2008 Political debate thread

[Beelzebub]

Thoughts on tonight's debate GO!

 

[noble savage]

Good post, CantoX.

Edit: oh, and probably one of the best reasons not to vote for McCain: Even if you love the guy and all his policies, if he dies or becomes ill in office, you've got Sarah Palin running the country. Even the most hardline McCain fans will probably agree with me that this is something to cringe about.

I have been wondering about this since she announced she was running for McCains VP slot. What the fuck is he thinking!? Does he even think?

 

[ABQShredHead]

McCain's not going anywhere. You don't have to worry about Palin becoming President, unless she succeeds McCain in 2016 as the party choice.

I look at her experience in the Executive branch as more experience than Obama will bring to the Presidency, and he's on the top of the ticket. Yeah, she comes across as an airhead, but no worse than frickin' Dan Quayle... Biden's experience is much more attractive than Obama's, but his politics don't mesh with my outlook on the world.

As far as the debate, I am just now watching it on C-SPAN. I missed it live - they need to pick times outside of my kids' bedtime to have these things. But, I don't like some of the comparisons Obama is drawing. Comparing our current crisis to 9/11 - I see no relevance there, and really that came across as "name dropping" on my end. I think McCain is beating the hell out of him in these discussions. But, all in all, Tom Brokaw is the best part of the debate.

EDITS: I didn't get anything out of Obama's last answer. He told us nothing about what he does not know. Does that then mean he thinks he knows everything? I think McCain owned the Israel question with his relation to the gentleman asking the question. Obama's retort came off poorly in his attempt at grace to the questioner.

I was also baffled at where Obama will get all this money he plans to send to former Soviet bloc countries to help stabilize their economies.

And I can't stand Michelle Obama. Cindy McCain, on the other hand, builds and races cars. That rocks!

"You're in my way for my script." Brokaw wins!

 

[Iced Dog]

"You're in my way for my script." Brokaw wins!

That was great...he's leaning his head trying to see past the candidates blocking his view. Brokaw for president if he just would've said, "hey fucknuts, a little help here!"

I think McCain is a competent fellow, but he just pales in comparison to Obama when side-by-side, and no it's not a height issue Obama just has a great way of conveying his ideas in a calm, thoughtful manner...whereas McCain seems to be straining to keep from having an outburst or walking over and bitchslapping Obama (i.e. the "that one" remark) I realize this speaks more to style points, but I'm also more impressed with Barack's ideas and global approach.

if he dies or becomes ill in office, you've got Sarah Palin running the country. Even the most hardline McCain fans will probably agree with me that this is something to cringe about.

Yeah, I asked my dad who he was voting for...he basically thinks McCain is gonna croak in office, and Obama would get assassinated, so for him the election is between Palin and Biden...he's voting for Biden

 

[ABQShredHead]

Hmm... I don't really get much out of Obama's rhetoric and explanations. Possibly that I'm biased against him, or the fact that I'm trying to get my 3Q employee assessments completed and not really listening to anything.

And in regard to Biden's experience, some major flaws have been pointed out in his understandings of the US Constitution as he relayed them in the debate. Check here. This article doesn't make Palin look so bad at all. I suppose it's all about which media source you subscribe to, eh?

 

[Ascension]

I want to know what McCain has to say about this financial shitstorm that he was incredibly in favor of last week. Yes, I'm aware that Obama voted for it too. I have heard silence from McCain after the stock market dive however. It was he who demanded that both candidates suspend their campaigns to focus on the issue and get the damned bill passed. Lot of good that bill did eh?

Nothing out of the B. Hussein Obama camp either. He probably just phoned his vote in though.

Edit: oh, and probably one of the best reasons not to vote for McCain: Even if you love the guy and all his policies, if he dies or becomes ill in office, you've got Sarah Palin running the country. Even the most hardline McCain fans will probably agree with me that this is something to cringe about.

She would probably be better than a lifer politician like Biden who doesn't know who was in office during the Depression & when TV became a reality. :Smug: Taking chances either way. She shook things up in AK, so...

 

[ABQShredHead]

I'm rewatching the debate here, mostly because I'm still awake doing assessments and they just keep showing it over and over and over and over. Ugh. I found Obama's answer on meeting with not only our friends but our enemies and laying the smack down on them somewhat empty. Does he think we have not taken such courses of action? I don't see rogue leaders like Ahmadinejad coming to the table with a serious attitude if we simply say, "conform to the rest of the world or we'll impose dire sanctions on your country". "Oh, how about if I impose my sanctions on you, Evil American, and turn off my oil?" The biggest problem with "our enemies" is that they hate us, and talking across a table about imposing tough sanctions will do nothing to improve our relations with said nations.

McCain's answer to military response in the event of Israel being attacked was spot-on for me though.

 

[Proghead3]

Nothing out of the B. Hussein Obama camp either.

You're not helping your cause by calling Obama by his middle name.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Thoughts on tonight's debate GO!

I got excited for a second when I read this and thought there was gonna be a debate about Go, that game I'm obsessed with.

Edit: 1. I guess Ascension's illiterate cause even though I specifically said something about Obama, he'd have to point out the exact same thing I had said, using the guy's middle name once again. Didn't we tell you that just makes you look like a hick?

2. There seems to be a lot of negative defense. People will say "well I'm voting Y because X did/said this!" I'm guilty of this also, to a degree. But really, when someone asks a question "what do you think of X's position on -issue-?" it's kind of banal to reply "Y thinks -this-! Isn't that stupid?" It's avoiding the question. (Sarah Palin, this means you). Are people so entrenched in their parties that they can't see above their own asses?

3. Ascension again, "shaking things up" is not necessarily a positive thing. The feds just shook up the world market.

 

[Ascension]

You're not helping your cause by calling Obama by his middle name.

As long as I get your attention with it...it works.

Edit: 1. I guess Ascension's illiterate cause even though I specifically said something about Obama, he'd have to point out the exact same thing I had said, using the guy's middle name once again. Didn't we tell you that just makes you look like a hick?

And your defense of him & attacks on McCain make you look like a leftist liberal with his head up his ass & his hand out. Looks like none of us are perfect.

3. Ascension again, "shaking things up" is not necessarily a positive thing. The feds just shook up the world market.

Ok...she shook things up in a positive way. There...that should help.

 

[Yngvai X]

I'm slowly leaning towards a 3rd party vote. I can't in good conscience put my hand in making either one of these two president, no matter who gets elected. There is no such thing as the lesser of two evils in this election, they're both pretty much the same thing. We've already taken our one gigantic leap towards socialism with the passing of the bailout bill, and its just going to continue that way. Either through Obama's marxism or McCain's statism.

Any America bashers that constantly whine about wanting to move to Europe just sit tight, cause it'll be here before you know it.

 

[Beelzebub]

Ascension we can read what you say, no need to bring attention to yourself. We get it, you don't like Obama. Don't be a tool.

I think the 9/11-Wall Street collapse comparison was pretty apt. I guess you have to have been there to realize the similarities.

I don't get why people feel the need to compare wives, I personally don't give a shit.

What also doesn't gel with me is the right's constant attacks on Obama's elitism when McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns, has 13 cars, and his wife (if we want to go there) wears outfits worth thousands of dollars. Peruse any fashion magazine and they'll profile what she wears. The suit she wore at the RNC alone was something in the range of $5000.

None of the conservatives of the board have responded to my post on the Jones Act.

 

[Swabs]

I'm slowly leaning towards a 3rd party vote. I can't in good conscience put my hand in making either one of these two president, no matter who gets elected. There is no such thing as the lesser of two evils in this election, they're both pretty much the same thing. We've already taken our one gigantic leap towards socialism with the passing of the bailout bill, and its just going to continue that way. Either through Obama's marxism or McCain's statism.

Oh my god, sorry but Obama is not a Marxist in the slightest, a Marxist is somebody who believes that eventually the working prolitariat will rise up and instigate a popular revolution due to the failings of capitalism. A socialist government will then be emplaced until the need for regulation dissolves and everyone is living in a utopian Communist state where everyone has an equal share of the countries bountiful supply of resources created by everyone working together and everyone lives happily ever after.

Obama does not think a socialist revolution of the prolitariat is coming.

Not to mention that fact that Health Care isn't communism, it's simply survival. The idea that if someone gets shot in America, and is lying bleeding on the floor, and they have to PAY to get treated. Is fucking disgusting.


Although ironically the pre-conditions for the October 1917 Bolshevik revolution in Russia are astoundingly similiar to America's current situation Failing economy, people living in poverty, uneeded and unwarranted Wars, an incompetent government ect ect ect

 

[ABQShredHead]

I don't get why people feel the need to compare wives, I personally don't give a shit.

Because she builds and races cars!!!11!1!11 Or whatever means cool on this place.

And I was freakin' joking. Craftsman or DeWalt?

What also doesn't gel with me is the right's constant attacks on Obama's elitism when McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns, has 13 cars, and his wife (if we want to go there) wears outfits worth thousands of dollars. Peruse any fashion magazine and they'll profile what she wears. The suit she wore at the RNC alone was something in the range of $5000.

Comparing wives doesn't matter but talking fashion does?

I will never condemn anybody for building wealth. To me, that shows great discipline and in most cases intelligence. I aspire to do the same. Well, without the flashy outfits, at least...

None of the conservatives of the board have responded to my post on the Jones Act.

I haven't even looked into it, to be honest. Not that I'm calling myself a Conservative...

I'm slowly leaning towards a 3rd party vote. I can't in good conscience put my hand in making either one of these two president, no matter who gets elected. There is no such thing as the lesser of two evils in this election, they're both pretty much the same thing. We've already taken our one gigantic leap towards socialism with the passing of the bailout bill, and its just going to continue that way. Either through Obama's marxism or McCain's statism.

Good reasoning, Matt. But who are the third party noms? Ron Paul?

My thoughts are that we're in a world of sh!@ at the moment. It will take strong, inspirational leadership to get us through our current crises. I fear Obama paired with a carte blanche Dem Congress will dig our hole deeper in this instance, though Obama does come across as inspirational. My issues are with the government branches as a whole, and what I see happening with Leftist principles growing unchecked.

Not to mention that fact that Health Care isn't communism, it's simply survival. The idea that if someone gets shot in America, and is lying bleeding on the floor, and they have to PAY to get treated. Is fucking disgusting.

I would push that over to the ambulance chasers who have driven medical-provider insurance through the roof. Some lawsuits in the past have been perfectly legitimate, but those that aren't do little for our situation but drive up the insurance costs of our medical providers. Perhaps my ire should go more to the jurists/judges who awarded such large judgements in the past to enable ambulance chasers and easy-wealth seekers to start us down that road.

I'm all for health insurance and legal reform, but socializing health care will be too taxing on our public.

 

[Iced Dog]

The biggest problem with "our enemies" is that they hate us, and talking across a table about imposing tough sanctions will do nothing to improve our relations with said nations.

What I get from Obama's stance on the issue of talking with our enemies is that it will of course not always work (I believe he even said as much in the debate), but it's something we have to at least try...it's basic diplomacy, and to take that option off the table and get all pissy about preconditional BS is nonsense.

CNN had a recent forum with several former secretaries of state (Colin Powell, James Baker, Henry Kissinger, Madeleine Albright, etc.) in which they discussed this issue, and they all agreed we must try to talk with rogue nations. Hell, even the Bush administration finally decided to start low-level talks with Iran this year.

Good reasoning, Matt. But who are the third party noms? Ron Paul?

Isn't it Nader again?

EDIT: I love the Magnum P.I. thing Letterman did

 

[Ascension]

We get it, you don't like Obama. Don't be a tool.

Only a tool after others have been...seems to work here...at least you think it works for you.

I don't get why people feel the need to compare wives, I personally don't give a shit.

his wife (if we want to go there) wears outfits worth thousands of dollars. Peruse any fashion magazine and they'll profile what she wears. The suit she wore at the RNC alone was something in the range of $5000.

Don't give a shit huh.:Smug: Fuckin' hypocritic tool.

None of the conservatives of the board have responded to my post on the Jones Act.

Which one applies?

The Jones Act (Philippines) was a 1916 statute sponsored by U.S. Representative William Atkinson Jones that provided the Philippine Islands a more autonomous government to prepare the territory for independence.
The Jones-Shafroth Act or Jones Act (Puerto Rico) was a 1917 statute sponsored by Representative William Atkinson Jones, which concerned the government of Puerto Rico and conferred U.S. citizenship on Puerto Ricans.

If you're talking about the Merchant Marine Act of 1920. It's in relation to lost jobs & increased costs in shipping. We probably build only 1% or less of the world's commercial ships...which at one time was a big industry for us...other countries don't have the restraints on them that the Act puts on our maritime industry. Plus the lack of U.S. ships in international shipping adds costs to moving products. Those costs are added to the products we buy. There apparently is a stranglehold on this industry...which if loosened & allowed to grow...would be good for the economy.

 

[Swabs]

I really don't understand America's problem with the idea of Health Care, regardless of higher taxes, the fact is that in every single country that has a halfway decent Health Care system (Because lets face it, the NHS over here isn't too great.) also just so happens to have a better quality of life.

 

[Iced Dog]

Yeah, I think it's long overdue, though I'm curious about the specifics. I look at it as a safety net if your employer doesn't offer benefits...better than going bankrupt over medical bills, or being refused coverage because, shock, you're actually sick and need treatment. Obama said nobody would be turned down due to pre-existing conditions, and that it would basically be the same healthcare that members of Congress get...whatever that is, I'm sure it decent.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

I don't get why people feel the need to compare wives, I personally don't give a shit.

IMO, Obama's wife is a "See You Next Tuesday". If you're going to go out & hit the road in support of your husband's campaign, talk out of your ass, and then have Obama step in and say the wife criticisms are off limits, well, that's bullshit. Not to mention EVERY single time I've seen her, she looks pissed off. She needs to take a dinner plate sized Midol and STFU if she can't handle the heat. As for why I care, no matter what, she will have some "influence" if her hubby gets the nod to be president. McCain's wife outclasses her by a long shot..

They need to elect a single dude/dudette for president. I'd like to see someone with a different take on all this "family" shit. And don't get me wrong, I'm NOT against people who have families, just the ones that keep popping out kids when they know they can't afford them, and I'm tired of having to pay a share for them. There are PLENTY of single as well as married people (with no kids) struggling just as much, if not more, as ones with families, yet you never hear about them, nor are there any directives specifically for them. Once again, JMHFO.....

 

[Swabs]

Personally I think that the way that a candidates religion, background and family are more important to American voters, than intelligence, policies and ideaology. Is a serious problem.

One the differences I've noticed between UK and US politics (not saying UK politics is great at all though ) is that the candidates actual ideas (ie: What they are actually going to do in a position of power), intelligence and political ability is the basis for most voters decisions. Religion, family and background are practically insignificant when choosing a good Prime Minister.