2008 Political debate thread

[Iced Dog]

Whoever gets elected, I'll be concerned about their health. McCain because of his age (and the Palin prospect )...and Obama, well, I feel like the Secret Service better be on their game.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I should have put money in the market yesterday. But you know, I don't gamble ever.

 

[_Wes]

My 401 went from -26% to only -17%!!

Isn't this grand. . .

 

[ABQShredHead]

I think, Zach, that Palin has been misportrayed by the media. I think she's very well grounded in solid beliefs, beliefs I hold as my own. She has leadership experience, which, in my mind, none of the other three people involved actually has. She has led from the Executive. The other three are all Senators, which history has proven typically struggle in the Executive branch, and one of which has less than two years experience even in that role. And her knowledge of the Constitution vastly surpasses that of Mr. Biden from the performances in the debate. Obama/Biden have the secular, liberal media on their side, and as such they are ahead in the polls due to unwarranted promotion of their ideals.

This election, in my mind, will once again hinge on the vote of the "silent majority"; but, I'm still fearful that this majority may be blind to the issues inherent in the Dem ticket due to such media involvement in the race. I do see this as a very pivotal time in future American history, and I fear it may be a dark history if the Dems win. A Dem Executive paired with a Dem Legislature with our current (what I will call) un-American issues at play will damn us significantly and push our country toward European socialism and pushing us toward potential anarchistic behaviors (the very large push from the left currently to basically allow every individual to feel free to do whatever that individual wishes to do, irrespective of the impact on and the rights of others).

 

[Swabs]

I don't see why America is so afraid of "socialism". What you refer to as "European Socialism" is quite possibly the reason that we have a significantly better quality of life over here. It's not communism, we're just as capitalist as America, the only difference is our governments actually attempt to help their people.

 

[noble savage]

Well, our government tries to have sex with us. Kind of the same thing, I guess.

 

[Ascension]

I think, Zach, that Palin has been misportrayed by the media. I think she's very well grounded in solid beliefs, beliefs I hold as my own. She has leadership experience, which, in my mind, none of the other three people involved actually has. She has led from the Executive. The other three are all Senators, which history has proven typically struggle in the Executive branch, and one of which has less than two years experience even in that role. And her knowledge of the Constitution vastly surpasses that of Mr. Biden from the performances in the debate. Obama/Biden have the secular, liberal media on their side, and as such they are ahead in the polls due to unwarranted promotion of their ideals.

+1...without doubt.

This election, in my mind, will once again hinge on the vote of the "silent majority";

Just like the owner of the company l work with told me the other day...Never underestimate the "angry white man" vote.

 

[ABQShredHead]

We're not Europe. Our country, as young as it may be, was founded under very different principles many of which are reactions to former life experiences in Europe. I, for one, do not wish to rest on my laurels and await "government help". I am fully able to function on my own, make my own decisions, and live with their consequences. I would prefer to work hard and earn money to support my family, rather than looking for a dole out from my government. Why should I send tax money into the government only to get it handed out in some whatever program? Chances are I wouldn't get any of it back anyway, given the corrupt bureaucracy government and its institutions habitually fall into over time. Millions of Americans share that ideal as well.

All the same, many countries in Europe are turning away from their former "socialism" in favor of the model presented by the US. Look at the changes in Germany and France as primary examples.

Another thing that I do not like about our current situation in this race. Obama is hugely supported by the Hollywood elite. Obama wants to "share the wealth" and to "spread the wealth around". His supporters are most of the wealthiest people in America, and even the world. What are they doing themselves to "share [their] wealth" and "spread [their] wealth around"? Not much that I see. Hypocrisy has been used many times in this thread - that behavior, I feel, is the epitomy of hypocrisy, and shows how "out of touch" the Hollywood elite truly is with their own supported ideals.

I would leave things as they are - let the Hollywood elite continue infusing their ridiculous payrolls back into the economy through consumerism. I don't see them "sharing" that money in any other way.

 

[Swabs]

Firstly, Obama doesn't choose his supporters, that's the "Hollywood elite" being hypocrites, not Obama.

Secondly, it's not 1787 any more, if Palin knew something about an out of date and (to be brutally honest) mostly irrelevent document that Biden didn't, how does that effect current politics? I know you'll fervently disagree with that as you seem have that sterotypical idealistic patriotism that Americans seem to love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Constitution is insignificant, of course it isn't. But it's a part of American History not current events. Hell UK politicians don't have to cite the bloody Magna Carta in debates.

Thirdly (this is directed at razoredge). So Obama once having links with Islam is a problem then? May I ask why? How does that effect his policies? How would that make him a bad president now? It seems to me that you basically just don't want a black president.

Sorry, it's just funny how you guys seem to hate Obama so much, yet I haven't see any of you mention one of his actual political ideas or policies once, you seem to only care about irrelevent issues that have nothing to do with the 2008 presidential election.


By the way, just for the record, as soon as I can, I'm voting Conservative here in the UK. I am fully aware that Obama is far from perfect. I just haven't seen any logical reasoning in this thread yet.

 

[Marwen]

Ok, so the last thing I expected is me posting here...

I don't see why America is so afraid of "socialism". What you refer to as "European Socialism" is quite possibly the reason that we have a significantly better quality of life over here. It's not communism, we're just as capitalist as America, the only difference is our governments actually attempt to help their people.

I've always had the same thought. From what I see, the effects of political activity in the UK is being much effective in the ACTUAL improvement of the citizens' overall quality of life than is the case in the US.

Thirdly (this is directed at razoredge). So Obama once having links with Islam is a problem then? May I ask why? How does that effect his policies? How would that make him a bad president now? It seems to me that you basically just don't want a black president.

Sorry, it's just funny how you guys seem to hate Obama so much, yet I haven't see any of you mention one of his actual political ideas or policies once, you seem to only care about irrelevent issues that have nothing to do with the 2008 presidential election.


By the way, just for the record, as soon as I can, I'm voting Conservative here in the UK. I am fully aware that Obama is far from perfect. I just haven't seen any logical reasoning in this thread yet.

Sorry, but from what I've read in this thread, I have but to agree with this. You can't fool yourself into thinking that you have the reasons why the man shouldn't be elected just because you (consciously or not) don't like him, be it on a personal level, or simply based on some ridiculous reasons that have no solid or reasonable ground to them, such as the mentioned Islam thing. (I'm no muslim btw, so I have no biases with regards to this)

 

[Marwen]

The following is from the "Your last purchase" thread that I thought I'd move here.

I get used to Zakk Wylde in the same way I got used to living next-door to a crack dealer for two years.

Very nice...
Now that's one of the reasons I sometimes find myself happy for not being an American; or at least, an American living in certain places in the us. :zombie:

I could find a drug dealer in any country, in just about any profession, in rich neighborhoods, in poor neighborhoods, white collar, blue collar, etc. etc. That's kind of like me saying "man...some dude got stabbed over there? Glad I don't live in London..."

Fair enough.
Still, where I currently reside (Tunisia), I have, for instance, never seen or heard of anyone who has a real weapon (e.g. a gun) since weapons are strictly prohibited here. I even never heard of a policeman who actually used them, although they do have them. That's too unnecessary here.
I also have lived in France (and still have to move there with the family about every year) and the neighborhood we reside in there is quite crime-free. So I guess my view of things is rather affected by such environments. That's probably why I'm often surprised when I hear some stories from some of my American friends about the state of criminality within certain neighborhoods or areas in the US, a country that is supposed to be more in control of such things.

Anyways, I hope you guys pick a better leader this time who'll actually make things better; though I know it's more complicated than just that, or whatever... I see some of you are already saying none of the candidates is good enough though.

 

[razoredge]

Firstly, Obama doesn't choose his supporters, that's the "Hollywood elite" being hypocrites, not Obama.

Secondly, it's not 1787 any more, if Palin knew something about an out of date and (to be brutally honest) mostly irrelevent document that Biden didn't, how does that effect current politics? I know you'll fervently disagree with that as you seem have that sterotypical idealistic patriotism that Americans seem to love. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Constitution is insignificant, of course it isn't. But it's a part of American History not current events. Hell UK politicians don't have to cite the bloody Magna Carta in debates.

Thirdly (this is directed at razoredge). So Obama once having links with Islam is a problem then? May I ask why? How does that effect his policies? How would that make him a bad president now? It seems to me that you basically just don't want a black president.

Sorry, it's just funny how you guys seem to hate Obama so much, yet I haven't see any of you mention one of his actual political ideas or policies once, you seem to only care about irrelevent issues that have nothing to do with the 2008 presidential election.


By the way, just for the record, as soon as I can, I'm voting Conservative here in the UK. I am fully aware that Obama is far from perfect. I just haven't seen any logical reasoning in this thread yet.

Firstly our Constitution is not irrelevent. Though highly abused from a "modern" interpretation to mean things are alright that people in those times could not even phantom man would stoop to such low levels.

Secondly, I dont like Islams, they can all die and be drifted over by sand dunes and I would rejoice. Yes, Im also not keen on a black president, Im fairly fed up with blacks in this country too. None the less my feelings all evolve around the current politicaly correct or post politically correct or what ever the fuck attitude everyone has that we must feel sorry and bow for all these other cultures when my own culture and future has been jepordized by that very same attitude. I honestly feel fuck them all, many of us native born Americans are decendents of European blood, mostly northern and we have an entirely different set of values and goals than these "new" "aMericans. However Im aware of the massive volumns of burbies that think their back lawn is the south fourty and there surely is enough room there for another house and the world is just one big happy family, but that is not me, I dont see it that way at all, I see these other countries and cultures becoming stronger by well thought long term planing and knowledge that non racist, politically correct, passive, apathetic Americans will watch it all happen... all while my culture is dying.

Trust me, the day will come in this country when no one white will be involved in running it, probably about 100 years. So Im in no rush to get that going.

Thirdly, I dont hear any of the candidates with solid ideas of how to get the $100,000 + per year and the $30,000 minus per year, working families more aligned in incomes to live in the same country together. I hear nothing about curbing the inflated incomes of the preditors that scam to rob our piggy banks daily. I hear nothing about bringing the drug companies under control. I hear nothing about bringing the out of touch fees hospitols are charging under control. I hear nothing about strict policies for companies pulling our jobs out from under us and still being allowed to do sell in this country. I heaqr nothing about getting some of the money back from the health insurance companies and officers that robbed the system blind. I hear nothing about the ending of use of our social security money for immigrant aid. I hear nothing about allowing hospitols to deny service to immigrants that dont pay. I hear nothing about bringing manufacturing back into this country and heading for real self sufficiency. We only hear smoke detectors going off when they talk about "energy reliance"... nothing but a political buzzer for election time.

I just dont hear anything that is supposed to appeal to the working class natural born citizen. Right now we are just worried about "the middle class" which by my standards have been way over paid and under worked. Then of course the poor deprived peoples of countries that never got off their ass to do a thing for their own country.

 

[Meedleyx10]

Your bigotry and ill-placed contempt for people who make more money than you make me sick. There's a little bit in the second-to-last paragraph that I agree with though.

 

[Marwen]

^ True imo.

Secondly, I dont like Islams, they can all die and be drifted over by sand dunes and I would rejoice.

First we say Muslims.

Secondly, I will respectfully disagree with you based on what you believe is right and wrong here. For the record, I am no Muslim (although my family are Muslims and I've spent a lot of time in Islamic environments: I simply have my own spiritual system and wouldn't adhere to any organized religion ESPECIALLY Christianity and Islam.) But for fuck's sake, I do hope that the winning candidate won't have such attitude as yours.

Ignorance combined with self-righteousness is a serious plague that will eventually harm not only your country, but the rest of the world as well.

 

[noble savage]

Razoredge, if you're going to hate a group of people, at least get their name right.

Good post, Marwen! I agree with pretty much all of it!

 

[Marwen]

Thanks man.
He usually does come up with some good points though, and I must respect his opinion (regardless of its validity).

 

[razoredge]

He usually does come up with some good points though

ya!

Your bigotry and ill-placed contempt for people who make more money than you make me sick. There's a little bit in the second-to-last paragraph that I agree with though.

go to an Islamic country, the getto, Mexico or elsewhere... then come back and tell me ALL about bigotry. When you want to excuse these people for their views and give a few reasons why they are such, remember I can give a few reasons myself

Then when you are back in good health, you can explain to me why you feel I have some "ill contempt" for those that show ill contempt toward the worth of the work force that gets the work done ?

Its bigger than just that, given the recent economic inflation caused by those throwing their big bucks around like pocket change but I'll keep it as simple as the previous paragraph... realizing the big picture is brutally challenging for some to focus on.

Ignorance combined with self-righteousness is a serious plague that will eventually harm not only your country, but the rest of the world as well.

I know what you mean, kinda like Islamic countries, the getto, Mexico and elsewhere... see I really do get it... all but the "eventually" part

But for fuck's sake, I do hope that the winning candidate won't have such attitude as yours.

Again, I really do get it, thats why I'm not so sure I would like to see a retreating Muslim, married to a Black racist become the president and first "lady" of my country

But thanks all, for the spell check and proper designation of words when refering to... Islams...

Hate ? I only return what has been delivered, place it on an envelope with "return to sender"

 

[Marwen]

I'm sorry, don't mean no offense but your post didn't make much sense to me, therefore I shouldn't reply. You see I don't want to discuss something that I'm almost totally ignorant about and have nothing but strange personal/subjective preconceptions with regards to. Otherwise my opinions won't be worthy of any respect.
That's just the way third-world evil Muslims brought me up.

 

[Iced Dog]

Wow, razoredge wins the Ultimate Metal award for Most Bitter, Cynical, & Jaded User Can anyone else even compete?

Obama/Biden have the secular, liberal media on their side

Liberal media, right...that is one of the most overblown concepts...conservatives use it like some sort of sacred mantra, such a tired argument. Even if Fox News was the main lens, most rational people would still see Palin as woefully unqualified.

I don't see why America is so afraid of "socialism". What you refer to as "European Socialism" is quite possibly the reason that we have a significantly better quality of life over here. It's not communism, we're just as capitalist as America, the only difference is our governments actually attempt to help their people.

Yep...capitalism is so ingrained into the fabric of American society, for us to become a true socialist/communist state is really far-fetched. But many republicans love to spin the socialist paranoia angle...it's almost as if McCarthyism is still alive and well.

 

[Meedleyx10]

Flip your one-sided coin all you want, but your narrow-minded views aren't going to start validating themselves.

It's not only ignorant, but the complete and total result of pure douchebaggery to try to reduce entire creeds, races, or income-bracket groups the way you do. (NOTE: I'm still trying to ignore the fact that you refer to non-racists like they are in the wrong) I guess I'm just not enough of a douchebag to let my views of entire races to be affected by what a few individuals or small groups choose to do. Do you think a single-mother of 3 kids living in the projects likes the gun-wielding crack dealer down the hall anymore than you do? Do you think people who are ACTUALLY affected by Islamic terrorists on a day to day basis like how the select few assholes with bombs to their chest create such a terrible image of their people? How do you think people who have worked to earn their wealth feel about how the economic clusterfuck of last week? No...let me guess, the culture-tainting minorities, the freedom-hating terrorists, and the wealthy pigs all deserve their fates right?

My grandpa grew up in a house of 9 kids and until he moved out, he took baths in a lake a few miles from his family's house (if you can even call it that) and lived on a diet of oatmeal and potatoes. He worked his ass off to get into medical school, worked/paid his own way through all of his education, joined the Air Force where he served as a General for the majority of his career until he got out of the service and ran a hospital for veterans until he finally retired a few years ago. I'm not going to throw out a dollar figure, but let's just say he's got nothing to worry about in the financial department for as long as he's around (and then some). I guess he's just another upper-class piece of garbage who you deserve so much more than, right? I started working full-time (or as close to full-time as my other obligations would allow) the day my parents would allow it and I, too, am working/paying 100% my own way through college, but I guess it doesn't matter...because any self respecting American would sooner be out in the woods with a saw chopping down trees for 9 hours a day, right?

You're judging the world through an outdated (assuming your "standards" were ever relevant in the first place) set of ideals. Assuming your "culture" is something that you feel you are accurately portraying to us right now, then I am glad it is dying off.