The best are those that die with their boots on and show some grit as they take the bullit. They also save the trial cost and aid in the already overwhelmed judicial system... although there is no doubt large lawsuits by surviving relatives. Slap me silly.
2008 Political debate thread
- Thread starter scanner313
- Start date
- Status
noble savage
Member
I would never stick up for any of the whack jobs who murder their entire family. It's completely beyond my ability to even think about how someone could do such a thing, but all I am saying is WHY is it better to kill them?
It takes a conscious decision to pull the trigger on another person, whether it be an actual gun or chemicals administered by a person in a jail with a license to do so . I don't understand how the person in the white lab coat is any less guilty of murder than the criminal. It is still one person killing another.
Yes, I agree but not with the "killing or murder" part, its execution, a penalty for sick crimes, a deterrent, an example, a consiquence, a culling, a banishment, a shunning and an awesome savings of money, fossil fuels, food, oxygen and water. Its been years since I heard the per inmate annual cost of a prisoner so I can't give it but it was huge back then, something like 3 times what I make annually per year now (which hasnt changed) or slighly more than the average "worthy" contributor to society makes. Even when I was more liberal or more of a concerned bleeding heart, I never opposed the death penalty as I always felt it is just. The view of it not being ours to pass judgment or condemn is more of the Christian belief. We are really easy on rotten people today compared to the rest of human history, I personally dont think thats progress.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
The death penalty is pointless. I love that the same people who support it are also pro-life. I'm giggling.
noble savage
Member
Good point! I was actually going to mention that, but I don't really feel like arguing about abortion!
noble savage
Member
It is one person slipping a needle into another persons arm and killing him. Yes, "its execution, a penalty for sick crimes, a deterrent, an example, a consiquence, a culling, a banishment, a shunning" it's also state sanctioned murder! One man may have murdered another man out of rage, but how is a group of people getting together and deciding that, in return, that man will die not more disgusting and immoral then the situation in which it first arose? Is saving money on taxes really worth killing someone over?
Look guys, I'm not a tree hugging liberal (Or any type of liberal for that matter), but I really want to question why, even when presented with extraordinary circumstances, you could just shrug off someones life as if it was less valuable than your own.
What emotion does it tickle when you here that someone was executed? Joy? Satisfaction? Closure?
I'm not trying to come off as an asshole or anything, but I really am curious.
A murderer's life IS less valuable than my own. Let's consider that statement (whether it's said by me or anyone else) by itself...forget about the death penalty for a moment. Are you saying you would disagree with that?
A big part of it is deciding how we are going to define murderer....for me, the connotation of the word is a bit more important than a bare-bones definition of "one guy who ends the life of another guy"
A big part of it is deciding how we are going to define murderer....for me, the connotation of the word is a bit more important than a bare-bones definition of "one guy who ends the life of another guy"
Vacant_Planets
Queen Nicole
True, also it deters no crime, saves no money. The only point it makes is that the offender will never....and we mean never....do it again.
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
Same here!
That's what the law, the judge who tries the case, & usually a jury have to come to terms with. It's an assurance that said crimes will never be comitted again by the individual. If there was no threat of execution, there would be more murders, and more inmates incarcerated for life. For certain offenses, IMO, there is NO place in society (even jail!) for some perps. And yes, I do not want to support some child murderer, or child fucker (for example) for the rest of their lives.
Look guys, I'm not a tree hugging liberal (Or any type of liberal for that matter), but I really want to question why, even when presented with extraordinary circumstances, you could just shrug off someones life as if it was less valuable than your own.
What emotion does it tickle when you here that someone was executed? Joy? Satisfaction? Closure?
I'm not trying to come off as an asshole or anything, but I really am curious.
I can shrug it off easily. I'm obviously no liberal, nor am I a fan of organized religion (Catholic by birth, agnostic by choice). I think I mentioned this here before, some know, some don't. My Godmother (also a first cousin) was beaten to a pulp, stuffed in the trunk of her car, shot twice in the head by 2 off duty "dirty" Illinois state cops, and her & her car dumped into the Cal-Sag canal in the Southern Chicago suburbs. She was a missing persons case until an insurance scam investigation caused the canal to be searched. Her husband, a millionaire criminal attorney, was upset at her because she wanted to leave his on & off abuse. He did not get the death penalty, but he did die in prison. I wish he WAS executed, but it was at least a joy to know that he spent the rest of his life away from his mansion, his money, and his underworld buddies. I guess what I'm trying to show as an example here is sometimes it takes something like this to hit you close to home before you understand completely. It's easy to sit on the fence and attempt to judge, but when it happens within your own family, you may gain a different perspective. Yes, I felt joy & closure when I heard he died. I felt horrible for their young daughter, but even worse for what she had to grow up with, hanging over her head. So yes, joy, satisfaction, & elation.
Im another pro death to scum bags and pro choice
Anyone concerned with putting someone to death can pass the job duty to me, if that will clear anyones conscience. Its nothing less than war as far as Im concerned, some people are at war against other people, society and there needs to be consequences for this. How much human life can be of value when so many value others so little ?
------------------------------------------------
Brutal situation there JD, DAMN !
Anyone concerned with putting someone to death can pass the job duty to me, if that will clear anyones conscience. Its nothing less than war as far as Im concerned, some people are at war against other people, society and there needs to be consequences for this. How much human life can be of value when so many value others so little ?
------------------------------------------------
Brutal situation there JD, DAMN !
noble savage
Member
Excellent point! And I'm sorry to hear about that, going through that must have been horrible.
I can't say I have ever experienced anything even remotely close to that, so maybe I don't have the right perspective on the issue. However, I hope to never be presented with a situation where that's the case!
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Yeah, and I have no need to defend my opinion of how asinine the death penalty is. For what crime is it not only ok, but correct for humanity to decide someone else has no right to live? There just is no justified answer to that.
ABQShredHead
©1970
There is plenty of justification, Ken. Criminal minds will not be rehabilitated in a prison environment - they will merely become sicker. In heinous crimes such as these, they should be removed from society. And I do not say that because I find joy in killing them - I am completely unemotional about their deaths. I am not unemotional about the crimes they have committed though. In the instance I posted, every one of those people convicted of this heinous crime had increasingly sick criminal forays on their rap sheets. This ultimate act they committed was a clear build up of sickness, clearly not rehabilitated in our prison system; rather, they were sent back into our society after "serving their time" for past offences. And now look at the results. A woman died a most horrible death (I can think of little worse than burning to death) at the hands of a sick gang bent on appeasing their own pleasure mechanisms.
Humanity has not decided someone else has the right to live - they have made their decisions based on their actions. They themselves have scorned humanity by torturing, brutalizing, raping, and burning and absolutely innocent woman to death. What good will come of them "rotting in a jail cell" other than adding more to an already overcrowded system and usurping valuable State money (money raised by the taxes I and my fellow New Mexicans are paying)?
And, yes, I am absolutely pro-life. And I do not hold religion as my example. I hold it as accountability for one's actions. As I hold the death penalty as well.
Humanity has not decided someone else has the right to live - they have made their decisions based on their actions. They themselves have scorned humanity by torturing, brutalizing, raping, and burning and absolutely innocent woman to death. What good will come of them "rotting in a jail cell" other than adding more to an already overcrowded system and usurping valuable State money (money raised by the taxes I and my fellow New Mexicans are paying)?
And, yes, I am absolutely pro-life. And I do not hold religion as my example. I hold it as accountability for one's actions. As I hold the death penalty as well.
+1 to most of that....
But with the pro-life thing....I get the whole accountability argument (and agree), but what about in instances of rape? Given that I've never heard a rape victim who ended up pregnant say, "well...wasn't in the mood for that, but at least I get a kid out of it, hooray!", I would consider the denial of abortion to such a person to be a case of punishing the victim.
But with the pro-life thing....I get the whole accountability argument (and agree), but what about in instances of rape? Given that I've never heard a rape victim who ended up pregnant say, "well...wasn't in the mood for that, but at least I get a kid out of it, hooray!", I would consider the denial of abortion to such a person to be a case of punishing the victim.
So if I'm walking down the street and get mugged at gunpoint, then decide to pull out my knife and kill the guy...it would be asinine? Or what if, to defend a loved one, I'm forced to take someone else's life? Would both be immoral? Or (and I'm not attempting to assume this about you, just wondering how you view the same issue in a different context) do you consider it an issue wherein having to deal with the immediate threat upon my own life (or another's) makes it ok, but solving the problem in a court room months or years after the fact or to prevent such a situation from happening ever again is still wrong?
ABQShredHead
©1970
Yeah, gotcha on the rape thing, Drew. It's a tough area for sure. Let's say abortion was prohibited in the future, except in the case of a rape. Would we then account for that by saying if a rape occurred, aborting the fetus is legitimate? I can then see plenty of lines forming where rape is claimed, but is that merely a claim issued only to have an abortion or because it did happen? Perhaps a morning after pill for any reported rapes would then be a work around, or something similar along those lines.
And, per Ken's statement, you would not be correct in deciding that person mugging you should die. You should really know better than to be walking down the street in the first place.
And, per Ken's statement, you would not be correct in deciding that person mugging you should die. You should really know better than to be walking down the street in the first place.
squidfetish
Member
I wonder what proportion of people (generally) who are against the death penalty on grounds of morality are also against the deaths of over a million people in Iraq? It's also noticeable that many of the pro-lifers/anti-abortionists don't have the same qualms about taking adult life. The paradox (if we can call it that) is noticeable over here in dear old England too.
ABQShredHead
©1970
I wouldn't call it a paradox at all, really. An unborn baby cannot make its own decisions. He/she is as innocent as innocent can be. It's life is ended typically to cover up a mistake by the parents of the child. A criminal is put to death because of a decision he/she made that was beyond society's acceptable limits of heinousness. War between nations is something that will never end, and diversity in thought and beliefs pretty much ensures that war will never end.
In addition to the rape scenerio, we really dont need more babies in the world than the current rate and that is questionable, and certainly not unwanted ones. Having sex is NOT a mistake, a young girl need not become a mother if she so chooses and that also comes under strong advice with our current economics where a couple needs two incomes from college graduate level. Then at times a young man becomes a father when he did not choose to be through entrapment. Adoption by social climbers that were selfish about such and their careers until they were in their 40's and then decide suddenly as a knee jerk reaction of being too late are NOT good cantidates for parents so that excuse is just that. The fetus in the womb at or below the legal age is unaware and can be and is duplicated at an alarming rate. At one time parents lost more children than lived. We have grave yards full of them from the 1800's & early 1900's. Then there is the issues with mental handicaps and out of control "families" that just dont have a clue and are neglectful in many if not all aspects. There are better ways to make a boy and girl think about the consequences of premature pregnacy than forcing them to become parents for cluelessly having sex. Again I find it interesting that some embrace human life and yet dont give two hoots about the things that effect the quality of it, so long as they cant see it from their house.
- Status
