2008 Political debate thread

[razoredge]

I didn't say you haven't worked hard, I'm saying that you aren't the only one and you shouldn't make such insulting assumptions about people based on one or two assumed notions. Just because someone makes a lot of money doesn't mean they had it handed to them and you'd do well to remove the blinders in that respect. Also (referring to your responses to both zach and myself) if you aren't going to read and offer valid responses to what people are saying to you, then for your own sake please don't waste your time. I mean two things by that...for starters you are spinning things around and/or entirely misinterpreting things, and you are also blatantly ignoring facts that invalidate what you are spouting (I.E. the issue of Obama's citizenship). Also, if you took what I said about your profession as an insult then you simply read into that too much. You are extremely self-absorbed in how YOU have lived your life and how you've gotten to this point, my point was that you need to realize that there are a lot of ways for people to earn theirplace in life and that yours is not the only, or the best, way.

I could easily turn this around

my point was that you need to realize that there are a lot of ways for people to earn theirplace in life and that yours is not the only, or the best, way.

and say

No, the "swing and miss" is on your part.

because that is exactly what I have been saying, only such people have decided that others are not worth scratch and shall "compete" with whatever country they can emigrate to, to scrunge up some exploited labor.

If its presented to me that I am only worth 26,000 a year, I will say a Doctor is only worth $50,000 and so on. In a time when health care is at its current level of concern with out of control costs and we have Doctors, and officers of hospitols, pill factories, and insurance companies slamming down the big bucks and benes, I need not look far to see where in lie the scoundrols. Why should I care that that might piss someone off ?

You say something about me NOT responding to anything, get real, what have you responded to ? Did you even touch base on the part about how those with money, throwing it around like pocket change, trumped up the price of real estate, and isnt that a real big problem TODAY ? Then those of lesser means, wanting to start a family and have their own fucking home, were towed down the line, by a false economy and lending manuever that said to them, "sure, you too, can afford these prices, fear not ! " ?

Go to the gas/home heating crisis. But forget the size of homes {for heating} in effort to keep up with the Jones. Stick with gasoline. Everyone would bitch about the big SUV's or other various gas guzzlers, yet the wealthy thought nothing of it, so it was no big deal that the oil companies were taking one week per month of the average American workers pay to get to work, because after all there was now a large percentage of the population that could afford it. Now others dont have enough money to pay their mortgages and god damn them for wanting their own fucking nice home {and try to heat it}.

I see many reasons to insult the wealthy and question if they deserve that much more money than their fellow contributing countrymen... or turn it around if you like and say, why do their fellow contributing countrymen deserve so little {my preference of thought} ? Or even further and question why our government just sat back and watched it all happen knowing fully well it would come to a head as soon as they no longer had new "economic" schemes to cover it up. The tech industry and extended credit, got us through the 90's but it was all fake. Wallstreet games moved alot of money around, into the pockets of many who were surely undeserving, yet we dont want someone like me to critisize all of it... do we ?

 

[Iced Dog]

Would other countries {non bigoted of course, only white Americans are bigots} want someone running their country that did not grow up in their country ?

But, he DID grow up here...unless you consider 10 years old to be an adult

 

[Kenneth R.]

I am completely in the dark about cultural/ethnic bias. How can someone quantify A is better than B?

 

[Meedleyx10]

It's because those people don't even consider "B". The only thing they know is "A" and anything that doesn't fit or fall within the established "A" boundaries is automatically inferior, they judge only by "A" standards from an "A" viewpoint.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Ok, so we've established that Barack's mother was white and was an american. His father was in school and was LEGALLY here as a student. So... again, please make your point.

Also, though it doesn't matter, but Barack's father became an athiest later in life, so i don't think his durka durka was so strong.

 

[razoredge]

Well it was good to see them both talk about issues that I felt were crutial, even though ya'll think they are not.

All smoke and mirrors most likely

 

[Iced Dog]

i don't think his durka durka was so strong.

you omitted a durka

 

[Marwen]

I am completely in the dark about cultural/ethnic bias. How can someone quantify A is better than B?

It's because those people don't even consider "B". The only thing they know is "A" and anything that doesn't fit or fall within the established "A" boundaries is automatically inferior, they judge only by "A" standards from an "A" viewpoint.

Why the fuck does it matter if he is Muslim or Hindu or Christian or Wiccan? As long as he's not a scientologist it's irrelevant.

A Wiccan president of the US? Heh, the day something like that happens I'll know the entirety of the American people finally opened its mind. I hope I'll be alive by then.
Let him worship a rabbit. Wtf, everyone is free.


@razoredge: Allow me to say that your conclusions are merely based on the faulty premise that your knowledge and awareness are a perfect reflection of reality.
You say that "Islams" should "all die and be drifted over by sand dunes" and you "would rejoice". Well, my family are "Islams" you know; and they're really good people, I'm tellin' ya. If (heaven forbids) you ever find yourself lost, hungry, and homeless in north Africa (or in France when we're there), they'd be happy to have you at our home to stay as long as you want, and you'll be treated as you if you were a family member, nothing less and everything more.

As for me, as I stated earlier, I find myself incompatible with Islam -as a religion, morality, ideology, etc.- and would totally oppose it most (if not all) of the time. But I definitely don't hate Muslims, they're just people you know.
I despise most of Israel's policies, but that's it, it stops there. I totally respect Jews, and actually have 2 Israeli friends. In addition to that, I can tell you that my personal spiritual 'system' is 30 to 40% influenced by Judaism.

With that said, I honestly fail to comprehend how can anyone with a fair amount of healthy education, would, under any circumstances, allow himself to hate other people, judge, and discard their right to exist.
It's 2008 for god's sake, time to wake up!
Hell, I think those who choose to keep such mentalities are the only people worthy of hating. They should be castrated with dull scissors and undergo public televised crucifixions whilst rabid Nuns play with their dismembered testicles for the amusement of an audience of Tourrette's stricken Elvis impersonators.

Obama might not be perfect (no one is, ESPECIALLY politicians as we all know), nor personally 'liked' by you, but at least leave it at that: A PERSONAL dislike.

Based on the institution of the United States, this man has full rights to a candidacy for such position.
Based on the numbers and results I've seen so far, he's probably gonna win.
Deal with it.


@Zach: Dude, you win a "Wielder of the Rusty Axe of Doom Stained with the Blood of the Ignorant" title for your awesome posts.

 

[razoredge]

Yes, one bad apple doesnt spoil the whole bunch. With that said, I have no use for Islamic extremists and would like the opportunity to personally castrate them all by hand and stuff their nuts into their own mouths and take pictures. http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=Islamic+Extremist+photos&form=IIRE2#

 

[razoredge]

Wiccans are fucked up people, I knew a family of them as well.

I did not say I didnt like Obama. I said I questioned if I wanted a president that grew up outside the States. Made statements about favoring Islam, we are not an Islamic country you know. Had a wife that was a white hater. Was born of non American blood. I question his loyality, his patriotism. I question if he will be getting alot of votes for the soul reason of being black. I question what he will do about our immigration problem. The only responses I got were I was a racists and ignorant... from people whos awareness of various courses of events is less than 10 years, one that has been around longer, remembers little jadded pieces of the past that lead to suspicion of motivations. So all pokes with the rusty dull butterknife found out on the lawn bounced off my hardened hide.

 

[Marwen]

Yes, one bad apple doesnt spoil the whole bunch.

14 minutes later:

Wiccans are fucked up people, I knew a family of them as well.

I did not say I didnt like Obama. I said I questioned if I wanted a president that grew up outside the States. Made statements about favoring Islam, we are not an Islamic country you know. Had a wife that was a white hater. Was born of non American blood. I question his loyality, his patriotism. I question if he will be getting alot of votes for the soul reason of being black. I question what he will do about our immigration problem.

Okay man. If you put it that way, then fair enough.

...So all pokes with the rusty dull butterknife found out on the lawn bounced off my hardened hide.

Right on.

Yes, one bad apple doesnt spoil the whole bunch. With that said, I have no use for Islamic extremists and would like the opportunity to personally castrate them all by hand and stuff their nuts into their own mouths and take pictures.

Damn sure! Now, I'm with ya.
Just replace "Muslims" with "Islamic extremists" and I'll put my batman suit on and join you.

 

[Phanto]

So if Obama is not an Islamic extremist, why don't we all just shut the fuck up about his background.

 

[razoredge]

Dont roll yer eyes, I personally knew one of the daughters and recieved alot of first hand information on the evening gatherings around their home, stuff that the children were involved in {nothing sexual, cause the way I stated it might sound I was implying that} The kids had some deeply rooted issues from this upbringing that was forced on them. Not my fault, it is what it is, another example of people needing something... just because

 

[Marwen]

Hehe, that's not what I was implying by the smartass eyeroll, just the obvious contradiction between two things you've said, but anyways.

Yeah I think I know what you mean. From my humble experience, I can say that there are a lot of things about Wicca's adherents that I often find less than desirable. In many ways, many of its practitioners tend to use it as a substitute for Christianity, and most of the practitioners themselves tend to be people who consider themselves (whether consciously or unconsciously) to be social misfits. As a result, we now have many Wiccan families and covens/study groups full of cranks and weirdos who don't fit in anywhere else, but who have decided to band together into mentally/emotionally crippled support groups where their weirdness, immaturity, sexual deviancy (on the part of the males), and/or other social ineptness can be considered somehow appropriate and accepted.

One of the reasons why there is so much crud to sift through in Wicca today is that there is no central (governmental) authority to act as a regulator of people's behavior. Without any central organization to prevent it, abuse (by Pagan/Wiccan parents, teachers, and practitioners) occurs far more regularly than it should.

Many are, again, social misfits who usually have something wrong with them (Be it physical or psychological. Anything from unsightly appearance to unusual medical conditions or sexual deviance, etc. etc.). Those types usually end up using Wicca/Witchcraft/Religious extremism and self-righteousness (as is the case with Islamic extremists)...etc. as a way of overcompensating for their lack in some aspect of their mundane lives.

Contrary to what you may be thinking though, there ARE actually some good and balanced Wicca practitioners. They're much harder to find though.

My belief is simply that humanity, with all its differences, does have merit and should be raised up to higher levels; and the first step to doing so imo is by learning to accept other people who are different. To accept the B perspective that Ken mentioned. That's why I always tend to dislike it when someone says: "Dude, that group B fucking sucks!". I mean come one, we're better than that.
Learning to be objective, open-minded (in a BS-proof fashion), while having a thorough understanding of human psychological processes and personality traits (and how they form) will or should result in expanded awareness of self and others, thus a true transcendence for human-kind.

 

[ABQShredHead]

Pretty scary comments by Jesse Jackson the other day regarding Obama and Israel. That could turn into a big mess very quickly. Granted, the comments are from the dear Rev. Jackson; but, with reduced or no support for Israel from the West, Israel and Iran will most likely attack one another. That will be the closest thing to starting Swabs' (name?) feared World War III than anything coming from the McCain camp.

Haha, Marwen - I just caught your web address in your e-mail out of the corner of my eye and read it as "marwen enema".

 

[noble savage]

Pretty scary comments by Jesse Jackson the other day regarding Obama and Israel. That could turn into a big mess very quickly. Granted, the comments are from the dear Rev. Jackson; but, with reduced or no support for Israel from the West, Israel and Iran will most likely attack one another. That will be the closest thing to starting Swabs' (name?) feared World War III than anything coming from the McCain camp.

I wonder why Jesse Jackson (And Sharpton for that matter) are still relevant. I mean, people actually listen to what they say.

If it is not Iran and Israel that bomb each other, it will be India and Pakistan. They scare me the most!

We should remove all of the sane people left in those countries (i.e women and young children), bring them over here and put giant bubbles over the region and let them have it out.

 

[Marwen]

Haha, Marwen - I just caught your web address in your e-mail out of the corner of my eye and read it as "marwen enema".

lmao

 

[Kenneth R.]

Someone answer me why the fuck we care about Israel?

I like their people the same as I like most people, but not the government. Or our government's favored support.

1. It's not our country.
2. They aren't like PR or Canada- not a territory.
3. We're the ones giving them money to support their squabble with Palestine.
4. A brief look at history will show that Palestine's claim to the land now owned by Israel is legitimate in some sense.
5. The sole reason anyone gives a damn about Israel is because we somehow feel bad/responsible for the holocaust, that great crutch that keeps getting used.
6. Israel and Palestine both use terrorist tactics to war with each other. Why don't we stop this with our 'war on terror'. We fund them!
7. There is no economic angle. Again, we are giving them oodles of money, for no gain in export.
8. The sole reason to support them is transparent - a Jewish nation in the middle of a Muslim continent. Religiously motivated? Why? And we wonder why the Muslims are pissed?

I have nothing against anybody. At the Fels today a whole ton of african and muslim familes came crashing through trick-or-treating. It was cute. It was normal. I have no reason to prejudice them.

 

[noble savage]

My belief is simply that humanity, with all its differences, does have merit and should be raised up to higher levels; and the first step to doing so imo is by learning to accept other people who are different. To accept the B perspective that Ken mentioned. That's why I always tend to dislike it when someone says: "Dude, that group B fucking sucks!". I mean come one, we're better than that.
Learning to be objective, open-minded (in a BS-proof fashion), while having a thorough understanding of human psychological processes and personality traits (and how they form) will or should result in expanded awareness of self and others, thus a true transcendence for human-kind.

I agree with this to a large extent. I'm a very sacrilegious person, but that doesn't mean that I don't find the topic fascinating. I grew up around a family that was Hindu and, in all honesty, it is one of the coolest and most interesting things I remember from my childhood.

I think that is being open minded, even though I disagree to a large extent with them. Some people, though, are not capable of following the western ideals of freedom; like religious freedom, womens rights etc. It's completely fine to look at America and get disgusted at all of the reality TV/Hollywood lifestyle bullshit. I do it myself. But the fact is, there is nothing now stopping me from thinking objectively and making decisions based on what I think is right. The people who want to remove these freedoms from me, I automatically dismiss. Like fundamentalist Muslims or any other group like that.

 

[noble savage]

8. The sole reason to support them is transparent - a Jewish nation in the middle of a Muslim continent. Religiously motivated? Why? And we wonder why the Muslims are pissed?

I have always wondered why one group couldn't just pack up their shit and leave. Is Jerusalem really worth all of the life lost over it?