I don't see how having bad experiences with groups of people can make you hate them all. Being brown in post-9/11 NYC sucked; I've experienced racism and taunts that no one should endure but I don't hate the ethnic groups of the people who did those things to me. As for going to the ghetto and experiencing bigotry... well, if you talk to minorities irl the way you talk about them on this forum then you totally deserve all the ill treatment you get. Lastly, I'd also like to point out that someone who is well-educated, from a city, from a barrio, etc. isn't better or worse than you; they're just different, and a person's background doesn't make them any less of an American than you are.
2008 Political debate thread
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I'm sorry to hear that only those that put themsleves through college and bath in the lake are the only ones that "worked hard" and have earned their fair share. I have bathed in the lake, carried water to the camp... does this make me worthy of a few hundred thousand a year ?
Welll written but still a swing and a miss in understanding, you are only drawing assumptions but its good to see you get so worked up, at least that shows you know how it feels to have ones worth insulted
I'm more apt to be on the same page as those from the getto, once again a person drawing assumptions. My point was that all races, creeds and nationalities entertain "racism" so I only muse when all focus of such and burdon of conformation goes on the white race.
I have endured things that all should have to endure, it builds perspective.
As for whos more American, I will not agree. This country was founded, bleed and sweat for and that all ended within a few decades after WWII, all pages in history that are now commonly disregarded.
People are up in arms as if the US wants to "run" say some middle east country, which is not the case, we want them to run it, ethically but yet Im suppose to be Ok with someone born and raised elsewhere, a non participant in the development of the US... running my country ? An earlier example of such could be our work with Japan, whom we bent over backwards for, cutting our own throat in the long term... well arent they doing just fine ? How about West Germany, say, compared to East Germany ?
If you recieved "racism" post Sept 11th, should you not be twice as pissed off at Islamic extremists than we ? Would you expect different considering the extremes ? Would you expect generations of Americans to not be pissed off about our government openly letting everyone and anyone into the country given not just the terrorist angle but all the end results ? Consideration is only for "minorities" ?
Whoa there, it's the law that whoever runs for president must be over the age of 35 and must be a natural-born citizen. Obama fits both of those categories. Capitalizing on prior military experience, modest backgrounds, etc. didn't happen until Andrew Jackson became president. Germany did well after our occupation, yes, but the organization and manner in which it went about was not the clusterfuck that is Iraq now.
As for me hating people I'll never see again for as long as I live, I just can't do it. I guess in a sense you're right that extremists made my life miserable for some time, but for every person who associated me with them, there are a hundred, if not, a thousand people here who have the sense to know not to.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
No, you missed the point entirely. You have implied that all rich people deserve their downfall because they don't earn it, and all he did was show that people DO earn their money through hard work. You have to apply yourself AFTER bathing in the lake to get money, simply going to a lake doesn't give you any rights. Unless you're King Arthur, which none of us are. And Dennis would more than likely disagree with that as well.
So you chose to lower yourself to be like the rest of the folks who entertain racism? yes, we all have prejudices, but some are more in perspective than others. For example, if i'm in south seattle and see a cracked out black dude, I'm going to be a bit wary given the circumstances. Is it because he's black? Not really. There are plenty of cracked out white dudes as well, and they also give me pause. If i go into The Silver Fork on a Sunday morning and am surrounded by black church goers, am I going to feel unsafe? Hell no. And I'm not even christian. It's that the people as a race are not inherently bad, and it's pretty sad if you can't see that. Same with anyone from the middle east (muslims, islams, etc). Hell, i think we're getting to the point in this country where the Christian Right is comparable to those goddamned Islams you hate so much. Not necesarily with out and out violence, but as far as shear closed mindedness towards anyone who doesn't share the same beliefs.
But your hardships aren't the only thing that can do that. Everyone has different life experiences that shape them in different ways. Why should everyone have to experience the same things you do?
Look at European history. Throughout the course, you had Kings and Conquerors that changed the face of Europe on many occasions. You're afraid of any change in America (which I'd argue the same for Mark), which is just absurd. I'm not saying socialism is the answer, but society will change, the world as a whole will change, and everyone seems to be so goddamned afraid of that change when the ones who survive are going to be the ones who embrace and "deal with it". Hell, if you don't like the changes, come up with some ideas and fight for something new. It's never easy, but that is better than trying to maintain the status quo which is just not going to work in our country given the state of things. Swabs's point about the Magna Carta not being cited every time someone bitches is incredibly relevant.
First of all, there's no such thing as West Germany and East Germany... they're the same country again. Secondly, Barack was born in Hawaii which is technically part of the US which makes him a US citizen... here's some information since you don't really seem to know what the hell you're talking about.
Though it's all a moot point since Barack is christian, not muslim...
Most people aren't that bitter. Again, it's blaming the whole for a few people's fuck ups. That's just dumb and backwards-ass thinking.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Why the fuck does it matter if he is Muslim or Hindu or Christian or Wiccan? As long as he's not a scientologist it's irrelevant.
Phanto
Alalalalalalalala.
BECAUSE NEVER FORGET 9 11!!!!! hate arabs forever! DUURHRHHHRHRHHR Rreeeeeeeetaaaaaaaaardd hdhdhrjhuhuhu mongojävlar.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Don't forget hatin the Japs and the Germans and the Chinese and the British, those bastards and their taxes, the Spanish for claiming California & Mexico, Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and anybody else who takes white people's jobs, the fucking French- freedom fries forever, vietnamese charlies, the Reds, the yellows, everybody.
Except Israel.
Except Israel.
Iced Dog
The Stormrider's Pooch
Never forget Sept 11th ? That was just the icing on the cake, not that many here would remember the past 40 years. I remember other personal occurances with middle easterners from which I drew my conclusions. I already went through the most extreme of those earlier.
Zach - you and everyone else missed the point. Firstly the statement I made that threw Meedley up in arms was over paid and under worked, by my standards Stated as such, intentionally. Then I recieved trivial information about "hard work" and "effort", which proved my point exactingly. I was hopeing it might occur to some that others in this country exerted hard work and effort and get it all shoved down their throats and in many instances pulled sideways out their ass. It was a simple wake up message and I mused at the distraction it caused as others validated the worth of specific occupations... then somehow Meedley chose to insult mine in a strange twist associated with something else I was talking about which was the dwindling old American culture. If Im not mistaken I have a right and a valid reason for loving the country I grew up in and disliking the apparent hatred of those of us that do. Once again, as was mentioned a few pages earlier, we are supposed to be tolerant of this inflitration and for some unknown reason ashamed of what we like. ???? OK, but I'm not buying and bare no shame, the "shaming" wont work on me as it has a certain percentage of the gumby population.
On to Obama, "racism" and other such drama.
I sit now and wonder why Obama was not a Senator for Hawaii ? I never liked that kind of thing, as when Hillary became Senator of NY, WTF she was from Arkansas and that is where she should have returned. [NY's budget is worse than ever BTW, so I'm not sure what she did for us] Regardless Obama fell in under the loop hole that allows babies of non citizens to automatically become citizens. He still has NO loyality to this country, he has lived elsewhere, myself I dont want this kind of "leader" and fear that he will also ignor our immigration problem. I want someone that knows what it took to make this country what it once was, knows what is bringing it down and loves and misses all that it once was. I want this ship turned around.
Racism - I enjoy haveing the racist shame thrown at me, its so far off the mark. I am not racist, I simply recognize race, as do all other races that are exempt of the racist trump card. In this instance I was refering to... lets question - do the blacks want a black president ? Do all other races wish to hell we wont have any more white presidents ? Dont many wish we whities were ancient history ? {yet they seem to come to our country like a magnet on steel} Will not, nearly everyone of non white skin be voting for Obama ? Many of which may very well be doing so just because he's NOT white ? But then there is something wrong with me because I really would like to live in a country created by and run by my own kind ? I see nothing wrong with bringing this up... especially being how I have expressed many times that I dont think anyone involved with politics is interested in protecting the well being of our entire population... especially "my kind" {see Meedleys comment about how the like of me must die
}
Jasmin - Isnt the current problem in Iraq that the extremists wont cooperate with the rest of the population and allow a stable, honorable government to be put in place ? Not us for holding out till such is done ? Dont get me wrong, I have mentioned many times that I would have pulled out the day they offed Sadam, I was pissed when big George pulled out and didnt remove the problem, especially after I saw what Sadam did to the Kurds... racist that I am
As for Iraq and "weapons of mass destruction", I never fell for Georgie poo's line of crap but everyone seems to have so easily forgot that Sadam was refusing to work with the UN in determining if they were working on such weapons. There are easy ways to avoid trouble but here was a man running straight for it. So here we are, the world, waiting for a country to grow up and put a solid government in place, yet they carry on with the bullshit. I could tell a story about Bulls in the pasture during herding and how they carry on with vigor... until you ignore them, but that would be showing the ignorance of my low ed., low effort, dying breed... that cant die soon enough whatever, I really do get it, all of it.
Zach - you and everyone else missed the point. Firstly the statement I made that threw Meedley up in arms was over paid and under worked, by my standards Stated as such, intentionally. Then I recieved trivial information about "hard work" and "effort", which proved my point exactingly. I was hopeing it might occur to some that others in this country exerted hard work and effort and get it all shoved down their throats and in many instances pulled sideways out their ass. It was a simple wake up message and I mused at the distraction it caused as others validated the worth of specific occupations... then somehow Meedley chose to insult mine in a strange twist associated with something else I was talking about which was the dwindling old American culture. If Im not mistaken I have a right and a valid reason for loving the country I grew up in and disliking the apparent hatred of those of us that do. Once again, as was mentioned a few pages earlier, we are supposed to be tolerant of this inflitration and for some unknown reason ashamed of what we like. ???? OK, but I'm not buying and bare no shame, the "shaming" wont work on me as it has a certain percentage of the gumby population.
On to Obama, "racism" and other such drama.
I sit now and wonder why Obama was not a Senator for Hawaii ? I never liked that kind of thing, as when Hillary became Senator of NY, WTF she was from Arkansas and that is where she should have returned. [NY's budget is worse than ever BTW, so I'm not sure what she did for us] Regardless Obama fell in under the loop hole that allows babies of non citizens to automatically become citizens. He still has NO loyality to this country, he has lived elsewhere, myself I dont want this kind of "leader" and fear that he will also ignor our immigration problem. I want someone that knows what it took to make this country what it once was, knows what is bringing it down and loves and misses all that it once was. I want this ship turned around.
Racism - I enjoy haveing the racist shame thrown at me, its so far off the mark. I am not racist, I simply recognize race, as do all other races that are exempt of the racist trump card. In this instance I was refering to... lets question - do the blacks want a black president ? Do all other races wish to hell we wont have any more white presidents ? Dont many wish we whities were ancient history ? {yet they seem to come to our country like a magnet on steel} Will not, nearly everyone of non white skin be voting for Obama ? Many of which may very well be doing so just because he's NOT white ? But then there is something wrong with me because I really would like to live in a country created by and run by my own kind ? I see nothing wrong with bringing this up... especially being how I have expressed many times that I dont think anyone involved with politics is interested in protecting the well being of our entire population... especially "my kind" {see Meedleys comment about how the like of me must die
}Jasmin - Isnt the current problem in Iraq that the extremists wont cooperate with the rest of the population and allow a stable, honorable government to be put in place ? Not us for holding out till such is done ? Dont get me wrong, I have mentioned many times that I would have pulled out the day they offed Sadam, I was pissed when big George pulled out and didnt remove the problem, especially after I saw what Sadam did to the Kurds... racist that I am
As for Iraq and "weapons of mass destruction", I never fell for Georgie poo's line of crap but everyone seems to have so easily forgot that Sadam was refusing to work with the UN in determining if they were working on such weapons. There are easy ways to avoid trouble but here was a man running straight for it. So here we are, the world, waiting for a country to grow up and put a solid government in place, yet they carry on with the bullshit. I could tell a story about Bulls in the pasture during herding and how they carry on with vigor... until you ignore them, but that would be showing the ignorance of my low ed., low effort, dying breed... that cant die soon enough
whatever, I really do get it, all of it.Silly satire, I can deal with, though, I use satire all the time and sometimes it even gets under the radar.
The Germans straightened out, they were crushed to the core and had no choice.
The Japs went down hard and refused to surrender until the extreme took place, then we kissed their ass and gave them our markets, they are not stupid, though Im sure Pearl Harbor is an embarrasment now given how easy it really was to "take America" in the end.
No reason to hate the Chinese, its our own people that screwed us there, they are not stupid either and learned from watching Japan.
In the grand scheme of creating a border for countries, one look at the map would reveil why our forefathers wanted the border where it was. We also fought our own Civil war to keep the country in one piece.
The Vietnamese were one fucked up batch, so fuck them.
The Reds were great in the "Square" that one day, awesome in Russia too. Yeah I could find a few things to hate.
I have every reason to dislike anyone that takes work from my brothers and anyone that allows or condones it. If you wanna see hate, bigotry and ball asses... take the work back. Nothing wrong with it, its only natural... whos foot, which shoe
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
I don't have time to respond to everything right now, but it occurs to me that you're complaining about overworked and underpaid individuals. Ironically, the most overworked and underpaid demographic are *le gasp!* minorities.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
One other quick comment because it's bothering me.
Re-read what I posted. His mom was a White American from Wichita, Kansas. So how is he not rightfully an American Citizen?
let me use another example. Remember when Vicky and I were planning on getting married? Had that worked out the way we wanted, she would have been here as a non-American citizen. Furthermore, if we had kids, the kids would be half and half, not racially but as far as nationality goes. So, would this be ok?
If you answer yes, then you're a hypocrite and a racist. Just because we're talking about one example that is two white people with a common bloodline, you're willing to overlook it. Once it involves someone from a different area of the world but STILL falls under the same exact criteria, it's not ok? And FYI (as Swabs has made clear, and I don't at all fault the guy), a lot of English folks don't think too highly of the US or its politics. I can't say I blame them.
Re-read what I posted. His mom was a White American from Wichita, Kansas. So how is he not rightfully an American Citizen?
let me use another example. Remember when Vicky and I were planning on getting married? Had that worked out the way we wanted, she would have been here as a non-American citizen. Furthermore, if we had kids, the kids would be half and half, not racially but as far as nationality goes. So, would this be ok?
If you answer yes, then you're a hypocrite and a racist. Just because we're talking about one example that is two white people with a common bloodline, you're willing to overlook it. Once it involves someone from a different area of the world but STILL falls under the same exact criteria, it's not ok? And FYI (as Swabs has made clear, and I don't at all fault the guy), a lot of English folks don't think too highly of the US or its politics. I can't say I blame them.
yep, but not most overworked, and certainly not the only, sorry, I have already talked some about this falacy. Non college grad white people as well as rural people have become a minority now as well. Everyone needs a diploma today or "your just chicken shit and be happy with the kibble we throw you". Which I dont have the time to get into, it would take pages of explaining how and why this came to be, but it has been a well calculated effort to further verify the worth of the "educated" as if anyone walks out of highschool and even college and doesnt have alot to learn, dues to pay, experience to gain, hard knocks to endure.
So {gasp} your warm but not HOT
No, the "swing and miss" is on your part. I didn't say you haven't worked hard, I'm saying that you aren't the only one and you shouldn't make such insulting assumptions about people based on one or two assumed notions. Just because someone makes a lot of money doesn't mean they had it handed to them and you'd do well to remove the blinders in that respect. Also (referring to your responses to both zach and myself) if you aren't going to read and offer valid responses to what people are saying to you, then for your own sake please don't waste your time. I mean two things by that...for starters you are spinning things around and/or entirely misinterpreting things, and you are also blatantly ignoring facts that invalidate what you are spouting (I.E. the issue of Obama's citizenship). Also, if you took what I said about your profession as an insult then you simply read into that too much. You are extremely self-absorbed in how YOU have lived your life and how you've gotten to this point, my point was that you need to realize that there are a lot of ways for people to earn theirplace in life and that yours is not the only, or the best, way.
EDIT:
I jumped the gun...thanks for picking that one up Zach, and good post.
But was his father ? Did he not live elsewhere ? Did he not have a mother that apparently did not gravitate toward this country or a fellow countryman ? Could easily be a coincedence, or could easily be a negative influence.
Would Vicky have been here as a illegal ? Should you leave and raise a child out of the country and then they return to become president of the US ? Would other countries {non bigoted of course, only white Americans are bigots} want someone running their country that did not grow up in their country ?
To answer your curiosity that has nothing to do with the topic, I do prefer racially matching unions and also of similiar cultures. However I am aware that "shit happens" and condone no one for what is in their heart.
The UK has had one awesome run of "politics"... No ? I would question some hyprocracy on that one. Strong willed people of firm beliefs are rarely popular.
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