A lot of black metal relies on a falsely presented image. I don't know that Peste Noire is any worse than other bands in the genre in that regard.
What do you see as a 'disgrace' to metal music? Why?
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HamburgerBoy
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For the most part, yeah. I've said that for years.
It's still far from being the only genre with a large number of bands with a pretentious way of presenting themselves.
HamburgerBoy
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Are you talking about all music or just metal? There's nothing else in metal that comes close.
HamburgerBoy
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CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
Serjeant Grumbles
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isberg
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How so? That is not my experience of BM. For thinking highly of themselves its been people like Phil Anselmo, Dave Mustaine. (there are more examples, just not at the front of my forehead atm). Thrash metal people i have experienced to be more out there saying other metal genres are shit than any other. And usually it leaves me with a impression that is their impression on that matter after maby heard "a song" of other genres. BM people digs everything. Alltho ofcourse there are examples in that community as well with shit for brains that spew out turds they think people will aggree on. But that is in every genre. Now, east europe got the most dire BM fans. When i was at a BM festival in Berlin there were people from all over europe there. I checked out the patch vests and jackets of the people there and there was always a mix of BM and thrash(mostly) patches. Talking ahead of myself here now, but i would like to hear your experience on this as you find it to be so.
@SiegeCore i know what you meen. For me personally i have only experienced the european metal community. Have spent time with a few well known bands mostly in the BM genre, and their image is on stage and stays there. Off stage they are normal guys. Not trying to be extreme. If any of them would try to be what their lyrics are about....ffs, what would have becomed of Corpsegrinder for instance. Bands sell a image, a stage show. They are entertainers. Photoshoots, album covers, stage shows, all for the expression of the music. Some of it....well, as a teenager everything extreme was cool. Now alot of it can be a bit much. Hooligan stuff i leave for the rappers. Metal for me is gathering the soldiers to protect the art and lifestyle. Not.... be a juvenile punk. I do also believe that most of that shit is to try and get a image to sell records. Wich is what most bands do, just a lousy one.
On your point on the BM bands not being so misantropic and anti-society; As BM has been stampled as a norwegian invention, i think about the inspirations of those bands. I was explained once that Norwegian, swedish, finnish and russian BM has alot of their inspiration from folk songs, old salms and viking songs. Other eastern europe countries get their inspiration from allready established BM bands. Like Darkthrone, Mayhem and so on. Wich gives them their own impression on how a BM person should be. Some just take it too far, and loose credibility.
I found this documentary i am gonna buy wich gives a decent example of what i am trying to make as a point. They do pilgrimage to Norway just to find out there are not goat heads hanging on every street corner and virgins being sacrificed in at the town square.
CiG
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HamburgerBoy
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Phil Anselmo is an egomaniac, but that's not synonymous with being pretentious. Though he probably is still a bit pretentious in his own redneck way, but it's more of a personal thing than a fundamental ethos of his genre's formation.
CiG
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The Ozzman
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Black metal clearly harbors the most pretentious musicians/fans and I say this as a black metal fan
SiegeCore
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If you may as in music as a whole, I would argue you this to the death but this would take me more to the post-mysterious guy hardcore world than metal itself. Though, I see how in metal black metal could be seen as pretentious by you though I don't agree really...
Honestly, I have met very few "pretentious" black metal musicians/fans in my life and I feel like I've met a good amount of people associated with the genre on both ends of the stick. Again, metal to me strokes a certain fantastical/escapist mentality more than any other form of music. I believe it encourages a certain camaraderie unlike any other forms of music, though there is a undeniable analogous relationship in the noise/industrial underground but even that is a little bit more "legit" in it's topical matter for a number of reasons I can explain elsewhere. A lot of the rhetoric about misanthropy, mysticism, satanism, snow, winter, beautiful wolves running through the rain, isolationism is nothing more than a stylization built around a long running tradition. I also think people forget how successful metal music truly is....it is pretty astonishing. For all the nihilistic and anti-human rhetoric, there are a lot of underground people living pretty well off their bands, labels, metal-themed pubs and breweries, and whatever else. Metal fans spend money like its no one's business. To me, most people want to talk about black metal in a way that isn't really pretentious so much as it is studied and almost dialectical because that in and of itself is fun.
However I don't want that to dismiss it what makes the fantastical element important - it simply stimulates the minds. It creates a musical and cultural vocabulary that is very creative and otherworldly. Furthermore, I truly think it does allow people to think intellectually about things in a way that is really rewarding. I mean, its both fun to think about a bunch of wolf-dogs running around the snow and licking each other (I love wolves) but on the other hand, what does that imagery mean? It's important, you know?
HOWEVER PART. 2 - We all know Blasphemy is the real deal, if you know about the Ross Bay Cult. They aren't nice guys. A lot of trad. black/war metal - not really speaking about the Norway scene but I guess I am kind of - and what comes out of the original bands has something to do with a real deal toughness and brutality that I've seen extended to some gritty parts of real life. Dudes and ladies that thrive off being outlaws and listening to Fallen Angel of Doom and dusting off a line of blow before knocking some fuckers out in some dive-bar. But that's another story.
Maybe that's kind of worthless input though....I don't know....
isberg
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To clarify a bit. Protentious, yes ofcourse. BM is. I see die hard BM fans as a kind of star wars nerds. I guess the bit about "thinking highly off themselves" got me wondering as i was, as Hamburgerboy says, reading this as BM fans being egomaniacs. That is not my experience, and why i asked...and ranted.
I don't really see the point in having a debate about something that's fairly subjective with someone who has a longstanding bias against the subject in question. That would be totally non-productive and redundant.
If you don't find metal outside of black metal to be pretentious, that's fantastic for you.
Satanstoenail
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Only Black Metal is high-art. I know this because I have a very high metal IQ
HamburgerBoy
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I'm fairly certain that Velvet Cacoon is crimsonfloyd's band. Would explain the typo in their name.
That can't be true since Josh from Velvet Cacoon acknowledged that his music is basically a joke and that he took advantage of black metal fans to fund his drug habit. He said that people who like it are stupid and that he put basically no effort into it.
Dazed and Brutal
Yall About to Witness
I thought Genevieve was brilliant. Idgaf that it's a joke, they still mustered a real singular tone albeit Xasthur hitting those marks a tad better. I think anyone who appreciates it can also appreciate its OTP gimmickSimilar threads
