Det Som Engang Var
Viking Bastard
It was a great movie. Not accurate at all though. But they did a superb job with Grendel, if you see it in 3-D like I did he will scare the shit out of you when he first comes on.
Viking mythology and all that goes with it
- Thread starter Celtik Militia
- Start date
Well, i saw it in 2D and Grendel is still terrifying. The way he yells... fucking freaky.
And i didn't think it was THAT inaccurate. The main difference is that they added a link between Grendel and the dragon Beowulf fights... and that link needed a few changes like Grendel's mother being very fuckable. I think that was necessary, because people who aren't familiar with germanic legends and mythology would find it too over the top if Beowulf just happened to fight so many random monsters.
DragonKeeper
czarica i pijana
Does anyone know what Skem-degi is? Some guy just asked me about it and I had never heard of it before. Now I am really curious to know what it is 
Tyra
Member
I've no idea. Is that how you spell it, for sure? I mean, I can search for anything on that term in the Scandinavian languages etc., but that's providing we know that's the correct spelling.
DragonKeeper
czarica i pijana
I have no idea...that is how the guy spelled it. He was asking if I was getting ready for it and I felt bad for not knowing what he was talking about. He said he was building a bonfire for Skem-degi or Mother Night as he also called it....if that helps at all.
Thank you Tyra for trying to find out more about this, you are always helpful
Thank you Tyra for trying to find out more about this, you are always helpful
Tyra
Member
Oh, that's probably about Yule, at the winter solstice. We usually hold blot then. OK, I'll see if I can find something, now that I know where to start!
Bates
Swamp Yankee
Skem-degi is something like "Shortest Day" in possibly Nynorsk or modernized Old Norse (only reference is have is bokmal, but it's not svenska, islenska, or dansk), as best I can figure, (ON "skemmr"-shorter; ON "dœgr" - day), so yeah, the solstice blot/Yule seems a pretty solid guess.
Tyra
Member
Good diggin' Bates! What he said is about what I can find, too. I've never heard it called that before, but I suppose it works!
Erzebeth.Rouge
Member
A few days ago, i finally had enough time to borrow a book at the city library for pass times. Out of curiosité, i checked if the library hold any book about the viking era and i happilly found some. I took one from an historian or linguist, i dont know how you want to call him, which name is Regis Boyer and how i understand it hes one of the biggest historian of the viking era... seems he participated in establishing a scandinavian program study at the Sorbonne, etc...
I would be interrested in knowing your insight about him and his researches if you have read any of it already.
Anyway for now, the program at the Sorbonne seems really interresting... but i havent checked the fees yet, might explain
I would be interrested in knowing your insight about him and his researches if you have read any of it already.
Anyway for now, the program at the Sorbonne seems really interresting... but i havent checked the fees yet, might explain
A few days ago, i finally had enough time to borrow a book at the city library for pass times. Out of curiosité, i checked if the library hold any book about the viking era and i happilly found some. I took one from an historian or linguist, i dont know how you want to call him, which name is Regis Boyer and how i understand it hes one of the biggest historian of the viking era... seems he participated in establishing a scandinavian program study at the Sorbonne, etc...
I would be interrested in knowing your insight about him and his researches if you have read any of it already.
Anyway for now, the program at the Sorbonne seems really interresting... but i havent checked the fees yet, might explain
Yup, Régis Boyer is THE french specialist of Vikings. I have only one book of his but he has written over 30. I was going to see him at a conferance about mythological creatures in germanic mythology but it was going to cost me 12 euros and I didn't have money for that... I prefer buying a book at that price. I like his work, he doesn't praise the Vikings like a 12 year old wanabe, but he does his best to rectify their image and show their true importance and what they brought to the world, without exagerating. A true specialist.
I'm studying archeology at the Sorbonne, I don't know about the Viking courses but its highly possible. Perhaps in the next years of my studies i'll be able to take it. For the moment my classes are very general.
Apparently, Régis Boyer is or was the head of "L'institut d'études scandinaves"... at the Sorbonne.
As for the fees, education in France is free. Well not totally free, but for a year in university in France its between 100 to 400 euros, depending on the year and how old you are (the older, the less cheap...). New laws on education here make students fear for a higher fee in universities, but the politicians promised that won't happen... they are deceitfull politicians so we can't take their word for it.. just hope. I tend to think they'll keep their promise more or less.
If you come down here, your mother nation ^^ (that is if you're a real french quebecer
), i'll buy you a pint and we'll celebrate your return to the homeland!
Erzebeth.Rouge
Member
LOL id be glad to celebrate my return to the homeland! although my 2 weeks in France this summer were like a dream, i dont know if i could live there as culturally confortable as i am here.
When i was much much younger i used to hope to study at Sorbonne... seems theres a possibility here! but going directly to Sweden is as much interresting...! Anyway, im gonna finish my diploma here in Quebec, wouldnt it be easier after that to enter another university?
As for
It really is interresting, so far ive read 3 or 4 articles about how Viking Age came, the rune stones in Danemark, the snekkja, and theres several more ^^
although my 2 weeks in France this summer were like a dream, i dont know if i could live there as culturally confortable as i am here. When i was much much younger i used to hope to study at Sorbonne... seems theres a possibility here! but going directly to Sweden is as much interresting...! Anyway, im gonna finish my diploma here in Quebec, wouldnt it be easier after that to enter another university?
As for
i agree with you so far. thats the feeling i have reading the book, but its not him that wrote it, although he is the man behind it. Its Les Vikings, premiers Européens VIIIe-XIe siècle, les nouvelles découvertes de l'archéologie (The Vikings, first Europeans, VIIIe-XIe century, the last archeological discoveries)
It really is interresting, so far ive read 3 or 4 articles about how Viking Age came, the rune stones in Danemark, the snekkja, and theres several more ^^
LOL id be glad to celebrate my return to the homeland!
When i was much much younger i used to hope to study at Sorbonne... seems theres a possibility here! but going directly to Sweden is as much interresting...! Anyway, im gonna finish my diploma here in Quebec, wouldnt it be easier after that to enter another university?^^
Yeah, it probably will be easier.
Yeah, i have that book. Its a conferance on the Vikings which was published in book format. Its very good, helped me a lot on an 'exposé' i made on vikings in medieval archeology class.
Erzebeth.Rouge
Member
hehe ^^
i just read that passage, made me laugh in the metro!
"Cependant, les marchands devaient impérativement résider en dehors de Constantinople, sans toutefois avoir l'autorisation de demeurer pendant l'hiver, et pénétrer sans armes dans la ville." (page 124)
"Toutefois, dans la description d'Ibn Fadlan, bien qu'il soit clair que les Rus sont venus dans le but de vendre des marchandises, ils ne sont pas identifiés à des marchands habituels, ils sont équipés d'un arsenal guerrier: <<chacun d'eux, [...], a avec lui une hache, un sabre et un couteau>> qu'il ne quitte jamais." (page 125)
(quick translation : the merchants could never reside in Constantinople, always outside and never throughout the winter and to never enter the city armed. Ibn Fadlan's description says that although its clear that the Rus (means scandinavians here) had come with the purpose of trading, they are not identified as usual merchants, they are equiped like warriors : they all have an axe, a sword (franc-style sword) and a knife that never leaves them)
LOL
All that as a result from the first (successful) expedition they made against Constantinople in 839! Seems they made quite an impression
i just read that passage, made me laugh in the metro!
"Cependant, les marchands devaient impérativement résider en dehors de Constantinople, sans toutefois avoir l'autorisation de demeurer pendant l'hiver, et pénétrer sans armes dans la ville." (page 124)
"Toutefois, dans la description d'Ibn Fadlan, bien qu'il soit clair que les Rus sont venus dans le but de vendre des marchandises, ils ne sont pas identifiés à des marchands habituels, ils sont équipés d'un arsenal guerrier: <<chacun d'eux, [...], a avec lui une hache, un sabre et un couteau>> qu'il ne quitte jamais." (page 125)
(quick translation : the merchants could never reside in Constantinople, always outside and never throughout the winter and to never enter the city armed. Ibn Fadlan's description says that although its clear that the Rus (means scandinavians here) had come with the purpose of trading, they are not identified as usual merchants, they are equiped like warriors : they all have an axe, a sword (franc-style sword) and a knife that never leaves them)
LOL
All that as a result from the first (successful) expedition they made against Constantinople in 839! Seems they made quite an impression
how old is that quote Lupskalla? May I remind you that there are 73 pages here soon to be 2000 posts! what a record!
btw.. nice... nice avatar. ^^
Erzebeth.Rouge : yeah, i remember that passage which i used for my essay. In this book there's also a pretty cool text from a contemporary greek dude saying how horrible these "people from an insignificant northern land" are and how they "gained their reputation thanks to their expeditions against byzantine" and stuff. I love that passage.
soon to be 2000 posts! what a record!btw.. nice... nice avatar. ^^
Erzebeth.Rouge : yeah, i remember that passage which i used for my essay
. In this book there's also a pretty cool text from a contemporary greek dude saying how horrible these "people from an insignificant northern land" are and how they "gained their reputation thanks to their expeditions against byzantine" and stuff. I love that passage.
Erzebeth.Rouge
Member
What i find amusing the most is the personnality each text have linked to each other lol i cant really explain, but its obvious... yeah.. tough to explain....
and i was thinking, how different is the carolingian political/social system from the viking one? the Francs used kings, contes and ducs, bishops, archbishop, etc. As far as i know, and its verry little, viking's system was king, jarl, and thats all i know... : / i understand there is a difference between the role a conte and a jarl would have in their own territory, but maybe it wasnt THAT different? might be a reason why Rollon succeeded in establishing himself permanently in Normandy (of course theres more obvious and simpler and better reasons why, the constant wars for power between the families in Franc territory for exemple). I found it particularly funny when the author of the texte about Rollon says that, in exchange for Normandy and its control, Rollon had to become christian, and that, even if he did.. he did not lol But here comes my thought. My middleage class teacher told us about the church fighting against feudal system (non-clerical ppl taking over clerical duties, even up to papal position, among other details); checking my notes, it seems about at the same time as Rollon obtainning Normandy. Then i think, knowing that the church tried to fight off feudal system, wouldnt it be the church itself that introduced it/forced it in scandinavia THROUGH their religion, therefor making of norse scandinavia another emerging kingdom like the like of the Francs, the Germans, the English ones...? maybe its stretching very far, probably so, since i have no evidence of the collection of notes and informations all scattered. i made the link in my head in the same manner so this is, like i said, only an idea, a rambling of thoughts i thought sharing here cause i dont think id be wanting to share this to one of my teacher any time soon w/o some solid sources... anyway.. ill shut up now...
and i was thinking, how different is the carolingian political/social system from the viking one? the Francs used kings, contes and ducs, bishops, archbishop, etc. As far as i know, and its verry little, viking's system was king, jarl, and thats all i know... : / i understand there is a difference between the role a conte and a jarl would have in their own territory, but maybe it wasnt THAT different? might be a reason why Rollon succeeded in establishing himself permanently in Normandy (of course theres more obvious and simpler and better reasons why, the constant wars for power between the families in Franc territory for exemple). I found it particularly funny when the author of the texte about Rollon says that, in exchange for Normandy and its control, Rollon had to become christian, and that, even if he did.. he did not lol But here comes my thought. My middleage class teacher told us about the church fighting against feudal system (non-clerical ppl taking over clerical duties, even up to papal position, among other details); checking my notes, it seems about at the same time as Rollon obtainning Normandy. Then i think, knowing that the church tried to fight off feudal system, wouldnt it be the church itself that introduced it/forced it in scandinavia THROUGH their religion, therefor making of norse scandinavia another emerging kingdom like the like of the Francs, the Germans, the English ones...? maybe its stretching very far, probably so, since i have no evidence of the collection of notes and informations all scattered. i made the link in my head in the same manner so this is, like i said, only an idea, a rambling of thoughts i thought sharing here cause i dont think id be wanting to share this to one of my teacher any time soon w/o some solid sources... anyway.. ill shut up now...
Tyra
Member
1. Yes, it was the church that, through the kings, introduced the feudal system into Scandinavia. Up until then the Scandinavians had been ruled by the Thing.
2. The Scandinavian Iron Age is over 1000 years long. You cannot forget that when you compare Franks and Saxons and Celts to Scandinavians. If you're looking at the Viking Age, then the Carolingian political system differs vastly, as the Caroligians at that time were Christians, while the Norse were pagans at the begining of the Viking Age. Then the conversion happened gradually over a series of centuries, and then you have Scandinavian areas that were rules just like the Carolingians. Much of the missionary work was done by the Carolingians, and so, the converted took over their style of rule along with the religion.
3. The differences in opinion between scholars on this subject generally stems from the research having been done on Vikings in different areas. Some areas in DK were converted 500 years before some Swedish areas, and some areas lived a completely different culture than others (as in the difference between the Rus in the 900 vs say Rollo and his people, or someone who lived in the Danelaw at it's political peak). I have a feeling that you'll get a very different picture if you paint it from a Frankish perspective than from an Icelandic perspective, and this often leads to completely different opinions. Again, I will remind you that the Iron Age is a very long period of time, and the Viking Homelands cover a vast geographical area. There is no Pan-Germanic culture that is the same and unchanged in time and space, even back then.
4. Europe is in the process of, through the Bologna process, streamlinging education, so that one degree in one country is equal to the same degree in another country. Up until now, our Canadian degrees have not matched some of the European ones. My degree is the equivalent of one Canadian masters, but in Sweden, it was not even a bachelors degree proper up until now. My whole elementay, middle/highschool and college education was not even worth a grade 12 equivalency here, but in the US, it equaled college and the first year of university... In other words, I had to finish my bachelors before a Canadian university would even look at me, and THEN they said "Oh you have a bachelor's, that's the equivalent of a Canadian bachelors" (never mind that I supposedly hadn't gone to secondary education according to them). As the Bologna process comes into play, such kinks in the system will be worked out gradually, I'm sure. It'd probably be beneficial for you to finish as much as you can, then transfer over, as this will give the new system some time to work itself out, sort of.
PS. Got your message on FB, but have not had time to reply yet. Will do that asap.
2. The Scandinavian Iron Age is over 1000 years long. You cannot forget that when you compare Franks and Saxons and Celts to Scandinavians. If you're looking at the Viking Age, then the Carolingian political system differs vastly, as the Caroligians at that time were Christians, while the Norse were pagans at the begining of the Viking Age. Then the conversion happened gradually over a series of centuries, and then you have Scandinavian areas that were rules just like the Carolingians. Much of the missionary work was done by the Carolingians, and so, the converted took over their style of rule along with the religion.
3. The differences in opinion between scholars on this subject generally stems from the research having been done on Vikings in different areas. Some areas in DK were converted 500 years before some Swedish areas, and some areas lived a completely different culture than others (as in the difference between the Rus in the 900 vs say Rollo and his people, or someone who lived in the Danelaw at it's political peak). I have a feeling that you'll get a very different picture if you paint it from a Frankish perspective than from an Icelandic perspective, and this often leads to completely different opinions. Again, I will remind you that the Iron Age is a very long period of time, and the Viking Homelands cover a vast geographical area. There is no Pan-Germanic culture that is the same and unchanged in time and space, even back then.
4. Europe is in the process of, through the Bologna process, streamlinging education, so that one degree in one country is equal to the same degree in another country. Up until now, our Canadian degrees have not matched some of the European ones. My degree is the equivalent of one Canadian masters, but in Sweden, it was not even a bachelors degree proper up until now. My whole elementay, middle/highschool and college education was not even worth a grade 12 equivalency here, but in the US, it equaled college and the first year of university... In other words, I had to finish my bachelors before a Canadian university would even look at me, and THEN they said "Oh you have a bachelor's, that's the equivalent of a Canadian bachelors" (never mind that I supposedly hadn't gone to secondary education according to them). As the Bologna process comes into play, such kinks in the system will be worked out gradually, I'm sure. It'd probably be beneficial for you to finish as much as you can, then transfer over, as this will give the new system some time to work itself out, sort of.
PS. Got your message on FB, but have not had time to reply yet. Will do that asap.
very interesting to read you girls.
My english is just to terrible to reply (i search almost every word in the french-english dictionnary ;-((((
My english is just to terrible to reply (i search almost every word in the french-english dictionnary ;-((((
It is my understanding that there was a small and temporary conversion of Christianity in Sweden in the early 11th century. Christianity didn't become well established there till the mid-12th century. If I remember correctly from the last book I read about Christian conversions. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Tyra
Member
Yes, in some parts of Sweden that is correct. Other parts were fully converted several hundred years earlier. But the "Viking Homelands" also included the Danelaw and Denmark, not to mention the Rus areas and Iceland. The conversion happened very late in parts of Sweden compared to some of the other areas...
