before us. What a good post to read on Remebrance Day! I know I yak at y'all about this stuff incessantly, and most of you get it, but most of you also have some idea what I'm on about. I just think it makes it worth while when you can introduce someone to something new that's actually good and that leads to a better understanding between us.

I think I'm with ER in regards to chaos, balance and all that. You know the symbol for Yin and Yang? One half is black, the other one is white, but in each there is a drop of the other colour. That's because there is a bit of both in all of us. Loki may be the black part, but he still has some white in him. There is a bit of good in every bad, a bit of male in everything female and so on, it's just that most of us don't want to own that part. Oden had a feminine side (for which Loki gave him so much crap in Lokasenna...), and Loki did a lot of really dumb and even meanspirited things, but then again, if he hadn't done them, the world would be at a standstill (and he did try to fix most of them once he realized how stupid he'd acted). I know Runesinger, for example, doesn't like Loki at all, partly because she's devoted to Balder. But I think you don't have to like someone to understand the necessity of him or her being there. Personally, I don't mind Loki, but then I've spent the better part of two decades working with two-year-olds. I know how they tick, so it's not too hard for me to figure out how Loki ticks... I try to treat him much the same way I treat the toddlers (patience and respect). In any case, he is the sworn blood-brother of Oden, so even if I hated him, I'd have to treat him like that, based on the fact that I would not wish to disrespect my man Oden. There's a reason why things are set up that way, and it's only when we fuck up and stray off the path that we end up in conflict that cannot be solved with patience and respect. Everybody in this world is somebody's kin, so everybody deserves respect based on that (kind of like Original Sin in reverse).

Only those that die in battle go to Valhall. This is true, but then my people are known for their kennings, which really are metaphors for things. So really, how do you define battle? Nobody said it had to be a physical battle against, let's say, the Taliban. Nobody said it couldn't be psychological warfare or a battle for the faith or something like that. And I strongly feel that those who wish to go to the Christian God go to that God, but those that want to be with the Aesir and Vanir go with them. That's a very western world sort of question, actually. That's not to say it's a bad one, just that people who are no judeo-christian generally understand the concept of different gods for different people, and that there is no conflict. In the judeo-christian religions, one is supposed to convert people of other faiths, but the rest of us don't feel the need. We just let people hear whomever is speaking to them. That's where you'll go. Simple, huh?

Celtic, I did not think they were stupid questions (still don't). Everyone has to start somewhere, and at least you were smart enough to ask, rather than remaining ignorant because you were afraid to! -T
 
I agree with you ER & Tyra. Balance is the key.

I think I am either too good or way to bad, but when this happens, the other side of my concience kicks in. So does this mean my after life will be decided my this balance and the final score?

I hope not, because I know I have way too many 'bad thoughts' that go without action. Sort of reminds me of ending up in a place where Pinhead (Hellraiser movies) ends up being my judge.

So I don't think I have a choice one way or the other about the afterlife, it's out of my hands. In the end I can only be remembered and judged by my entire life's worth and my actions while in that. Being judged outside of that just fit into my thinking.

You could go with the flow of most people I know, "In a hundred years, who's going to give a shit". Well if you go with that then I think you definately are selling your self short and missing alot of what the world has to offer, or how much you can give to the world while you have the chance. So I follow the principle of trying to make at least one person feel good or smile per day. If I believed in Karma, then I am about minus 1200, so have a long way to go.

Don't get me wrong though, I like who I am today, I just hate the person I used to be.

This is easier to do with a group of people around a campfire
 
Baraak: Just read them in the order they are listed. Voluspá is a difficult text to grasp, though, and it gets worse with some translations. I am not sure how many different translations you can get on line, but I know Northvegr.org has quite a few of them. Sometimes it helps switching to another translation if you're not getting it...

ER: I can't think of any attributes, to be honest. He's a shape shifter, too, so I think he tends to look different to different people. To me, he looks brown haired with blue almost violet eyes, gangly and sort of sinewy body. But that's just to me, and I don't look at the exterior, I look at the soul. That's how I can tell it's Loki or Oden, even when they are in a different hamn ("shape"). The eyes give the soul away. Some see Loki blonde, and occasionally, we know from the sagas, he comes in the shape of a horse etc., but what's behind the eyes is always the same.

Shealladh: The thing you have to remember is that you have to go from linear time thinking (like ours) to non-judeo-christian three dimensional time concept (like theirs). Once you switch over, you'll realize that you do not have to concern yourself with the afterlife, because you are already in the past, present and future. Focus on being the best you can be ATM. If you do the best you can each time, then you'll have no reason for regret. They say "Make few oaths and break none" for a reason. You are held accountable to those to whom you have made oaths and those who witnessed you make them. In a Christian world, you are judged when you die. In an Asatru world, you are judged here and now by yourself and your peers. If you promise something to someone, including a God or Goddess, then you had better be ready to keep that promise, or you let yourself down, the person you made the promise to, and all those who witnessed you say it. That is the difference between a Christian wedding and an Asatru wedding, for example. At a Christian wedding, the couple makes vows to God and each other, but at an Asatru wedding, the vows are made to the couple and the witnesses. If A Christian breaks his vows, he has sinned agains God, but if I break my vows, I have broken my oath to my spouse and all those who watch me make my vows, which invariably includes my God and/or Goddess and my ancestors. You stand in the middle of what was and what will be, and so you must bridge the two with your actions. In the end, and this is an important point, "the fate of Norns await us all", so you will, at the end of your life, go to the place you are supposed to go. The Norns know where you're supposed to go, so you do not have to worry about it. They know exactly how many warriors Odin and Freya will need at Ragnarök, and who needs to be taken when. You may be able to change what is between when you were born and when you die, but you do not need to worry about where you go after, because it is already decided and you can rst assured that you will go to the right place. This means that all you have to worry about is making this life the best it can be, so that when you die, hopefully it'll have been good enough that people will remember you and speak of you for a long time to come, so that you live on here and wherever "there" is. That's why you must think in three dimensions, too - here and there.
 
Thats what i thought you would say about Loki lol thank you :)
Since a few posts you give some hints about asatru weddings and such, could you say more about that please? a few pages ago you mention hamblat? something like that i dont remember.
 
Tyra said:
ER: I can't think of any attributes, to be honest. He's a shape shifter, too, so I think he tends to look different to different people. To me, he looks brown haired with blue almost violet eyes, gangly and sort of sinewy body. But that's just to me, and I don't look at the exterior, I look at the soul. That's how I can tell it's Loki or Oden, even when they are in a different hamn ("shape"). The eyes give the soul away. Some see Loki blonde, and occasionally, we know from the sagas, he comes in the shape of a horse etc., but what's behind the eyes is always the same.
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Perhaps theres a subtility I didn't understand but how is it people see Loki? Isn't he 'in chains till Ragnarok'? Perhaps he can still roam around by some supernatural way? Or he's actually not chained yet?
I tend to think of the Gods as being very human, the only difference is that they are creators, particularly strong and have some "abilities" like powers. But they stay human-like hence when they're chained it means they are chained. So how is it possible?


I remember the question I wanted to ask :
A friend of mine went to Sweden not long ago, to a small town, and she witnessed during the solstice or equinox a ceremony which apparently looked very pagan, and the whole town participated in it, I mean it was a natural festivity for the town (not just a small group of people).
For those who could know about this, could it be a pagan festivity or is it just a christian one with obvious and visible pagan backgrounds?
 
It depends on which equinox or solstice it was... Some celebrations are outright pagan with just a Christian name attached to them, while some are Christian with pagan roots. Midsummer is outright pagan, Valpurgis is wholly pagan with a Christian name, and Yule is some kind of mix of Christian Christmas and pagan Yule. Yule is not a public celebration, though, so I am guessing it'd probably have been either Valpurgis or Midsummer.

As for you question about Loki, I don't really know how to answer it. I "saw" him, but not in chains. That's all I can tell you...
 
Celtik Militia said:
Perhaps theres a subtility I didn't understand but how is it people see Loki? Isn't he 'in chains till Ragnarok'? Perhaps he can still roam around by some supernatural way? Or he's actually not chained yet?
I tend to think of the Gods as being very human, the only difference is that they are creators, particularly strong and have some "abilities" like powers. But they stay human-like hence when they're chained it means they are chained. So how is it possible?
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As far as I know Loki gets chained after Baldurs death. I don't think that happened yet.
I don't know if you can think of it that way in the first place though ... I don't really think time matters at all, mythologically. At least not until the end is coming near ...
 
Baraak said:
PS Rune, you do not live far from me at all, I have a freezer full of freshly picked black berries, we will have to get together and you can show me how to make some kick ass mead. I’ve tried it only a few times and absolutely loved it! :kickass:
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I'm over on the east side. Our main boast is the blueberry bogs, so I have a freezer full of Blueberries. I am planning on doing a dry mead, that my brother Eric and some of the other guys like. It's a recipe called "Bifrost." I think Tyra's husband will like it too, so I'll have to get her some samples for him. Pm me when you have a chance.

Oops, I better edit this down so I don't chew up a whole page...
 
R, now that's stating the obvious! ;) My hubby likes all mead. I think he'd even drink Thorfin and Eric the Blacks' mead in a pinch. :yuk: Me, I'm more particular. Having said that, we did break out one of your bottles the other weekend to celebrate that our bedroom now has a wall... :kickass:

And that's officially the most smilies I have ever used in one post. :rock:
 
Tyra said:
R, now that's stating the obvious! ;) My hubby likes all mead. I think he'd even drink Thorfin and Eric the Blacks' mead in a pinch. :yuk: Me, I'm more particular. Having said that, we did break out one of your bottles the other weekend to celebrate that our bedroom now has a wall... :kickass:

And that's officially the most smilies I have ever used in one post. :rock:
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Congratulations on your new wall. It must be a relief to have that done!

Which mead did you try of the ones I gave you?

The "Bifrost" recipe is something special, as it's a "true" mead - no extra flavoring. It's a dry mead but I'd like to "sparkle" :kickass: it a little, so I might need some advice from your hubby, being the sometime brewer that he is.

Runesinger
 
Erzebeth.Rouge said:
Personnaly, im not a follower of any faith (xtian, islam, buddism...) or a believer... A few years ago i was still considering myself some sort of atheist - that denomination freaked my mother out but i didnt care - with if not a belief, a hope that the afterlife isnt a blackhole of emptyness and uncounciousness. And with years i became more and more aware of my surroundings and nature. I dont believe in a Mother Nature, or a Gaia, or a specific entity ruling over something, but i do believe there is if not spirits, there is energies working... whatever they are and whatever the human named them.
Then i encountered Norse mythology via researches and later on via Amon Amarth, which was decisive. In all the religions ive overlooked, the one that makes more sense to me is the old norse one. I dont consider myself asatru, but i do have pagan tendencies and the asatru beliefs makes me want to know more. i find it very rich and intriguing partly because theres still so much to discover. And more importantly, i can be free within that belief to learn and learn more w/o having a church or organization trying to recruit me actively or deviously. Hel! im learning swedish in order to study there eventually and have a real history class about viking era! thing i cant have here.
But if ive write all this, it was to give you my opinion Baraak



Since im not asatru, i cant tell what would be my belief on that. And i certainly cant speak for anyone. But personally, i think that the afterlife would be like you want it to be : xtians that have been good in life will want to be in heaven so they will imagine it, xtians that have remorse will believe they deserve hell so they will cast themselves in torment... if you believe theres a Valhalla or Bilskirnir or other god's hall - regarding which norse god youre the most attached to - youll want to believe youll go there in afterlife.
IMO it really is about what you think is true, a truth is ultimately personal and if some sort of organization is trying to sell its truth to people, you end up with xtians beating themselves up over things they havent done, said, think, or begin to think even... (theres many kind of violence and here i mean both physical and mental) and then denaturing the belief and its followers. (Thats showing a strong historical bias, sorry if i offened anyone, it wasnt the goal)
So i guess you need to know and believe on ON Gods in order to go to their hall. (Valhalla is the most known Hall, its Oden's Hall and you'll go there by dying in battle, yes. but its not the only hall, since Oden isn the only god, hes just the head of them all. If youre a follower of Thor, youd end up in Bilskirnir as i said. (hey i just thought about it, Tyra, Bates, Runesinger please? we determined Thor is the most praised god by the general population, farmers and so on. And since Bilskirnir is the biggest hall of them all, it fit doenst it? Thor being the most praised gather the most people in his biggest hall?) )

Ultimately, i think it depends on what you know or believe is true to you. the more you know the more 'choice' you have. I giggle thinking that (i.e.) if one is a xtians but knows about other beliefs and how they work etc, and when that one dies and found himself in, say Valhalla, he will be wondering where he is and think OMG MY FAITH WAS WRONG! IM NOT IN HEAVEN NOR HELL! i giggle thinking that subcounsciously that one knew his truth. but maybe im just too cynic...
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One other note to add. Odin and Freya divide the fallen warriors between them.
 
Some of the recent questions have been about time. I believe that since Earthquakes exist Loki is already chained. We are still alive though and the world hasn't been engulfed in flame so we haven't reached Ragnarök yet though ; ) . I think despite Loki being chained we can still sense his presence in many things though, those things concerning lies and deceit.

So knowing that we are somewhere between those two events please keep your nails trimmed and throw the broken chunks of your shoes away.

p.s. I have been checking this thread out since I made my account last year but don't think I had gotten around to giving input till now : P, I've thought about the time aspect a lot. Although its all a matter of perspective I guess.
 
Gorlith, your post appeals to me, that seems logical.

Have any of you seen the recent adpatation of Beowulf? I liked it, twas pretty cool although not totally accurate... still a fun watch. And quite antichristian at times by the way :)
 
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