2008 Political debate thread

[ABQShredHead]

You're just being belligerant now, Ken.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I probably am.

Killing the rich would be a good solution. Except some of them are nice.

 

[razoredge]

yeah I know, thats the bitch of the whole thing... all the blood and stuff. No alot of them just hit it right, but so many others have it off the back of others and all those money scams and wall street bullshit has me so pissed off. Ya know, we go from patriotism to fuck that theres gobs of money to be made explioting cheap labor from thrird world countries so fuck America... we'll call it globalization.... it will save us a fortune in vaseline.

 

[ABQShredHead]

I have zero against the rich, personally. I aspire to be one of them one day. I'm hoping sooner rather than later.

 

[rockyracoon]

Removing needless programs from the federal government, rather than adding more, can go a long way to reducing our taxes.

Always interesting when this is suggested or implemented. Typically results in the elimination of social programs the rich have no use for.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Why, because they got off their asses and worked for a living, or made smart decisions during their lifetimes to garner wealth? Or were fortunate enough to have an ancestor who did so?

I'm not at all against helping those who truly need it. My experience in life has shown me that not as many people truly need the help as we currently pay for.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

I'm not at all against helping those who truly need it. My experience in life has shown me that not as many people truly need the help as we currently pay for.

People are lazy. This is true. That doesn't mean that we should cut programs that help those that actually need help. But in essence, I'm in agreement with you on this topic.

 

[rockyracoon]

It's a tough pill to swallow when the rich are determining just exactly "who" really "needs" help.


I'm curious to see how the "needs" of millions and millions of baby-boomers are handled when many realize their retirements aren't gonna be quite as cushy as they thought.

 

[ABQShredHead]

We all have the ability to make decisions to prepare for our futures.

To that end, rocky, do you feel it is right that we should be paying money into Social Security for our own security past retirement age only to have that money usurped by illegal immigrants and people who are too lazy to do more than extend their hand to the government?

Zach, as I said, I'm all for helping those who need help. Programs should be revamped to ensure the money is going where it needs to go.

 

[rockyracoon]

To that end, rocky, do you feel it is right that we should be paying money into Social Security for our own security past retirement age only to have that money usurped by illegal immigrants and people who are too lazy to do more than extend their hand to the government?

Honestly, I see Social Security as a dinosaur. It's an outdated program that was designed when people clearly didn't predict things would turn out how they have. Regardless, I don't think the failures/shortcomings of Social Security are the cause of illegal immigrants.


In the end, for me, it comes down to a generation that's gonna need to step up and take one for the team. What I mean is that for years folks have contributed to SS and then gotten something back. Well it's clear now that a lot of us are gonna pay into something without getting anything in return. I am fine with that.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Social Security needs to end. What a horrible program. It does not actually DO what it's supposed to do, and ends up as a sort of handout for the lazy in later life.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Social Security needs to end. What a horrible program. It does not actually DO what it's supposed to do, and ends up as a sort of handout for the lazy in later life.

Ever take a look at how much is taken out of a paycheck? I've been working since I was 13 (obviously not full time!), when my turn comes for *my* share of the handout that I've been paying into the majority of my life, there better be something there. That goes for my generation, as well as those that follow. If they "end" it, there better some kind of payout to those who have contributed. I base a lot of my anger at society as well as the government.
When I was struggling prior to 2004-5, I didn't even qualify for fucking food stamps. I'd have been happy with a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk, and a brick of cheese. Yet the illegals who keep on popping out kids are in the grocery store paying for a cart full of food with their WIC and/or foodstamps. Fuck that, you want handouts, stand in line for sterilization. If that's too harsh, have any more kids, and you're cut off from the program(s) (as they should not even be eligible in the first place) & deported. I'm sick & fucking tired of pouring my hard earned money into support systems that weren't or might not be there for me the ONE fucking time I needed them. I want my handout, I'm not taking one blindly for the team. JMHFO...

 

[Kenneth R.]

The problem is even if they continue to take from our paychecks, there's not enough to go around cause the government wastes the money. So best of luck to you and no hope at all for me. If anything, SS should be OPTIONAL. Abolished would be better yet.

 

[ABQShredHead]

HELL YES, JDub! You go!

And I don't see it as your "handout" - it's money you put into the system to begin with, and myriad others who put nothing into the system are stealing that money.

 

[rockyracoon]

Ever take a look at how much is taken out of a paycheck? I've been working since I was 13 (obviously not full time!), when my turn comes for *my* share of the handout that I've been paying into the majority of my life, there better be something there. That goes for my generation, as well as those that follow. If they "end" it, there better some kind of payout to those who have contributed. I base a lot of my anger at society as well as the government.
When I was struggling prior to 2004-5, I didn't even qualify for fucking food stamps. I'd have been happy with a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk, and a brick of cheese. Yet the illegals who keep on popping out kids are in the grocery store paying for a cart full of food with their WIC and/or foodstamps. Fuck that, you want handouts, stand in line for sterilization. If that's too harsh, have any more kids, and you're cut off from the program(s) (as they should not even be eligible in the first place) & deported. I'm sick & fucking tired of pouring my hard earned money into support systems that weren't or might not be there for me the ONE fucking time I needed them. I want my handout, I'm not taking one blindly for the team. JMHFO...

Years ago the popular scapegoats were the black, inner-city crack momma's who all had 9 kids and were living high on the hog on the taxpayer's dime. Now, it's the illegal immigrants who are to blame. In most cases the dent these demographics make overall(regarding exploiting social programs) is just a drop in the bucket. Sure, you wanna park yourself somewhere close to the Mexican border then the impact can be more strongly felt. But honestly imo, it's just too convenient to blame the illegal immigrants for illegally pursuing food, healthcare, etc. How can you fault someone trying to survive? Well, I don't. Instead, I fault the U.S. government who turns 2 blind eyes to the problem of border control. Illegal immigrants are borderline encouraged to come here by our government. How else do you explain the blatant lack of attention to the issue? U.S. border control is joke.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Once again, see my post about getting many on one bus and trying to drive that bus in one direction.

And I'm quite close to the problem myself. I like the idea of our militia patroling the borders, myself. Won't cost the government a dime.

And really, though your argument is deflective, it pretty much supports exactly what JDub is saying. And if our own Social Security system cannot support the "needs" of our society, what program do you propose to do so? More taxes into social programs that continue paying to those who add nothing to the program?

Or, can we get a program better suited to getting people out of laziness and adding value to our society (again, I'm fully aware there are people who really need help and cannot help themselves)? "We'll give you x foodstamps for y amount of work" with work defined as furthering one's education, labor, etc. Sitting in front of the TV and smoking pack after pack of cigarettes does not warrant a payment in foodstamps.

 

[Kenneth R.]

HELL YES, JDub! You go!

And I don't see it as your "handout" - it's money you put into the system to begin with, and myriad others who put nothing into the system are stealing that money.

Exactly the problem with it. I'm basically being forced to give away money with every paycheck.

 

[ABQShredHead]

As you would with more government programs requiring higher taxes, no?

 

[rockyracoon]

And if our own Social Security system cannot support the "needs" of our society, what program do you propose to do so? More taxes into social programs that continue paying to those who add nothing to the program?

Precisely! Programs that target disadvantaged youth, the disabled, the mentally ill, etc. Or, is that a waste of money since they add nothing to the program.

We can debate SS forever, but the reality is that it's just one program. And frankly, those who plan on relying on SS to retire on are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Kenneth R.]

As you would with more government programs requiring higher taxes, no?

At least if that's the case, assuming the programs are actually functional, I wouldn't be as perturbed.