When the oceans rise - General Chat Thread

[Tabletwister]

It's all a matter of choice...from where i come from 90% of the population are christians in faith. My grandmother is the last person that i've tried talking with on such matter. In the year 2009 i've spoken with a lot of people in my age that talks and thinks like your grandmother. It's just the way they where teached and grew up with. Sometimes i even make people sad talking about such matters. I don't blame them, they have their way of living and believing...something that i most of all respect. Many of us were teached and learned many things inside metal. Things that make us dig deeper into faith, society and human feelings. Good thing is that we can always find a metal friend, or not, who has the same opinion on many matters and we can talk freely whatever hits our mind without getting misanderstood. I'm sure that there are lots in here in the same situation as yours. Nice of you to start a conversation as this. I'm sure you'll have a huge response from most of fans in here.

 

[~Derek~]

It's all a matter of choice...from where i come from 90% of the population are christians in faith. My grandmother is the last person that i've tried talking with on such matter. In the year 2009 i've spoken with a lot of people in my age that talks and thinks like your grandmother. It's just the way they where teached and grew up with. Sometimes i even make people sad talking about such matters. I don't blame them, they have their way of living and believing...something that i most of all respect. Many of us were teached and learned many things inside metal. Things that make us dig deeper into faith, society and human feelings. Good thing is that we can always find a metal friend, or not, who has the same opinion on many matters and we can talk freely whatever hits our mind without getting misanderstood. I'm sure that there are lots in here in the same situation as yours. Nice of you to start a conversation as this. I'm sure you'll have a huge response from most of fans in here.

Cool, nice to hear, where are you from?

 

[Agah]

There is this girl I know who I try to discuss religion with, but it's impossible. She can feel Jesus in her heart, and she feels that Darwin's theories can't be real, because such a beautiful world can't be randomly made. And I have no way of arguing with what she feels, even though I have scientific evidence that suggests that what she feels is wrong.

Me: "But, the whole earth couldn't have been flooded, there has never been that much water on earth"
Her: "I think there was enough water to flood the earth"
Me: "Well where the fuck did it go?"
Her: "I don't know, maybe God took it all away"

 

[Doomtroll]

I leave religious people alone and they leave me alone.
I had some Jehovah's Witnesses knock at my door, it was just starting to piss down so I let them in and made them some tea and we had a nice little talk about religion.
It was very pleasant.


I'm sure I told this story somewher eon here before, but I forget.

 

[SiMuLaCrUm]

Fortunately my family is usually ok with my atheism.
But there are theses crazy kids at my school that are like that. They always talk about how much they like Jesus and all and carry Bibles around with them and read and study them during lunch. Quite ridiculous if you ask me. They bother me about me being an atheist and absolutely seem to hate my Mayhem shirt...

And now to quote Dr. House MD:

Isn't it interesting... religious behavior is so close to being crazy that we can't tell them apart.

 

[~Derek~]

Fortunately my family is usually ok with my atheism.
But there are theses crazy kids at my school that are like that. They always talk about how much they like Jesus and all and carry Bibles around with them and read and study them during lunch. Quite ridiculous if you ask me. They bother me about me being an atheist and absolutely seem to hate my Mayhem shirt...

And now to quote Dr. House MD:

How does your family feel about your Mayhem shirt? I want one, but since I still live with my family I'll wait until I move out to get one. What do the kids say about your Mayhem shirt?

 

[Tabletwister]

Cool, nice to hear, where are you from?

I come from Greece, the worldwide center of orthodox christian church...

 

[Tabletwister]

There is this girl I know who I try to discuss religion with, but it's impossible. She can feel Jesus in her heart, and she feels that Darwin's theories can't be real, because such a beautiful world can't be randomly made. And I have no way of arguing with what she feels, even though I have scientific evidence that suggests that what she feels is wrong.

The biggest enemy of church is science. If they could only coexist and cooperate...i'm sure people would then had eyes and ears open and been openminded...i don't blame them. I most of all feel sorry about people that don't use or doesn't want to use their logic combined with their believes...

 

[Tabletwister]

double post, sorry...

 

[Øystein G. Brun]

Interesting debate! A subject that really interest me, as you probably understad.

Just wanted "promote" a couple of books that is really interesting on this subject:

- Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion"
- Sam Harris "The End of Faith" and/or "Letter to a Christian Nation"
- Christopher Hitchens "God is Not Great- how religion poisons everything"

Books should always be red with a critical mind, but this are all peaks of religious critisim. Well written and allot of wisdom, eventhough one never agrees to everything written/stated. The are by far potent enough to broaden and enlight some perspectives that many seems to ignore, reject and so forth. I think that Dawkin's book(The God Delusion) is or atleast will be one of the most important books this century.

Enjoy!

 

[Zephyrus]

I read all those books and I second your recommendation. Hitchens is the highlight in terms of good writing.

 

[Tabletwister]

Thanks for the recommendation, i'll keep in mind and i'll sure get my hands on these books as i'm always interested on such matter. I think it's time start reading again...

 

[Agah]

You should also watch the documentary Religulous by Bill Maher. Richard Dawkins also has a lot of documentaries about the subject.

 

[SiMuLaCrUm]

How does your family feel about your Mayhem shirt? I want one, but since I still live with my family I'll wait until I move out to get one. What do the kids say about your Mayhem shirt?

Family doesn't really care. Those kids don't say much but I can see their "YOU ANTI-CHRIST!!!" looks


I'll be sure to look for those books.
Another good one to look for: The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan.

 

[Defiance]

Fortunately my family is usually ok with my atheism.
But there are theses crazy kids at my school that are like that. They always talk about how much they like Jesus and all and carry Bibles around with them and read and study them during lunch. Quite ridiculous if you ask me. They bother me about me being an atheist and absolutely seem to hate my Mayhem shirt...

And now to quote Dr. House MD:

Hehe funny kids .

Interesting debate! A subject that really interest me, as you probably understad.

Just wanted "promote" a couple of books that is really interesting on this subject:

- Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion"
- Sam Harris "The End of Faith" and/or "Letter to a Christian Nation"
- Christopher Hitchens "God is Not Great- how religion poisons everything"

Books should always be red with a critical mind, but this are all peaks of religious critisim. Well written and allot of wisdom, eventhough one never agrees to everything written/stated. The are by far potent enough to broaden and enlight some perspectives that many seems to ignore, reject and so forth. I think that Dawkin's book(The God Delusion) is or atleast will be one of the most important books this century.

Enjoy!

Hey thanks for the recommendations!

I used to be Catholic, but then I became an Atheist. The good thing is that my family my father's side is all Atheist (grandpa used to be and always told me how religion fucked everything up and god didn't exist. Talk about a good example! ), even though my mom's side is Catholic. She basically just gave up hehe. I only go to (a) church to pay my respects if a person has died.

Oh, and the Jehova Witnesses really get on my nerves. I try to be patient with them, but I've got things to do and when they get on my nerves I just say: "I'm an Atheist!" and slam the door .

@ Agah: Some people are so devoted to religion that even though you explain them and explain them they won't understand, simply because it's part of their self and it's too deep into their conscience. But it's always good to explain, maybe some will understand.

Oh, and it's actually quite hard for me as a teacher not to start with all these anti-religion speeches hehe. Maybe when me and the students get to know each other better, I don't want to lose my job hehehehe.

 

[Agah]

@ Agah: Some people are so devoted to religion that even though you explain them and explain them they won't understand, simply because it's part of their self and it's too deep into their conscience. But it's always good to explain, maybe some will understand..

Yeah, well, the girl is the daughter of a priest so there isn't really any sense in trying to get her on "our team". I don't really care anyway, I'm not trying to convert people, I just like discussing religion with someone from "the other team".

Qu Appelle, it would be interesting to read your thoughts of this subject, or rather your thoughts about our thoughts about the subject.

 

[Defiance]

Yeah, well, the girl is the daughter of a priest so there isn't really any sense in trying to get her on "our team". I don't really care anyway, I'm not trying to convert people, I just like discussing religion with someone from "the other team".

Qu Appelle, it would be interesting to read your thoughts of this subject, or rather your thoughts about our thoughts about the subject.

Hahaha yeah that might be a bit difficult, ja?

Yes I would like to read Qu Appelle's thoughts too, but she doesn't post that much anymore.

 

[Tabletwister]

Jesus Christ is the most discussed, advertized, loved and hated personality in the human history. On his name people and church has commited some of the biggest social and human crimes. I'm not in any way worthy or the suitable person to speak for what's right or wrong. I don't know...maybe he was a nice goodwilling person that wanted to help the human society back that days but unfortunaly noone knows the truth behind the lies. Most of all it never even crossed my mind judging God, his existence and his acts...it's far from my earthly existence dealing with such divine matters...my mind can't handle or even get near to such complicated and heavy thoughts...but i will also never stop talking about my point of view and how i try to see things inside my stressed and under heavy fire life, coming from politics, society, tv news and whatever else is trying to suck our brain and thoughts turning us into useless parts of the globalization machine...

This is where church comes in as one of most political movements from day 0 that was created...taking advantage of historic personalities and most important of all trying to get control of our mind and soul. Trying to push our human nature and feelings to our life's edge by putting much fear using words such as the unknown and beyond...it wasn't created in a day and there are very smart persons with church's side that have turned it into a new science using very smart no logic as a weapon to fulfill their unstopable hunger of consuming our feelings and soul to turn it into money, power and to feed their sick egoism and sinfull thoughts...

This is where metal also takes part in doing so...all these satanic, black and whatever bands out there might have as their purpose to wake up the human mind towards faith, in the end are the ones helping church by advertizing it's actions...there is a saying that goes like this...the best advertize is the bad one....if noone would ever deal with christian matters then we wouldn't have a conversation as this one and then church and it's narrowminded followers would fade to die in our ears, mouth and mind...but i'm also very much grateful and honored by metal bands other than these that helped in my life's path and mind decisions by opening my mind and giving me the right questions by dealing with matters that could only make me a better person towards faith, society, nature and whatever problems our world passed till nowadays.

 

[SiMuLaCrUm]

Hmm, now that I think of it, the church really is just one big business making money for some unspecified cause. They hardly mention what they use all that money for, or all that power, other than to corrupt.

 

[Tabletwister]

Beneath the "Vatican" and "Mount Athos" grounds are hidden well not only big faith secrets but also a huge ammount of gold and archaeological arcifacts far beyond our simple human thinking and knowing...i'm pretty sure that they use their money and power to control the world above politics which are just used as puppets...think of what it could happen if the catholic or orthodox church called their followers to unite just to make a statement and show their power to the world, a third world war...or better a holy war if we would like to include the muslim and the jew side into this. Narrowminded supporters of faith for sure at some point of their lifes will be bitten by the dirty mouth they feed...