When does life begin?

[monoxide_child]

monoxide_child, I totally agree and understand where you are coming from. Having studied extremism within traditionalist societies, like the Amish, the Hasidim and the FLDS. Here are some of the illnesses that are associated with incest and/or marrying within the community, the majority of them are metabolic:

Also, found a Wiki topic on Jewish views on contraception: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_contraception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_incest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage


Amish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinic_for_Special_Children


Jewish community:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews

- Ashkenazi:
Lipid transport diseases are one of the most common inherited illnesses among the Jewish community, basically fats are deposited in places where they shouldn't be. This includes illnesses like Tay-Sachs (fatty deposits on the brain) Gaucher's disease (rarely fatal) and Niemann-Pick (fatty deposits on liver, spleen, pancreas, etc.) To give you an idea of how common this disease is, 1 in 25 Ashkenazi Jews carry the gene for Tay-Sachs. During courtship or when considering a partner for marriage, Haredi and Orthodox Jews frequently receive genetic testing. If both partners are carriers for certain illness, courtship will cease.

Metabolic disorders are also common, like congenital diabetes and hypoglycemia. Celiac's disease and gluten intolerances are also fairly common, especially among Hasidic Jews of Southern European descent. Blood and clotting disorders are also major issues (Hemophilia, sickle cell disease). Certain cancers (breast, ovarian, pancreatic, stomach) have also been genetically linked to the Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews also tend to have higher rates of albinism, kidney stones, Mediterranean fever (linked with malaria) and Tay Sachs (about 1/110).


Related to the genetics topics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence (crazy controversial topic)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron
(Very interesting, about how Y-Chromosome Aaron and how Kohenim can trace their ancestry back to the Temple in Jerusalem, Levites can also do the same)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay_sachs

FLDS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumarase_deficiency (Basically, Mormon Down Syndrome)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

(Cities with the highest rates of Fumarase deficiency)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildale,_Utah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona



Sorry! Hope this relates to the discussion!!

wow
when i said "mandatory abotion situations"
i meant more along the lines of serial rapist impregnating all his victims
and the pedophiles impregnating 8-year-olds
i didn't realize incest-caused-birth-defects were such an epidemic

 

[monoxide_child]

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/gmd-social-forum/768410-abortion-thread.html

is anyone here posting in both abortion threads???

 

[Tor_Hershman]

Life begins when the brain is completely formed
Now play me little game...

 

[monoxide_child]

i still stand by my statement that
there are occasionally (extreme) situations where an abortion should be mandatory instead of merely "an option"

i don't usually say this to people face-to-face because i live in "the buckle of the bible belt"

Life begins when the brain is completely formed
Now play me little game...

i laughed so hard i fell out of my chair

 

[Summerian]

What are your views on abortion?

When adults stop murdering breathing humans we can have a talk about when and what abortion is.

(Abortion is what happens when USA finds out you have oil and no nukes.)

 

[monoxide_child]

When adults stop murdering breathing humans we can have a talk about when and what abortion is.

(Abortion is what happens when USA finds out you have oil and no nukes.)

cop-out answer
also oil-and-nukes is something that should be in a whole seperate thread
maybe the "batshit theory of the week" thread

 

[Fealow]

Is this thread talking from an emotional point of view or a scientific one? there seems to be a heavy mix between the two here. If it is emotional for the most part I'm going to have to say that science does a better job of helping us survive. Our emotions are there to help us survive, that can not be denied, but emotions also start wars, are extremely subjective and can be easily manipulated... The same can not be said for science though, can it?

Personally I've learned when and where my emotions are right or wrong when up against a scientific point of view and for that reason I am pro abortion. I am not a hateful person or heartless, I just have control over what needs to be done verses what wants to be done when I have inner conflicts.

 

[monoxide_child]

there's a woman on this forum who has already had an abortion herself, kinda wish she would post on this thread

 

[Summerian]

cop-out answer

No, not really.
Western society allows what could best be described as a sociopathic attitude toward 3.rd world countries. If we can not give a shit about 7.5 million children dying every year primarily of malaria and dysentry (mosquito nets and clean water) then why not allow any form of abortion?
Just attitude.

 

[monoxide_child]

No, not really.
Western society allows what could best be described as a sociopathic attitude toward 3.rd world countries. If we can not give a shit about 7.5 million children dying every year primarily of malaria and dysentry (mosquito nets and clean water) then why not allow any form of abortion?
Just attitude.

what i meant was that this specific thread is devoted to the singular issue of abortion

discussing death that is not abortion should be in a different thread

unless someone is saying that there is some sort of correlation between whether or not an american woman is willing to abort her fetus and whether or not that same specific woman is ignoring/paying attention to the death outside of america, then in that case the 3rd world death could be mentioned here

 

[Summerian]

If society says that 7.5 million children dying is okay with it's lack of action in preventing this - what right do society have making abortion illegal?
You're not really saying EU, USA and other rich western countries don't know about this? 7.5 million children dying needlessly every year... THEY DO! So what's with the pretended caring for fetuses? The abortion issue isn't one at all. It's a psydo debate to keep people from seeing war, corruption and whatever other things the powerful want to keep secret.
So when does life begin? When the powerful says so, that's when.
Womans right are human rights and that's socialism and that's evil.
So abortion is evil and caring for 7.5 million dying children is communism and caring for fetuses is doing the Lords work.
Life on earth began 3.6 billion years ago.

 

[monoxide_child]

If society says that 7.5 million children dying is okay with it's lack of action in preventing this - what right do society have making abortion illegal?
You're not really saying EU, USA and other rich western countries don't know about this? 7.5 million children dying needlessly every year... THEY DO! So what's with the pretended caring for fetuses? The abortion issue isn't one at all. It's a psydo debate to keep people from seeing war, corruption and whatever other things the powerful want to keep secret.
So when does life begin? When the powerful says so, that's when.
Womans right are human rights and that's socialism and that's evil.
So abortion is evil and caring for 7.5 million dying children is communism and caring for fetuses is doing the Lords work.
Life on earth began 3.6 billion years ago.

i don't understand
this is an abortion thread
the "7.5 million children" has nothing to do with abortion

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

i agree with the "mandatory abortion" thing
i would also add to the list, broke people
if you love penis-in-vagina sex
and you get knocked up because you're too broke to afford a condom
you're too broke to have kids

 

[PrincessHades]

i agree with the "mandatory abortion" thing
i would also add to the list, broke people
if you love penis-in-vagina sex
and you get knocked up because you're too broke to afford a condom
you're too broke to have kids

What is it with you and necroing controversial threads to incite shit?

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

What is it with you and necroing controversial threads to incite shit?

i got bored

 

[PrincessHades]

i got bored

Make a new one preferably not about abortion because its a beaten to death topic that no one will ever agree upon

 

[Nate Skalman]

...and it’s boring as fuck

 

[FEZZILLA]

Life begins at conception. Abortion is the murder of that life. I do agree that in cases like rape an abortion should be a woman's choice. But many rape victims kept their babies and they did not turn out like their rapist daddy. Its all about the morals and values one is brought up on which determines how they will turn out. The likelihood of a child brought up in a loving home with good values becoming a prison bound adult is not as likely as a child brought up with no values. But parents need to raise their children with strong values or the chances of them being prison bound significantly increase.

Women can avoid unwanted pregnancy by learning how to keep their legs closed. They don't have to sleep with every cute guy they meet. Thus here again we are talking about morals and values. Living in a society that encourages divorce through sexually deviant behavior only leads to teenage pregnancy. The key to cutting back on unwanted pregnancy is better morals and more self discipline.

 

[CiG]

I do agree that in cases like rape an abortion should be a woman's choice.

Why? The baby isn't the rapist, why should it be punished if you believe life begins at conception and abortion is murder? If a man commits a crime the state doesn't execute his children.

Seems to fly directly in the face of your expressed morals and principles.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Why? The baby isn't the rapist, why should it be punished if you believe life begins at conception and abortion is murder? If a man commits a crime the state doesn't execute his children.

Seems to fly directly in the face of your expressed morals and principles.

Well that is a point many people will debate over. The rapist forces himself and his seed into a woman. Some women out there didn't want to have their marriage ruined by having a child from another man who was not their husbands. Now I'm pro-life but within reason. If we cannot apply sound reason to national issues then all we're doing is polarizing the nation which causes war. We don't need a war in this nation which is why sound reasoning is applied to sensitive cases like this. Overall I think abortion should be illegal because the overwhelming majority of women having an abortion are not rape victims and are just women who had no self-control and wanted to get rid of the fetus so they can go back out and play. This is a clear case of irresponsible women who were not emotionally ready to have sex in the first place. Sex is not candy and it does come with adult responsibilities. If people want to play then having a baby is the risk of playing around. Aborting the baby for fun as many do so today, making abortion something to do at parties now, is how a society rots and dies. But we still have to be sensitive on this issue and reason well with others as to their situation. I do believe in cases such as rape an abortion is justified. For women should not have to be punished just for being women. A rape victim is a victim and people need to be sympathetic with victim rights. If the women wants to terminate that pregnancy to help save her marriage then that is something the woman and her husband must talk over together. If the woman was a virgin and not married and she was rape and does not want to keep the baby, then she should be free to make that choice on her own. So I believe we need to approve this issue within reason and not get hung up on fanatical positions with only add to the polarization of this nation. Somehow, some way, we need to come together and reach sound conclusions. We can't keep up this radical arguing and fighting.

But if it came down to an absolute choice of completely banning abortion or allowing it completely, I would vote for a complete ban on abortion. However, we can do better than that and if we use our powers of reason we can reach a logical and sound resolve.