The concentration of opinions

[byrne]

I've been annoyed about this for a good while now, but the issue has really reared its ugly head in the 'Rate Slayer albums' thread. (Namely, Hell Awaits being ranked 1/2 by a large number of you. Not that I particularly have a problem with this rating, but rather the way it has come about)

Before I go on, firstly, I understand that there are some more guided opinions floating about the forums when compared to some of the non-sense posted. I also have no problem with people having different opinions to me. I'm pretty used to it.

However, I think as far as the way people converse on this board and subsequently what sort of music they are listening to, individuality has been tainted by elitism, iconism and all sorts of other 'isms' (hehe).

Anyhow, where you can see these issues are in the countless (and fucking repititive) 'recommend me some epic black metal' threads (and the like), the tail-gating of the opinions of certain forums members and the now seemingly uniform opinions a significant number of you seem to have.

When I first joined this board I was baffled with all the Sabbath bashing that was then rampant here. Similarly I remember seeing threads polling who was greater out of Testament and Slayer, Testament winning hands down. Black metal was barely discussed and the top 100 albums of all time would have been dominated by Maiden, Priest, Slayer, Testament with scattered 'underground' bands throughout.

Now, I cant load this front page without seeing something about how much better black metal is than any other form of metal. Similarly, I can't go into a thread about a melodic death band without having some athiest, judeo-christian hating whore whinning about the evils of the gothenburg sound.

Don't take this thread as a targeting anything in particular about a single view (although I will agree my argument is one sided). The aim rather is just discuss how much opinions have been lead in this board. From my perspective they have been lead astray, towards the 'unpopular' paradoxically being the popular. Not because it is 'not popular' opinion, but simply because it is becoming popular opinion because it is cult or unusual.

This makes for an unhealthy board. If people can't form opinions themselves, without having to first research the views of anus.com, other members and any other unusual sources other than music itself, then their opinions are next to worthless.

Any thoughts?

 

[skeptik]

I agree with you.

 

[Caelum Adustum]

I agree to some extent.

However, I was never a big fan of Slayer no matter what era, and I listened to BM before I joined UM.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I've been annoyed about this for a good while now, but the issue has really reared its ugly head in the 'Rate Slayer albums' thread. (Namely, Hell Awaits being ranked 1/2 by a large number of you. Not that I particularly have a problem with this rating, but rather the way it has come about)

I see no reason to believe that this album is popular because people are copying each other. IMO this album is obviously Slayer's most dark and atmospheric album, and I think that is what a lot of people look for in music on this board. Even disregarding that, Reign in Blood is the only one which rivals it based purely on the riffs.

However, I think as far as the way people converse on this board and subsequently what sort of music they are listening to, individuality has been tainted by elitism, iconism and all sorts of other 'isms' (hehe).

Anyhow, where you can see these issues are in the countless (and fucking repititive) 'recommend me some epic black metal' threads (and the like), the tail-gating of the opinions of certain forums members and the now seemingly uniform opinions a significant number of you seem to have.

Just because the board has become more extreme metal-based doesn't mean people are cloning each others' opinions though. Obviously, a lot of people here are going to check out bands recommended by other people on the board, and will end up liking them, not because of who recommended it but because it appeals to them. I do put more effort into appreciating an album that's raved about by somebody with tastes I respect, but that's as far as it goes.

It's only natural that a board's collective tastes are going to shift eventually from rehashed-to-death 80s-style metal.

When I first joined this board I was baffled with all the Sabbath bashing that was then rampant here. Similarly I remember seeing threads polling who was greater out of Testament and Slayer, Testament winning hands down. Black metal was barely discussed and the top 100 albums of all time would have been dominated by Maiden, Priest, Slayer, Testament with scattered 'underground' bands throughout.

Now, I cant load this front page without seeing something about how much better black metal is than any other form of metal. Similarly, I can't go into a thread about a melodic death band without having some athiest, judeo-christian hating whore whinning about the evils of the gothenburg sound.

Don't take this thread as a targeting anything in particular about a single view (although I will agree my argument is one sided). The aim rather is just discuss how much opinions have been lead in this board. From my perspective they have been lead astray, towards the 'unpopular' paradoxically being the popular. Not because it is 'not popular' opinion, but simply because it is becoming popular opinion because it is cult or unusual.

Meh. I don't see how anyone can like Testament more than Slayer, I'm sure many people here feel the same way. It's not unusual for there to be a majority on these things, one way or another, and if the majority suddenly becomes the minority and vice-versa it doesn't mean that everyone in that majority is copying each other's opinion. Nearly everyone with any imagination got sick of the Gothenburg sound, regardless of their beliefs, simply because it grew stale, and was barely more than nwobhm in the first place.

This makes for an unhealthy board. If people can't form opinions themselves, without having to first research the views of anus.com, other members and any other unusual sources other than music itself, then their opinions are next to worthless.

My tastes were similar to Prozak's for a while when I crossed over into extreme metal, simply because I had heard that he was tasteful, I downloaded some stuff he recommended, liked it all and therefore pursued a lot of the bands he enjoyed. It was coincidental that I like a lot of stuff he recommends, but perhaps also because my state of mind is somewhat similar to his, having agreed with a lot of his worldview etc.

 

[Henrik Main]

I completely agree with misfit's post. Back in the days, I remember fans of Cradle Of Filth, nu-metal and such got flamed by people into Emperor and Cryptopsy, for instance. Nowadays, the Emperor and Cryptopsy fans are the ones who get flamed.

It almost seems as if there are some hidden rules on this forum (Far Away From The Sun, Nocturnal Silence, United Aryan Evil and Land Of Frost are vastly superior to everything Exhumed, Emperor, 1349 or Borknagar has ever released, and if you think otherwise you're a retard who's into slam riffs, generic cookie monster vocals, drunken viking vocals, etc etc.) - follow them and be accepted, and if you don't, prepare to be looked upon as a lesser being. Yes, I'm taking it a bit far, but I'm sure you see my point nevertheless.

 

[Jean-Pierre]

I don't really care, although I agree with your post. The only thing that bugs me on this board is that 90% of everyone who posts here don't know jack shit about Power, Traditional, Speed, or Thrash Metal...

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I don't really care, although I agree with your post. The only thing that bugs me on this board is that 90% of everyone who posts here don't know jack shit about Power, Traditional, Speed, or Thrash Metal...

How can one know stuff about a genre that doesn't exist.

 

[Oceanic Motion]

It doen't bother me, but I often see certain board members slag someone off because they believe album 'X' is better than album 'Y' and thats that. End of story. There doesn't seem to be any room for discussion of music just arguments of opinion.

 

[Oceanic Motion]

How can one know stuff about a genre that doesn't exist.

Nice one :Smug:

 

[Stormwatch]

This makes for an unhealthy board. If people can't form opinions themselves, without having to first research the views of anus.com, other members and any other unusual sources other than music itself, then their opinions are next to worthless.

Any thoughts?

How can anyone form an opinion on a band/genre if they've never heard it? You HAVE to go on recommendations from people you respect. That's why I rarely take any of the fucking advice given out here
I don't really see what your problem is - you can't really think the posters here are following trends set by some "elite" group of members? Who are these elite people?

Anyone that agrees with you is just jumping on the trendy bandwagon. I don't agree or disagree, I don't know what the question is :zombie:

 

[no country for old wainds]

yea right on dying sun! fukin die u stupid jews, ure all retards and you dont understand black metall

^_^

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I completely agree with misfit's post. Back in the days, I remember fans of Cradle Of Filth, nu-metal and such got flamed by people into Emperor and Cryptopsy, for instance. Nowadays, the Emperor and Cryptopsy fans are the ones who get flamed.

It almost seems as if there are some hidden rules on this forum (Far Away From The Sun, Nocturnal Silence, United Aryan Evil and Land Of Frost are vastly superior to everything Exhumed, Emperor, 1349 or Borknagar has ever released, and if you think otherwise you're a retard who's into slam riffs, generic cookie monster vocals, drunken viking vocals, etc etc.) - follow them and be accepted, and if you don't, prepare to be looked upon as a lesser being. Yes, I'm taking it a bit far, but I'm sure you see my point nevertheless.

I agree with the both of you as well. However, I actually did like the Sacramentum and Necrophobic albums you had mentioned(although the Fullmoon sucks dick and I just can't get into it, sorry :'( ), and I really don't think that an elite library of albums has been developed.

Although GoD's post confirms much of what Misfit was alluding to, I would like to take a rare "standing on a soapbox in the spotlight" moment to say that I have not fallen victim to this. It has been hard, and although it's easy for one to call UM just another message board...and due to the impersonal nature of message boards a foolish place to get caught up--I have done just that. My feelings are in this place. Granted, I have a life outside the board, but when I want to talk extreme metal, I come here. Having my feelings hurt when a band I really like is called shit or worthless by someone who thinks they know everything is not a good way to go. It breeds animosity. It causes discomfort. If anyone is laughing right now, I'm sorry, but I take this board seriously. I come here to enjoy myself. Petty arguments only do the opposite. There are no winners. You may 'win,' but all you've done is win an argument over the Internet. When you lose, your feelings are hurt. Arguments on here suck. Nobody wins.

I've had to swallow my feelings and reveal my tastes. I've had to defend my opinions. I will continue to do so, and I encourage anyone else who is feeling oppressed to do the same. A word of caution is that you be intelligent in your rebuttal.

It all boils down to taste. Taste is subjective. Some wholly disagree, but in order for this board to work(and not become anus.com pt.2) is for people to be tolerant of others' tastes. Open your minds. This DOES NOT mean lowering your standards. Your standards mean nothing to the next person. Flaming is pointless and bickering will only result in someone winning GoD's silver padlock award.

You know what, I still like Emperor and Cryptopsy. And I still like In Flames. And I listen to Disturbed and Third Eye Blind. When I turn on the radio, and a Vanessa Carlton song comes on, I'll listen to it. Why? Because that's stuff I like. I couldn't care less about the mainstream-ness of it, or the lack of artistic merit(which is open to interpretation anyway). But, what I have also managed to do was open my mind enough to listen to some more extreme bands as well. Some are good, and some are still bad. To me. Boo-hoo. Oh well.

For instance, The Chasm. They are an excellent example of a good band which I happen to like that I feel is overrated all to hell on this board as of late. That's my opinion. Only because I don't get the same magic out of listening to them that GoD does for instance, does not mean that I think they suck. I just dont find anything special about them. Someone could elaborate and explain, but it won't make much difference. Until I hear it, The Chasm will always be above average to me, as ludicrous as this may seem to some. In retrospect, all the hype for Arsis hit square center with me. They're one of the top 10 death metal bands now. The Arsis Appreciation thread is a testament to how popular they've become as of late. I can totally relate. I think they're amazing.

I suppose the bottom line is that with a little more open-mindedness and biting of tongues at the right time, people will be more willing to reveal their tastes, regardless of what they might be. Many can vouch for me when I say that I have never wavered in the face of Gothenburg-bashing, and I will defend a band I like if it is being unfairly denounced. Hell, I'll vouch for any band that's being unfairly denounced. That's based on my judgement. Everyone should do the same. V.V.V.V.V. made a great step forward where he made a thread about bands that people like, and the thread is a success. Positivity always wins.

If anyone followed that whole shpiel, good for you. Reply if I said anything contradictory or hard to follow. I just woke up an hour ago.

Edit: Just cleaned up the post a bit. Cheers.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Did I mention that I listen to Steeleye Span?

 

[KoichCPA]

I would like to enter this board now, saying, I do in fact like Justin Timberlake.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

I would like to enter this board now, saying, I do in fact like Justin Timberlake.

Well, I don't. But whatever floats your boat is your business. And I'm glad you're able to find enjoyment in something I lack the ability to.

Did I mention that I listen to Steeleye Span?

I don't know who they are, but I'll take that as a band that is most likely not metal, and one you like because you just happen to like them. So \m/.

 

[no country for old wainds]

All around my hat!

Also, shut up Koich.

 

[Focusphere]

This board has too many repetitive "top ten" type of lists. How many times do you need to create a post, just so you can name off your favorite black/death metal albums for at least the 10th or 11th time? Even when people know that it's a waste of time, people will still say things like "Yes, I know this has been done before, but what are your favorite black metal guitarists"!?!?!?! Use the search option, and find an old thread that has the same information.

These list threads keep appearing and i'm afraid are the only thing keeping this board afloat because if people didn't create these threads, there would be nothing else to talk about. Maybe this is a sign that it's time to focus on other important issues as well, like philosophy and life in general.

 

[Under a Stone]

These list threads keep appearing and i'm afraid are the only thing keeping this board afloat because if people didn't create these threads, there would be nothing else to talk about. Maybe this is a sign that it's time to focus on other important issues as well, like philosophy and life in general.

I agree that there needs to be more original topics rather than the over-done and repetitive threads like the ones already mentioned but this is the General Music Discussion Forum, so it probably wouldn’t be appropriate to incite topics on about philosophy, life and the like.

 

[Lies and Perfidy]

I don't really care, although I agree with your post. The only thing that bugs me on this board is that 90% of everyone who posts here don't know jack shit about Power, Traditional, Speed, or Thrash Metal...

Pretty much. I've noticed this sort of "reverse popularity" thing going on, but idiocy has never bothered me unless it walks up and slaps me in the face (metaphorically speaking, of course), so I just ignore it and hope that these people learn to actually appreciate Hell Awaits for the work of genius it is. Then I go back to listening to WASP and Helstar and plan the nerve gas attack on Gaythenburg.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Another bullshit argument in my Slayer thread was whether or not we should list Haunting the Chappel. Why not? It's one of their releases, and it's my opinion that it should be listed. But, somebody had to say "It's not an album, it's only got 3 songs!"