YT: Match EQ and IR Tutorial!

[stuglue]

tutorial using Ozone 5, guy gives credit to Clark as well

 

[FIXXXER]

These IR's are only an EQ curve which is the most important part of guitar tones. Still it doesn't capture dynamics nor room, both of which are highly overrated by guitarists if you ask me.

to me a dry IR track sounds not that good as the same track with a bit of reverb. i do not speak of real big reverb, just a small room mixed about 5-10% to the original track.

dynamics, not sure on this side, sometimes i feel that IR's sound very
"stiff" especially when playing fast single note riffs. listening to some
records the guitars sound as if i am playing them myself, that's awesome...

yesterday i was thinking about an dynamic eq that can be fed with EQ curves, wouldn't this be a good dynamic cab sim, what do you think!?

cheers
S.

 

[Clark Kent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW0_DM7qAEU
tutorial using Ozone 5, guy gives credit to Clark as well

Yup, I've been helping shotgunn get his match EQ process working. He did a cool Metallica clip on the AxeFxForum.

 

[Clark Kent]

to me a dry IR track sounds not that good as the same track with a bit of reverb. i do not speak of real big reverb, just a small room mixed about 5-10% to the original track.

dynamics, not sure on this side, sometimes i feel that IR's sound very
"stiff" especially when playing fast single note riffs. listening to some
records the guitars sound as if i am playing them myself, that's awesome...

yesterday i was thinking about an dynamic eq that can be fed with EQ curves, wouldn't this be a good dynamic cab sim, what do you think!?

cheers
S.

Yeah it depends on what amp sim you're using. TH2 feels like it's got some of that "realness" already modeled so it sounds good as is. Sometimes I'll add some room reverb on tracks but most of the time I don't. It's just a taste issue.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean with a dynamic eq. A multiband compressor with unlimited bands? Seems kinda CPU heavy but I guess that would be a more realistic but I don't think cabs affect the dynamic side that much so it might just be extra work for nothing.

 

[FIXXXER]

Yeah it depends on what amp sim you're using. TH2 feels like it's got some of that "realness" already modeled so it sounds good as is. Sometimes I'll add some room reverb on tracks but most of the time I don't. It's just a taste issue.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean with a dynamic eq. A multiband compressor with unlimited bands? Seems kinda CPU heavy but I guess that would be a more realistic but I don't think cabs affect the dynamic side that much so it might just be extra work for nothing.

nope, i was speaking about, hmm, let's call it dynamic frequency response.
situation: i dial in a balanced and defined tone that's great for fast riffing,
every note cuts. then i play some palm mutes and it sounds just weak.
adding some deeper frequencies makes the palm mutes sound really big but the single notes are flubby and muddy. there's also not a sweet spot in between when using IR's, at elast i didn't find it in the last few years

 

[deffpony]

Im having issues with this. Every tone i get is really airy. The high end/mids are perfect but the lows are ALOT more wrumbly then the actual track. Ozone shows the lows being the same as the original tone but it sounds aweful. I have tried compressing them and/or eq'ing them but if i touch the lows at all it starts to sound like shit. Ive tried everyone amp sim I have Revalver/TH2/GR3/Lecto etc. I would really appreciate some help if possible.

 

[deffpony]

WAAAY ahead of you ;-)

Playing is a touch sloppy, but Match EQ got me excited. I got the template from Reject Yourself, where the guitar is soloed before the first verse. The resulting waveforms look quite different when you take the template from different songs.

Edit: Should say they look different from different songs on the same album.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4855778/KSE tone test match eq.mp3

Tried the EOH tone from When Darkness Falls

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4855778/KSE tone test match eq 2.mp3


I also did some PWD tones too

KWAS http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4855778/KWAS Tone test.mp3

Horizons http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4855778/Tone test 2.mp3

I think the Horizons tone worked the best out them all IMO. What I've found about getting these tones, is that since I now have them I don't really want them anymore The fun was in the chase, as it were.

What amp sim were u using cause i have been failing miserably trying to get this same exact tone

 

[Clark Kent]

nope, i was speaking about, hmm, let's call it dynamic frequency response.
situation: i dial in a balanced and defined tone that's great for fast riffing,
every note cuts. then i play some palm mutes and it sounds just weak.
adding some deeper frequencies makes the palm mutes sound really big but the single notes are flubby and muddy. there's also not a sweet spot in between when using IR's, at elast i didn't find it in the last few years

Real cabinets don't act this way. Cabinets don't have a dynamic character unless they are being run extremely loud so that there's speaker overdrive and that's basically a limiter type of effect and it also affects the tone.

I think what you're describing is all about the amp and settings. IMO good amp settings are the kind that have these both characters in balance. That being said, palm mutes shouldn't have a lot of low end since that's most likely stepping over the bass. I know many people disagree with me. F.ex. I consider Ola's tones a good example of disrespecting the bass player. Don't get me wrong. He has amazing metal guitar tones but personally I love to hear and feel the bass resonance.

 

[Clark Kent]

Im having issues with this. Every tone i get is really airy. The high end/mids are perfect but the lows are ALOT more wrumbly then the actual track. Ozone shows the lows being the same as the original tone but it sounds aweful. I have tried compressing them and/or eq'ing them but if i touch the lows at all it starts to sound like shit. Ive tried everyone amp sim I have Revalver/TH2/GR3/Lecto etc. I would really appreciate some help if possible.

The problem you're having has nothing to do with the amp sim.

Sounds like you're making a mistake somewhere. Are your DAW project settings the same as the Deconvolver settings you're using? If you're having low end problems there might be bass in the track you're matching. Watch out for that... sometimes it's hard to tell if there's bass or not. Also bare in mind that your should match mono tracks where there's only one guitar playing. So if your matching quad-tracked guitars it's most likely impossible to get the exact tone. Those recordings are based on using different tones that sit well together. If you match EQ those tracks you'll get an OK sounding IR but it's not exactly the same thing.

These are all things I thought people would realize by themselves but I keep getting these types of questions so you never know. Although this process is extremely simple it requires that you actually understand what you're doing.

 

[deffpony]

The problem you're having has nothing to do with the amp sim.

Sounds like you're making a mistake somewhere. Are your DAW project settings the same as the Deconvolver settings you're using? If you're having low end problems there might be bass in the track you're matching. Watch out for that... sometimes it's hard to tell if there's bass or not. Also bare in mind that your should match mono tracks where there's only one guitar playing. So if your matching quad-tracked guitars it's most likely impossible to get the exact tone. Those recordings are based on using different tones that sit well together. If you match EQ those tracks you'll get an OK sounding IR but it's not exactly the same thing.

These are all things I thought people would realize by themselves but I keep getting these types of questions so you never know. Although this process is extremely simple it requires that you actually understand what you're doing.

Yea I am positive that I have done everything right. Im using a Parkway drive track that has only one guitar playing. It plays in the left channel. I have converted just that channel to mono. Then I play it by itself where there is absolutely NO bass or cymbals. I get a snapshot of it in OZONE using 16384 filter size. Then I play the same riff almost perfectly the same. Trying to use the same playing techniques to get similar dynamics. I then get a Snapshot of my playing without a cabinet. I have tried it with my track in mono or stereo and it doesnt change anything.

I guess i worded my issue wrong before. The PWD tone has alot of woof that you would normally get from a real cab. It seems like the amp sims are lacking that. Everything about the tone matches perfectly except for the lows. Since the peak of the lows on the original track is being pushed up from that woofy/punch when the IR is applied to my tone it just brings up low end mud. I have tried using a multiband compressor on my track to either expand the lows in a similar fashion or compress them and nothing works.

Any advice would be appreciated. I want to do a cover of the horizons record and the tone Im getting is useless in the mix because of this

 

[Clark Kent]

It could be many things. It's kinda hard to say the exact reason without hearing the clips. Most likely it's just that your amp modeler sounds too different. Different amount of gain maybe? Did you tune your guitar? Is the original guitar track in tune?

Sorry man but I really can't help you.

 

[deffpony]

So I'm still not satisfied with the tones I'm getting. I mean it's close but it's not as close as the tones u guys are. I'm thinking maybe it has something to do with my mono tracks. The guitar riffs I'm trying to emulate are playing in the left channel. I've converted the left channel to mono and no luck. I've also been using ozone with the tracks on loop waiting for the peaks to reach their fullest so that the eq is almost not moving at all when I get a snap shot. I'm gonna upload some clips tonight so hopefully I can get some advice

 

[Clark Kent]

Hey... if there are still some people that aren't impressed with match EQ. I did some clips with my friends over a year ago. I just realized I never posted them here.




At first it's my playing and then the second time it's the original track... not much of a difference although it's a Mesa Recto EQ'd to sound like a Mesa Mark IV in both cases.

 

[deffpony]

Soundos awesome man. Does how u pan the track u play matter. The tones I get sound real close when panned center but when I pan them left or right it's pretty bad

 

[FIXXXER]

Real cabinets don't act this way. Cabinets don't have a dynamic character unless they are being run extremely loud so that there's speaker overdrive and that's basically a limiter type of effect and it also affects the tone.

I think what you're describing is all about the amp and settings. IMO good amp settings are the kind that have these both characters in balance. That being said, palm mutes shouldn't have a lot of low end since that's most likely stepping over the bass. I know many people disagree with me. F.ex. I consider Ola's tones a good example of disrespecting the bass player. Don't get me wrong. He has amazing metal guitar tones but personally I love to hear and feel the bass resonance.

i really doubt that it's amp settings only!
i also do not like bassy/boomy guitars even on palm mutes
still i wish that there was a bit more balls in my tones.
i am using an axe-fx, it has tons of parameters and i almost
tried every single of them. maybe i am wrong but as soon as
it comes to the cab section i start thinking,
oh this sounds not that good.

 

[deffpony]

Still having trouble with this. The low ends seem to be off almost every time. Some tracks sound decent but others are riduculous. Everyone seems to be getting perfect tones and im just getting close. Its even more apparent when i pan the tracks left or right. Heres a vid of what im doing. I would greatly appreciate help. The Idols riff is by far the worst one. Pay attention to the low end. I have tried everything I can think of.

 

[Mm1066]

Still having trouble with this. The low ends seem to be off almost every time. Some tracks sound decent but others are riduculous. Everyone seems to be getting perfect tones and im just getting close. Its even more apparent when i pan the tracks left or right. Heres a vid of what im doing. I would greatly appreciate help. The Idols riff is by far the worst one. Pay attention to the low end. I have tried everything I can think of.

If the only problem you're having is that you're getting too much low end whilst input monitoring surely you could just use a high pass filter?

 

[deffpony]

I've tried a high pass filter in various locations in the chain. The same goes for a multiband compressor. If I squashe the lows the match eq just brings it back up. And if I try and tame the tone after ozone it just doesnt have any body to it

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

I've tried a high pass filter in various locations in the chain. The same goes for a multiband compressor. If I squashe the lows the match eq just brings it back up. And if I try and tame the tone after ozone it just doesnt have any body to it

I think i might be going through the same thing as you. First of all what interface are you using? i'm using a saffire pro24 (instrument input). I actually just ordered a countryman di box i'm waiting for it to arrive. I listened to a comparison found on the forum and i noticed the di using a dibox had much better clarity. Anyways i noticed that for me to get an even more identical tone i have to treat 200-300hz really careful. I practically have to suck it all out. But i have to be careful not to lose too much power. I do these either by subtraction eq or using c4 with the any sneap settings. Instead of 65-281 as in the andy sneap setting i use something different usually around 200-300. i noticed this made it less boomy/air-y. I too noticed that after i have a near 99% tone when i play around w that tone the notes sound really thick, are you getting that too?

 

[deffpony]

Yes that's exactly what I'm getting. I have tried to tame the lows and low mid area but it either does nothing or affects the tone negatively. I feel like the issue is that most of the tones I'm trying to get have a punchy sound to them, giving them a good low end wood without the resonance. This in turn raises the peak low end signal that ozone picks up. Theoretically a band compressor in the trouble freqs should help. But no luck.

Using ESP MH-1000 with emg running through an m-audio fast track pro