2008 Political debate thread

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I think a lot of people are generalizing. Not all politicians are slaves to religion. Most in fact are slaves to lobbyists and corporations.

AndTimeBegan, Yes, another thread. I would have a great deal to say about your claims, as I believe they are unfounded.
 
razoredge said:
'
This post was bullshit and all the backpedaling does not translate the above into this :



The entire post is out of line, the post you referenced and responded with mouthfuls of shit that said nothing was about school systems in general and that they feel the need to teach our children about same sex sex. It been a long running joke that sex ed has even needed to be taught in schools for the past 40 years, today its beyond a joke. HOWEVER today with all the attention whoring, drama, political correctness and general ball assed wankery, we are spending time and money "teaching" bullsit that everyone already knows all about while other aspect of education and social structure fall to shit.

Not that I mean to point attention whoreing or failure to focus on important matters toward your posts... or anything.....
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I couldn't agree more... And while ATB is on my ignore list for posts like this, I unfortunately have to deal with them here. Because ABQ likes beer, and is very knowledgable about it makes him a borderline addict? GMAFB! Consider yourself warned for a personal attack, ATB. If this discussion remains civil, it will continue. If not, the thread will be closed, and people WILL be banned.

How many people here, young or old, leaned anything from Sex Ed class?
(not including medical terminology)
Young or old, sex is about one's own personal behavior. If any parent thinks that just because a teacher, a nun, a priest, or a cleric, says something about sex, and their kids will blindy adhere to it, has got a lot to learn about being a parent. Catch an STD, get someone pregnant? Welcome to the REAL world, and welcome to being accountable for the decisions YOU make... No school related education, no matter how early on, is going to make things "better"


Beelzebub said:
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You've said much worse around here, and I was surprised you weren't banned for it. Chill.
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I don't recall anywhere where razor made a personal attack on any poster.
Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd like to discuss this...
 
:lol: It's the most convenient. Bad resources or not, he's still an ass hat.

Besides, there are links to the CNN news articles and the actual amendment he proposed. I don't think it would be a good idea to take Wikipedia article verbatim. It just has a long list of sources together.
 
How many people here, young or old, leaned anything from Sex Ed class?
(not including medical terminology)
Young or old, sex is about one's own personal behavior. If any parent thinks that just because a teacher, a nun, a priest, or a cleric, says something about sex, and their kids will blindy adhere to it, has got a lot to learn about being a parent. Catch an STD, get someone pregnant? Welcome to the REAL world, and welcome to being accountable for the decisions YOU make... No school related education, no matter how early on, is going to make things "better"
Click to expand...
Actually, I did. My parents never went really in-depth with respect to types of birth control and contraception, and I wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for the sex education I got. Does this make them bad parents? Not at all. Some parents don't even discuss these matters at all which is even worse. As I've said, the education I received wasn't full of false stereotypes about going blind from masturbation, etc. Students respond to facts, not old wives' tales. The knowledge I got has obviously worked to my advantage since I've never gotten pregnant and I don't have any STDs.
 
J-Dubya 777 said:
How many people here, young or old, leaned anything from Sex Ed class?
(not including medical terminology)
Young or old, sex is about one's own personal behavior. If any parent thinks that just because a teacher, a nun, a priest, or a cleric, says something about sex, and their kids will blindy adhere to it, has got a lot to learn about being a parent. Catch an STD, get someone pregnant? Welcome to the REAL world, and welcome to being accountable for the decisions YOU make... No school related education, no matter how early on, is going to make things "better"
Click to expand...

I did. I've never had sex without a condom, and I certainly can't attribute that to anything other than 10 grade health class. I wasn't clueless, but not everyone has social structures that teach the basics of life and many parents are too timid to do it themselves. We learned about safe sex in many ways I'd never heard of (female condoms, oral protection, and etc.) from someone actually afflicted with HIV. When he said, "I expect to live for at least 10 more years." - that made an impression on me. Someone on here said that sex education takes away from other more important studies...It takes one period during one day - what a terrible waste of time. :rolleyes:

I'd like to know what people think should be taught in schools. All I keep seeing are cynics that blast public education for wasting time teaching Bible hating, homosexuality, and etc most of which are myths anyways.
 
I play guitar because of Health class. It was so boring that my friends and I sat in the back and sketched shit in our notebooks, culminating in the dare/egg of genius that we should start a band. Thank you health class. That was all I learned.
 
Also about abstinence, it's great for teenagers. You don't know what the fuck you're getting into (literally.) But after a certain point, when you've got your head on straight, you're just missing out.
 
Beelzebub said:
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You've said much worse around here, and I was surprised you weren't banned for it. Chill.

Moving on with the debate, I think sex education is incredibly important. When I had it, it was never "these are gay people and this is how you can be gay," and I don't think it ever will be. At the school I went to, parents could either consent to us having it or not, and the kids who didn't just had a study hall. No big deal. In a time where STDs are rampant and unwanted pregnancies are on the rise, sex education is necessary to help prevent these. Abstinence-only sex education doesn't work either. Girls who are taught that are more likely to partake in unprotected non-intercourse sexual activities, which also puts them at risk for STDs.
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Yes I hear ya, I am very radical and outspoken of my feelings on reactions to actions or visa versa. However as JD mentioned I was talking about the personal attack, calling someone a bigot, borderline addict and comments about how ones child should get away from them. Thats bazaar shit no ? Not to mention how badly it reaked of immaturity. Chances are ABQ's children will be more solid than others raised in the bleeding heart liberal & distracted public school systems... just guessing. ABQ said nothing demeaning about gay, the whole thing was in regards to whats taught in schools... it had nothing to do with any type of person. Im uncomfortable around too much gayism, doesnt make me a bigot, just human. I have stories of my tolerance being pushed way to hard, things like this can change you.

Similiar your interpreting my views on immigration as having anything to do with race. I simply believe our country is full and enough is enough. After all this is the only country its a problem with, people arent rushing into other countries as they are here and most other countries dont want the flood either and are actually far more racially inclinded than we Americans and that would be countries/peoples of countries that are in such a big hurry to get here as well. I have stories about that too, that freaked me the fuck out, for the life of me I could not figure out why I was being called what I was being called and fortunantly I had people from the same ethnics as my verbal attackers telling them to shut the fuck up... I had done nothing. So seriously....

You got me on the STD's, I was totally disregarding that and only thinking of the joke it was when our poor sex ed teacher was telling us about things we already knew all about and had done, infact above and beyond. But they were different times and I will admit to my having allowed myself to become distracted by a totally different time than today. Still we knew how gays went about their perversions and didnt need to learn about that either. We had gays, one dude was on our wrestling team, all through highschool no problems, I even considered him a friend, he was however responsible for the disappearence of my Magnatone MP3 guitar amp... because as a friend I lent it to him.... bummer. We even had a lesbian social teacher, it was more than obvious and she openly had a female housemate... no biggy, no drama, no ed needed, no conversation needed.

If any of you doubters actually knew me you would love me... lol, Im a big mush when Im not aggrevated, but still always to the point when need be and its the years that have done this, I was a gigantic smiley dork of a pushover when young, liberal to the core till I began to see the results. I would be the one to stop or step in if people were not treated with respect. In fact my views and statements about my concern for the economic condition of the entire population of this country should be more than ample proof.
Just because I want the stinkin fithly rich DEAD and their money used to pay off our debt... doesnt make me a bad ass, just a modern day Robin Hood
 
Beelzebub said:
Actually, I did. My parents never went really in-depth with respect to types of birth control and contraception, and I wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for the sex education I got. Does this make them bad parents? Not at all. Some parents don't even discuss these matters at all which is even worse. As I've said, the education I received wasn't full of false stereotypes about going blind from masturbation, etc. Students respond to facts, not old wives' tales. The knowledge I got has obviously worked to my advantage since I've never gotten pregnant and I don't have any STDs.
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This surprises me, we knew all about that stuff by the time we were 12 or 13 and that was the early 70's in my case. I dont actually know whats going on today but in the 70's girls could go to planned parenthood and get the pill, typically their mothers took them and their fathers did not know. People have got to realize fathers are a tuff call on this one, they just dont want ANY dickhead touching thier daughters... ya see we actually know way too much in this respect... we are fully aware that males/boys/men are dickheads... each and everyone of them... its called first hand experinece. lol

We were not told in the 70's that we would go blind from masterbation... we were told that would happen from looking up girls dresses..... lol. Seriously that certain part of your comment is the actual wives tale, I think that dates back far earlier in the century.

I will admit however that my generation is responsible for the wide spred herpes virus, most people that got it, had it before they ever heard of it... fact ! Aids is another story but it was the same results, it was rampant before anyone caught on.

Our innocence was good as we simple believe we could not "get it" but would try with no success until we fell "in love" even then it was not easy... however our ignorance led to these other problems by the time we were extremely promiscuous in our 20's.
 
DoomsdayZach said:
such as pulling out is not a valid form of birth control... that sounds like a "well duh" statement but it's surprising how many people don't know this)
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While I wont suggest "trying it at home" my ex and I did this successfully for 18 years, as being on the pill made her sick. But some guys are leakers or lack control and fall victim to their passions at the last most crucial second... lol... too much info... I know... but hey... this is SX sex ed... and far superior to tax paid public textbook BS... lol

With another girlfriend we successfully applied the rhythm method, there is only a few crutial days or maybe it was a week, but you actually have to keep a calender

Condoms are still the best bet because even if its your partner you cant be 100% sure on the diseases unless you've been together years and are sure that monogamy has been practiced.
 
Burnout said:
My issue is with politicians making decisions that are informed by their religious beliefs and hindering scientific progress in the process. I'm not saying all decisions informed by religious values are necessarily negative, but when it hinders progress because a politician feels like imposing their religiously informed morality on the rest of society, I take issue.

Beyond that, they can believe whatever they want to believe, just remain objective and don't assume the value set provided by your faith is universal.

There are a lot of real issues that get bogged down and hidden by unnecessary discussion of trivialities, but that isn't necessarily always the case and I don't think religion is chiefly responsible for any kind of distraction like that.

I think a lot of people are either uneducated, apathetic, or notably misinformed on a lot of issues. How you motivate three-hundred million people to do anything is beyond me, although kicking them all in the wallet simultaneously seems to get their attention. :lol:
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OK I agree except that I personally dont care about genetic science applied to human birth... or religion.

Still, your going to have politicians that lean toward some backbone, be it religion, military, stock options, or as Ken pointed out corporate and other high pressure groups that funded your sickeningly expensive campaign. So you have to weigh this out and as I've said many times I'll trust a religious man further than most... but I guess Bushy poo kinda destroyed that theory... but I say he is a poser.
 
Beelzebub said:
Actually, I did. My parents never went really in-depth with respect to types of birth control and contraception, and I wouldn't have known about it if it weren't for the sex education I got. Does this make them bad parents? Not at all. Some parents don't even discuss these matters at all which is even worse. As I've said, the education I received wasn't full of false stereotypes about going blind from masturbation, etc. Students respond to facts, not old wives' tales. The knowledge I got has obviously worked to my advantage since I've never gotten pregnant and I don't have any STDs.
Click to expand...



fullnelson said:
I did. I've never had sex without a condom, and I certainly can't attribute that to anything other than 10 grade health class. I wasn't clueless, but not everyone has social structures that teach the basics of life and many parents are too timid to do it themselves. We learned about safe sex in many ways I'd never heard of (female condoms, oral protection, and etc.) from someone actually afflicted with HIV. When he said, "I expect to live for at least 10 more years." - that made an impression on me. Someone on here said that sex education takes away from other more important studies...It takes one period during one day - what a terrible waste of time. :rolleyes:

I'd like to know what people think should be taught in schools. All I keep seeing are cynics that blast public education for wasting time teaching Bible hating, homosexuality, and etc most of which are myths anyways.
Click to expand...

@Yas: I thought about the birth control thing while out mowing the lawn. :)
I went to a Catholic grade school for 1st thru 7th grade, so, although I knew masturbation wouldn't make me go blind (I'm still the only person in my family who doesn't wear glasses or contacts - lol) Sex without procreation wasn't being addressed at that time, due to the religious structure of the education program. We did get to see slides of ALL kinds of diseases, but it was abstinence that was taught instead of birth control. I had the birds/bees talk with both parents who were hardly timid about it at least 2 years before my class in school.

@FullNelson: Good on ya for the non-condomless sex. :headbang:
When Sex Ed was taught in my gradeschool, HIV hadn't hit society in the US
yet, so maybe my view is more of a generational thing. I still remember the GIANT blood culture draws the did on me when I had pneumonia in 1981. I wondered WTF tests were being done with those "tubes". It was then my doctor informed me about a new disease (HIV), and they were testing EVERYONE with pneumonia by rote. Again, this was before HIV became a big deal here. As for what should be taught in school, you'd have to define at what level before I could give an honest answer. Depends on the grade level. :)

Thanks for a CIVIL discussion on this matter.
 
Kenneth R. said:
Can we split or clean up this thread? We've got politics, religion, and sex ed.
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Agreed. If the education subject needs to be discussed further, please start a new thread. Full out religious discussion is a banned topic, IIRC, so we'll let that one go. I don't think anyone has violated any rules with the discussion so far, but religion as well as poiitics usually brings out the worst in people.
 
I'll start a new thread about education and other related issues I wanted to address and let this one continue down sexy lane.

I don't understand the need for extensive legislation and such about sex. It seems to me that by being very selective of who you partner with, and how many (fewer ie. 1 is/are better), you eliminate nearly all problems. Couple that with open and honest communication, and all problems, including STDs, are eradicated. If you discuss the potential pitfalls openly, you and your partner can easily avoid them and enjoy sex more. Condoms are great, but not a necessity in my opinion. It depends on the people and situation. For some, a certain degree of self control eliminates their need. Self control and the aforementioned sticking-with-one-person. The guys here will probably cry out "But I want to orgasm too!" Well again, communication. Maybe she wants you to blow it in her ass. Maybe in her mouth. Maybe you both agree to use a condom and do it that way.
As for STDs, again if you talk to your partner beforehand about what they may or may not have, that can give a good heads up for later. It all comes down to talking and self control in my opinion. As for understanding how sex works, that *should* be a parental discussion, but if it is not, with a partner it becomes obvious quick enough with again the right communication. The only real phrases I could offer for education are "don't do it until you understand the significance" and "don't do it unless you are perfectly comfortable naked in full view of the person, lights on." That pretty much rules out mistakes.
 
Gee Ken, I was about to appoligize for my many long tanginal posts then I read your last one... talk about too much info, lol

I dont see the problem with the topic as a whole so far, these all came up in the ponderance of politics, though they got out of control they were relevant... at one time. Somehow all fitting into the education matter. Now everyones all educated.

So hows that job market cuming ?
 
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