Wintersun opinions?

[challenge_everything]

My mind boggles that anyone could consider Ensiferum better than Wintersun. In fact I would say that everything Dodens said about Wintersun applies to Ensiferum. There's clearly more sophistication in Wintersun's songwriting than Ensiferum's. Yes, it's overproduced, but it's still pretty well written IMO. Take 'Winter Madness' as an example - it's catchy power metal but not just galloping beats all the time, the drumming is innovative and the riffs are unpredictable yet still flow. And it's not often someone brings something new to the table with power metal these days.

 

[skeptik]

Actually, even though I don't like Ensiferum, the songwriting is exactly why they're better than Wintersun. Wintersun is clearly more ambitious, but they overextend themselves to such a great extent that the songs at least that are on their myspace all inevitably morph into an incoherent mess. Ensiferum is more simple and straightforward, and this better serves the songwriters' skill level. Ambition is a great thing. Ambition without skill is Wintersun.

 

[challenge_everything]

I can understand people bashing it for being too glossy, but incoherent, perhaps in places, but generally no. Despite the fact that it superficially sounds like instantly digestible music, it's not, it actually takes a while for the whole thing to make sense. Unfortunately the tracks on their myspace are probably the weakest ones on the album, and the first one listed there, 'Battle Against Time' is easily the worst of all. 'Starchild' is the best one posted there.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

For your listening pleasure, Matt.

also yeah this is gay.

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't know anybody who likes Wintersun yet has a reasonably respectable view on metal.

This is why I think you're a douchebag.

clearly wintersun fails in comparison to tales of medusa

Don't get him started bro. Although, we will never hear Tales of Medusa, so I suppose we'll never know...

 

[skeptik]

As far as I know, you and Tennyson are the same person and have been listening to metal for 2 years, and got into metal via Thyrfing or something. You two only listen to viking and symphonic metal pretty much. You hardly listen to anything that I listen to, so why would I view your views on metal as respectable? Metal is not even something that is very important to you as far as I'm aware, so you shouldn't take offense. And yes, Tales of Medusa is much better than Wintersun. Others who went to Maryland Death Fest have now heard them and can confirm that they're better, because I brought one of their tapes along to listen to. The fact that you would disagree and probably think that Tales of Medusa is really boring and yet Wintersun is fucking incredibulartastic is why I don't respect your views on metal, because they're basically antithetical to my own. You probably don't respect my views on metal either, so I don't know why you give a shit.

 

[sevag00]

Why bother post in this thread, if you're gonna post opinions which are full of failure. You're embarrassing yourself. Don't get me wrong i don't like Wintersun too.

 

[Ross]

I just heard of the band wintersun recently and I think they are pretty fantastic. Anyone else have opinions on this band? Never seen them mentioned here or anywhere, really. And are there any other side projects of the lead vocalist?

Why bother post in this thread, if you're gonna post opinions which are full of failure. You're embarrassing yourself. Don't get me wrong i don't like Wintersun too.

His posts are not failure at all and if you bothered to read you would see he has every right to post in this thread.

 

[skeptik]

Einherjar, I just want to say that if you have a further problem with me, you should contact me privately. I don't exactly think cookiecutter's taste in music is very respectable, and as far as I know he doesn't view mine as respectable either, and yet we get along perfectly fine, so I'm a bit at a loss as to why it so morally offends you to point out that we fundamentally disagree on what makes metal good. I refuse to continue to have this discussion publicly.

 

[waif]

Ein, I think you interpreted the word "respectable" the wrong way; or rather the right way, but not how Dodens intended it. What I understood from reading his posts is that he does not agree with your tastes, so why should he care about your opinions on bands? This actually makes sense. The implication of the word "respectable," however, would be that he has contempt for your taste, which would just be fucking obnoxious.
There are bands I don't like that I respect, because they're talented and play music for all the right reasons but I just don't like their music.
I don't think Dodens respects Wintersun, though. Just a hunch.

 

[Einherjar86]

Ein, I think you interpreted the word "respectable" the wrong way; or rather the right way, but not how Dodens intended it. What I understood from reading his posts is that he does not agree with your tastes, so why should he care about your opinions on bands? This actually makes sense. The implication of the word "respectable," however, would be that he has contempt for your taste, which would just be fucking obnoxious.
There are bands I don't like that I respect, because they're talented and play music for all the right reasons but I just don't like their music.
I don't think Dodens respects Wintersun, though. Just a hunch.

I think I interpreted it correctly. As you say, there are bands you don't like that you still respect; I'm the same way. However, Dodens is implying that people who don't share his tastes in music don't have respectable opinions.

Take your penultimate statement; there are bands that you don't like, but you respect them because they: are talented, and play music for all the right reasons.

People can choose not to like Wintersun; that's fine with me, and it's their opinion. I admit, it's cheesy, formulaic music.

However, it's incorrect to say that Jari is not a talented musician, and it's presumptuous and unfair to assume that he doesn't play music for all the right reasons. Sure, the music is more accessible than other forms of metal; but that doesn't mean that Jari isn't playing it because he genuinely loves it. My friend Tennyson and I (and you too, WAIF) genuinely enjoy listening to Wintersun, so why is it so hard for some people to believe that Jari enjoys playing it? What irks me is that some people in this thread seem to believe that just because Wintersun is a poppy, catchy, cheesy form of metal, Jari is doing it because he knows he can make more money off of it or get more people to listen to it. However, no one seems to be willing to consider the fact that Jari just might love what he creates.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

My impression of Wintersun's first album is pretty neutral. I understand how people could not like it, because it's simply a matter of taste, but I completely disagree with the "over production" statements. The barebones production is really the only detractor from the music for me. I'd far rather listen to a band with better production like Children of Bodom, even though their music has descended into absolute shit. Even Kalmah has better production than Wintersun and their sound isn't "clean" by any means.

I'm still really excited about Time though, for two reasons. The first of which is that I anticipate an Asian influence and I love that shit. The second is that I deduce from the production related delays that this album actually will have a fully produced sound and I have a pretty big hard on for being able to hear all the parts of the music that I'm trying to listen to.

 

[Tennyson]

Ensiferum is more simple and straightforward, and this better serves the songwriters' skill level. Ambition is a great thing. Ambition without skill is Wintersun.

How does Wintersun lack skill? This shit is seriously boggling my mind. I think you've taken minimalist music to a whole new level. It's one thing to appreciate music that is amazingly simple, it's another thing to use it as a platform to look down on all other music. As a guitar player I've never seen such hate towards technicality than I have seen on this forum. I remember one idiot stating that he learned how to sweep pick in a day and that it was one of the easiest techniques.

It's really just fucking idiocy to tear apart their music the way people have in this thread. I can't count how many times I've felt the need to say this on this forum but: Ya, you may not like the band but don't call them bad when they are clearly skilled musicians. Sometimes I wonder if some people here even know anything about music, or whether they just have listened to metal their whole lives using their experience as a crutch they belittle more accessible sounding bands.

What really pisses me off about these comments is that people who haven't heard Wintersun will read this thread and see: "Oh, Dodens and V5 utterly despise this band, and apparently their music sucks on top of that." And maybe they will never hear it, just like I've never listened to Children of Bodom because they are a joke on this forum. But apparently I should stop letting elitist nerds tell me who sucks, cuz I could be missing out on good music.

 

[mutantllama]

Knowing stuff about music and how it is played doesn't equal if it's good or not. You don't need to know how to play something to appreciate it. I don't like things just simply on the fact that they know how to play their instruments, I like something because they know how to write good music that can touch me some way.

That being said, I have never listened to Wintersun.

So post some youtube videos plox!

 

[Tennyson]

Knowing stuff about music and how it is played doesn't equal if it's good or not. You don't need to know how to play something to appreciate it. I don't like things just simply on the fact that they know how to play their instruments, I like something because they know how to write good music that can touch me some way.

I totally agree, but it does give more insight into different levels of technicality if you play the instrument you are listening to.

 

[mutantllama]

Yeah, but for me sometimes knowing how to play an instrument can sometimes ruin the magic of the music. Like what Fenriz said.

 

[skeptik]

How does Wintersun lack skill? This shit is seriously boggling my mind. I think you've taken minimalist music to a whole new level. It's one thing to appreciate music that is amazingly simple, it's another thing to use it as a platform to look down on all other music. As a guitar player I've never seen such hate towards technicality than I have seen on this forum. I remember one idiot stating that he learned how to sweep pick in a day and that it was one of the easiest techniques.

It's really just fucking idiocy to tear apart their music the way people have in this thread. I can't count how many times I've felt the need to say this on this forum but: Ya, you may not like the band but don't call them bad when they are clearly skilled musicians. Sometimes I wonder if some people here even know anything about music, or whether they just have listened to metal their whole lives using their experience as a crutch they belittle more accessible sounding bands.

What really pisses me off about these comments is that people who haven't heard Wintersun will read this thread and see: "Oh, Dodens and V5 utterly despise this band, and apparently their music sucks on top of that." And maybe they will never hear it, just like I've never listened to Children of Bodom because they are a joke on this forum. But apparently I should stop letting elitist nerds tell me who sucks, cuz I could be missing out on good music.

I'm talking about compositional skill. Writing songs. This has nothing to do with one's ability to play an instrument at a very high level of skill. Technicality of this sort hardly interests me at all. Wankery solos, for example, usually mean next to nothing to me. I'll take the solo in Cirith Ungol's "Frost and Fire" over anything Malmsteen has ever done, for example. Wintersun lacks compositional skill, not technical skill. Their compositions are more ambitious than their songwriting abilities to allow. Now it's time for you and all the other apparent fanboys to get over the fact that some people really think that Wintersun is a shitty band. Do you have any idea how many bands I listen to that I can pretty much guarantee that you'll laugh at, yet I just completely love? The thing is that we are on completely different wavelengths in what we look for in metal, or so it seems, so accordingly I don't give a fuck what you think, and I ask you to do the same with respect to my own opinions on metal. For the record, since Einherjar seems to have a problem with this, the fact that we have a fundamental disagreement on what makes good metal means nothing with respect to how I think of you in any other capacity. I've already cited cookiecutter as a perfect example of how one's taste in music is in no way a hindrance to getting along. Now at this point it would probably just be better to drop the whole thing, as it's rather ridiculous.

Do you like Yes? I'm listening to "The Gates of Delirium" atm off of Relayer. Great fucking song.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Yeah, but for me sometimes knowing how to play an instrument can sometimes ruin the magic of the music. Like what Fenriz said.

I feel like I appreciate music much more now that I "understand" it. I'm not sure if this makes sense to you, but I feel like ten years ago I merely heard music, whereas now I actually listen to it.

 

[Tennyson]

Do you actually think that I respect your opinion on anything, let alone metal? I don't know anybody who likes Wintersun yet has a reasonably respectable view on metal.

I'm talking about compositional skill. Writing songs. This has nothing to do with one's ability to play an instrument at a very high level of skill. Technicality of this sort hardly interests me at all. Wankery solos, for example, usually mean next to nothing to me. I'll take the solo in Cirith Ungol's "Frost and Fire" over anything Malmsteen has ever done, for example. Wintersun lacks compositional skill, not technical skill. Their compositions are more ambitious than their songwriting abilities to allow. Now it's time for you and all the other apparent fanboys to get over the fact that some people really think that Wintersun is a shitty band. Do you have any idea how many bands I listen to that I can pretty much guarantee that you'll laugh at, yet I just completely love? The thing is that we are on completely different wavelengths in what we look for in metal, or so it seems, so accordingly I don't give a fuck what you think, and I ask you to do the same with respect to my own opinions on metal. For the record, since Einherjar seems to have a problem with this, the fact that we have a fundamental disagreement on what makes good metal means nothing with respect to how I think of you in any other capacity. I've already cited cookiecutter as a perfect example of how one's taste in music is in no way a hindrance to getting along. Now at this point it would probably just be better to drop the whole thing, as it's rather ridiculous.

It's quotes like the first one which really set me off, because you aren't taking an "agree to disagree" perspective like you claim in the second quote, you are taking an arrogant, condescending perspective. As I said in my post, I completely understand if you don't like a band, but don't deny their skill. And for the record I think Jari/Wintersun have great songwriting ability, but I would submit that is more debatable than their technical skill which I misinterpreted was under attack.

 

[Omni]

the riffs are unpredictable

Are you sure that you're talking about Wintersun?